I don't think STV is that terrible

[Sindatur]

What's an STV, and how do you avoid catching one?

I don't think any of the much maligned films are are as horrible as they are made out to be, I haven't seen NEmesis all the way through, but, the half I did see, I found to be enjoyable enough, and I have definitely seen much worse movie than TFF, Insurrection and Nemesis. And, I have to agree, TMP isn't very exciting for me. One day I'll give it another chance, but, I think the comparisons to 2001 are apt, and for me that's not a good thing (I've tried 5 or 6 times to watch 2001, and there's just nothing in the first half hour to engage my interest, and I completely understand there are people who think 2001 is an amazing picture)

 

[gottacook]

This thread should be required reading before every young person's confirmation or bar/bat mitzvah. You cannot be called and addressed as an adult until you realize and publicly admit how crappy ST V is.

The idea has merit, but my own children are about this age and it's difficult enough to get them to watch good Star Trek.

(Naturally, the mention of these topics together brings to mind the Frasier episode about his son's bar mitzvah, wherein Frasier finds himself on the bima proudly speaking what turns out to be transliterated Klingon and not Hebrew.)

I went to the theater and saw ST V in 1989, and that has remained the only time I've seen it whole - whereas I've avoided seeing Nemesis entirely, having heard the whole thing (at listentoamovie.com) and deciding that the few stills I'd seen would suffice, thanks very much.

 

[susanmary428]

So this is my first post on this board, and let me say first, that from reading all the threads that I have, I REALLY enjoy all the discussions.

Having said that, I'm probably going to start off on the wrong foot by choosing THIS thread to post my first ever reply, but I was motivated by the inference that anyone who doesn't completely hate STV is a child. LoL

I was, in fact, 9 years old in 1989 when this movie was first released, having been brought into the ST world by my father, who has been a fan since watching TOS in its first run. I didn't and still don't think that STV is so horribly worthy of some of the really overly critical comments that have been made in this thread. Perhaps that makes me a less intelligent fan.

Certainly, it is not the BEST of the franchise (I save THAT designation for TWOK). Perhaps in the official and financial sense, it was a flop, as was previously stated. Perhaps in the area of SFX, things went wrong. But I enjoy watching it. The chemistry between "the big 3" in this film was top notch, having been amiss (IMO) in the prior 3 movies due to Spock's not being quite himself, so to speak. Did I laugh when Scotty knocked himself cold? Yeah, I sure did. And from time to time, I get a strange look when I say we need "marshmelons" for the s'mores.

So, to be sure, STV is not the "Citizen Kane" of films. But appreciate it for what it is: a light, fun movie that, if nothing else, helps us to escape the 21st century for about 90 minutes.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

5 reasons Star Trek V isn’t all that bad

an article from yesterday:
‘God’ help me: 5 reasons Star Trek V isn’t all that bad

and something I saw last week but I haven't seen Prometheus yet so I didn't want to read it yet.

'Prometheus': What Does 'Prometheus' Have In Common With 'Star Trek V'? (And 24 Other Urgent Questions)

enjoy.

 

[Uxi]

How much of that was actually direction vs production and writing?

I'll put it in another way. Let's say Shatner did have a bigger production budget, Sean Connery as Sybok and his three transitions that cost a million dollars a piece. Would that have made this movie better? I highly doubt it. Paramount being cheap on Shatner is not the issue as to why the film is problematic. The problems are what Shatner brought to the table in both the story and his direction. Nothing about the effects work breaks the film, it just makes the low production quality more obvious. The story and the direction can overcome low budgets and tight production values.

Shatner with a bigger budget still faces a writer's strike given the timing. A less skimpy production might be willing to work around it, though. It would certainly have the writing closer to what he wanted (which is a more angelic/demonic creatures than rather than "rockmen," if not an entire Dante's Inferno style movie. The SFX would most certainly have been better with a larger budget.

I'm just saying as far as dialogue, cameras, the shots, you know the actual direction, which wasn't actually all that bad, would have doubtfully been worse.

 

[Maurice]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the script doesn't know what it's about and no amount of ramped up visual effects would have saved it or improved it.

 

[Stewey]

STV is im my view grossly underrated. For sure there are some problems with the special effects, but for me the film's core was the Kirk/Spock/McCoy relationship and was its most defining feature. There was more character development and heart put into that film than the TNG movies put together.

I don't rate it as higly as the ST2/3/4 trilogy but I would certainly rate it above all of the TNG movies and absolutely above that other movie from 09.

 

[R. Star]

Really the concept of Star Trek V is quite amusing and gives you valuable insight into Shatner's ego. Kirk has become so big and legendary in Shatner's mind that the only villain concievable to compete with Kirk is God.

 

[Sulu]

I also like the cut scene of Kirk's space/sky dive. I thought that was really cool.

This is a deleted scene from Generations I believe.

Lokai of Cheron, Do you like egg soup?

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

I also like the cut scene of Kirk's space/sky dive. I thought that was really cool.

This is a deleted scene from Generations I believe.

Lokai of Cheron, Do you like egg soup?

No, but based on your posts - I'd guess your diet is made up largely of sugar, red meat and saturated fat.

 

[sonak]

I also like the cut scene of Kirk's space/sky dive. I thought that was really cool.

This is a deleted scene from Generations I believe.

Lokai of Cheron, Do you like egg soup?

you're kind of a one-joke comedian, huh?

 

[Amasov]

Jeez, this thread is still alive and kicking?

 

[Jeffery_Tubes]

How can STV be the worst movie of the decade?? Jaws: The Revenge easily beats it.

 

[Garrovick]

I enjoyed each and every one of the ST movies, but I think V is the one that could be improved the most with some re-editing along with a complete re-working of the special effects. It will probably never happen, but I'd love to see it get a re-working similar to what was done for ST:TMP.

One effect I wouldn't change, though - that shot of the Enterprise-A hanging in front of the Moon near the beginning of the film is absolutely gorgeous.

 

[CoveTom]

Also, the cloud tank effects, which are what initially sold Bennett and Shatner on using Ferren for the effects, have always been favorites of mine.

 

[R. Star]

I enjoyed each and every one of the ST movies, but I think V is the one that could be improved the most with some re-editing along with a complete re-working of the special effects. It will probably never happen, but I'd love to see it get a re-working similar to what was done for ST:TMP.

One effect I wouldn't change, though - that shot of the Enterprise-A hanging in front of the Moon near the beginning of the film is absolutely gorgeous.

Putting flashier graphics into the movie isn't going to fix the fundamental flaws. That's the equivilent of saying if you put a better cover on a book, it'll make the content better.

Really the effects in STV weren't the problem at all. They were good at the time and certainly still are fine today. The over all problem was the plot that was flawed beyond correcting.

Sybok is probably the strangest villain ever. So he brainwashes people by sharing their pain? What the heck does that even mean? I mean if he put put a hand on their face Vulcan mind meld style and declared them brainwashed, that would be absurd and make more sense.

Then you have God. This is really revealing of Shatner's mindset of Kirk. He's beaten every villain concievable, that the only option to stand up for the immortal figure Kirk is in his own mind is to put Kirk up against God. And God even ends up dying.

The Klingon bit was cliche, but nicely done and carried the movie more than the "search for God' bit. But overall to fix this movie, you'd really have to throw away the script and completely rewrite it. With Sybok and "God" being the two main antagonists, you're just bound for a silly movie.

 

[gottacook]

Sybok is probably the strangest villain ever. So he brainwashes people by sharing their pain? What the heck does that even mean?

Well, I admit I never thought about it before, but it means Sybok is essentially a goal-oriented, non-mute, bearded version of Gem from "The Empath." Which sheds light on why he's a very strange "villain" indeed.

I thought "God" didn't end up dying but simply remained trapped...?

All in all, this discussion gives me another excuse to mention (as I probably do about once a year on one thread or another) the absolutely great two-word headline given to a review of ST V in the alt-weekly City Pages (Minneapolis): Dammit, Jim

 

[sonak]

Sybok is probably the strangest villain ever. So he brainwashes people by sharing their pain? What the heck does that even mean?

Well, I admit I never thought about it before, but it means Sybok is essentially a goal-oriented, non-mute, bearded version of Gem from "The Empath." Which sheds light on why he's a very strange "villain" indeed.

I thought "God" didn't end up dying but simply remained trapped...?

All in all, this discussion gives me another excuse to mention (as I probably do about once a year on one thread or another) the absolutely great two-word headline given to a review of ST V in the alt-weekly City Pages (Minneapolis): Dammit, Jim

The whole "mutiny" storyline is a mess. Shatner wanted to have Kirk stand alone as the crew betrayed him, yet wanted to keep Sybok a more complex character than just a straight villain.

So he doesn't brainwash, he just performs therapy. So it just makes the crew look like voluntary traitors instead of brainwashed victims.

An obvious compromise would have been revealed that Sybok's technique DOES brainwash, but have him be unaware of that, and think that his followers are joining him voluntarily.


Except Spock and McCoy's resistance to it would ruin that, too. Ah well.

 

[Maurice]

Really the effects in STV weren't the problem at all. They were good at the time and certainly still are fine today. The over all problem was the plot that was flawed beyond correcting.

They're not THE problem, but they are A problem. The spaceship shots were NOT good at the time, and they are not good now. Ferren's crew had problems with the motion control camera and couldn't get the shutter to work properly during motion control moves, so they effectively shot most of the few model shots they did stop motion fashion, which is why the image strobes staccato-like in shots like when the BOP swoops in or when the shuttle whooshes past the camera on the planet. In some shots of the Enterprise what you're seeing is a still image of the ship being scaled optically (given away by the fact that the perspective never changes). And in other shots they did a small camera move on the model and then added additional motion in the optical printing stage, but the ships appear pasted into the scene because of this.

As such most of the spaceship shots are rubbish with a few notable exceptions.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I love ST V...its a fun popcorn trek movie.....just switch off any enjoy the ride.

I even enjoy Nemesis these days, which when released bored me to tears....but as the years continue to pass i think nostalgia makes these movies a lot better....well for me anyway.