I don't get it.

[kimc]

All of which come from life experance, none of which Kes had. .

According to human standards. Kes is an Ocampa and was considered an adult by their standards. Expecting her to process experiences the same way as a human does is losing sight of that, imo.

but where was she getting those experiences from and when? She had her second birthday in the second season of Voyager, so she had already spent almost a full year there, that means that she only had a year on her own planet, not a life time to experience things

A year is perceived differently by an Ocampa who lives only nine years as compared to a human who can live 90. That's my point...

 

[exodus]

Passion is what makes a character interesting. Nobody wants to watch a dull character who is perfect all the time. And a character that lived underground with no perception of anything but her own sheltered community, to suddenly be hurled into so many unique situations and know exactly what to do in all of them is incredibly unbelievable.

Bingo!

Neelix who had many life experances was fasinated by the replicator and transporter the first time he saw/used him. Kes, who's never seen anything other than her underground world was never once in awe or curious about anything on the ship. She wasn't even surprised by a man popping out of thin air.(The EMH)

That doesn't make any sense.

Why ?
Perhaps the Ocampa have a rich literature that speculates about such aspects, and if anything, Kes spent several months as a servant to the Kazon (and was abused as well).

Also, if you were to suddenly be transported away to a starship by aliens that has a matter-energy converter and solid holograms, would you be popping your eyes out just because that society is more technologically advanced?
Kes was still thought to have been essentially a child back then (ok ... a teenager) ... and kids as such could be very open minded.
The Voyager environment would be new to her yes, but the Caretaker from her perspective was extremely powerful entity of which she knew.
Also we don't know the full background of the Ocampa race and what their culture is like.
Kes was a type of individual that was virtually speculating about aspects that her friends didn't want or dare contemplate on.
It's all a matter of individual perspective and open-mindedness.

Not everyone has to scream 'WOW' at a novelty or a far more sophisticated technology.

We get excited over the latest Digital camera, Hi-Defination TV, thrill at new special effects in movies. Many Trek fans logical and not wish many of the technology in Trek was real, so yes a large major majority would be in jaw dropping awe of a soceity more technologically advanced. I believe even "Future's End" covered that scenario.

Children are open-minded? I'm sorry I don't wish to be condecending, but I'm going to guess you've never actually raised any children have you?


The Ocampa live underground and have no ships, when did they ever see the Caretaker?

 

[Mrs Paris]

According to human standards. Kes is an Ocampa and was considered an adult by their standards. Expecting her to process experiences the same way as a human does is losing sight of that, imo.

but where was she getting those experiences from and when? She had her second birthday in the second season of Voyager, so she had already spent almost a full year there, that means that she only had a year on her own planet, not a life time to experience things

A year is perceived differently by an Ocampa who lives only nine years as compared to a human who can live 90. That's my point...

yeah, that's true, but the actualy amount of information learned is still the same. Even though it's been shown that Kes is smart and a quick learner, her perception of time doesn't change the amount of information that she has learned

 

[Mrs Paris]

Bingo!

Neelix who had many life experances was fasinated by the replicator and transporter the first time he saw/used him. Kes, who's never seen anything other than her underground world was never once in awe or curious about anything on the ship. She wasn't even surprised by a man popping out of thin air.(The EMH)

That doesn't make any sense.

Why ?
Perhaps the Ocampa have a rich literature that speculates about such aspects, and if anything, Kes spent several months as a servant to the Kazon (and was abused as well).

Also, if you were to suddenly be transported away to a starship by aliens that has a matter-energy converter and solid holograms, would you be popping your eyes out just because that society is more technologically advanced?
Kes was still thought to have been essentially a child back then (ok ... a teenager) ... and kids as such could be very open minded.
The Voyager environment would be new to her yes, but the Caretaker from her perspective was extremely powerful entity of which she knew.
Also we don't know the full background of the Ocampa race and what their culture is like.
Kes was a type of individual that was virtually speculating about aspects that her friends didn't want or dare contemplate on.
It's all a matter of individual perspective and open-mindedness.

Not everyone has to scream 'WOW' at a novelty or a far more sophisticated technology.

We get excited over the latest Digital camera, Hi-Defination TV, thrill at new special effects in movies. Many Trek fans logical and not wish many of the technology in Trek was real, so yes a large major majority would be in jaw dropping awe of a soceity more technologically advanced. I believe even "Future's End" covered that scenario.

Children are open-minded? I'm sorry I don't wish to be condecending, but I'm going to guess you've never actually raised any children have you?


The Ocampa live underground and have no ships, when did they ever see the Caretaker?

they only saw those big screen tvs of his

 

[exodus]

According to human standards. Kes is an Ocampa and was considered an adult by their standards. Expecting her to process experiences the same way as a human does is losing sight of that, imo.

but where was she getting those experiences from and when? She had her second birthday in the second season of Voyager, so she had already spent almost a full year there, that means that she only had a year on her own planet, not a life time to experience things

A year is perceived differently by an Ocampa who lives only nine years as compared to a human who can live 90. That's my point...

Life experances don't fall out of thin air, you have to experance them.

Reading about Egypt isn't the same as going there. Things you read don't always equate or are very different that an actual real experance.

What life experance do you gian living underground in a closed society?

 

[Mrs Paris]

but where was she getting those experiences from and when? She had her second birthday in the second season of Voyager, so she had already spent almost a full year there, that means that she only had a year on her own planet, not a life time to experience things

A year is perceived differently by an Ocampa who lives only nine years as compared to a human who can live 90. That's my point...

Life experances don't fall out of thin air, you have to experance them.

Reading about Egypt isn't the same as going there. Things you read don't always equate or are very different that an actual real experance.

and where would they even get any literature on the "outside world"? The caretaker didn't give them that information. Kes should have been in awe even at Voyager itself

 

[exodus]

A year is perceived differently by an Ocampa who lives only nine years as compared to a human who can live 90. That's my point...

Life experances don't fall out of thin air, you have to experance them.

Reading about Egypt isn't the same as going there. Things you read don't always equate or are very different that an actual real experance.

and where would they even get any literature on the "outside world"? The caretaker didn't give them that information. Kes should have been in awe even at Voyager itself

Word!

At any ship for that matter.

 

[kimc]

Even though it's been shown that Kes is smart and a quick learner, her perception of time doesn't change the amount of information that she has learned

I'm not sure what quantity has to do with quality. Some people can read "War and Peace" and come away thinking it's an adventure story while others will come away with a lot more. One person can learn nothing from a conversation while another can figure out what makes the people involved in it tick.

What life experance do you gian living underground in a closed society?

You still have people you need to live and get along with. However, that wasn't enough for Kes which is why she escaped to the surface and ended up doing much more living than your average Ocampa.

The point I'm trying to make here is that to an Ocampa, one year is the same as ten years to a human. A being that could live thousands of years would probably regard us as children because how much growing up can we do in a few decades? I think that is the view many have of Kes because it's difficult for us to comprehend a lifespan of nine years.

 

[exodus]

The point I'm trying to make here is that to an Ocampa, one year is the same as ten years to a human. A being that could live thousands of years would probably regard us as children because how much growing up can we do in a few decades? I think that is the view many have of Kes because it's difficult for us to comprehend a lifespan of nine years.

I get your point, unfortunate you're missing mine.

Age has nothing to do with knowledge/Life Experance. Someone 21 years old and has traveled the world would have more life experances than someone 40 who's never ventured outside a small rural town. Someone 50 living in Queens, NY (The most densely populated multi-cultural place within the US) would have more life experance & knowledge of other cultures than someone 18 who lives in in a town in Ohio populated only by one race.

Kes has no experance of life outside her "city" or culture regardless of her age by anyones standards.

 

[Mrs Paris]

The point I'm trying to make here is that to an Ocampa, one year is the same as ten years to a human. A being that could live thousands of years would probably regard us as children because how much growing up can we do in a few decades? I think that is the view many have of Kes because it's difficult for us to comprehend a lifespan of nine years.

I get your point, unfortunate you're missing mine.

Age has nothing to do with knowledge/Life Experance. Someone 21 years old and has traveled the world would have more life experances than someone 40 who's never ventured outside a small rural town. Someone 50 living in Queens, NY (The most densely populated multi-cultural place within the US) would have more life experance & knowledge of other cultures than someone 18 who lives in in a town in Ohio populated only by one race.

Kes has no experance of life outside her "city" or culture regardless of her age by anyones standards.

good example

 

[Lynx]

Passion is what makes a character interesting. Nobody wants to watch a dull character who is perfect all the time. And a character that lived underground with no perception of anything but her own sheltered community, to suddenly be hurled into so many unique situations and know exactly what to do in all of them is incredibly unbelievable.

Bingo!

Neelix who had many life experances was fasinated by the replicator and transporter the first time he saw/used him. Kes, who's never seen anything other than her underground world was never once in awe or curious about anything on the ship. She wasn't even surprised by a man popping out of thin air.(The EMH)

That doesn't make any sense.

Only because we didn't see Kes in awe or curious about anything on the ship doesn't have to mean that she wasn't impressed or surprised. If you watch "Caretaker" again and watch the scene where Janeway shuts down The Doctor's program, Kes looks very surprised.

As a person, she is very calm and logic and she also has a certain ability to learn very quick and adapt to new situations. That might be a reason why she quickly aceepted, understood and learned about the technology and people on the ship. besides that, the Ocampa underground city was actually a high-tech society too.

Note also that it was more than one month between the events in "Caretaker" (Stardate 48315.6=Monday 26 April 2371) and "Parallax (Stardate 48439.70=Thursday 10 June) so I guess that she spent that time learning about the ship, the technology and the people on board.

 

[Mrs Paris]

was it that long? It seems like it was a few days

 

[Akiraprise]

Only because we didn't see Kes in awe or curious about anything on the ship doesn't have to mean that she wasn't impressed or surprised. If you watch "Caretaker" again and watch the scene where Janeway shuts down The Doctor's program, Kes looks very surprised.

As a person, she is very calm and logic and she also has a certain ability to learn very quick and adapt to new situations. That might be a reason why she quickly aceepted, understood and learned about the technology and people on the ship. besides that, the Ocampa underground city was actually a high-tech society too.

I agree. The argument that Kes should have been falling down and worshiping the very deck plates she was walking on in Voyager is silly. Kes was a naturally curious person. She wanted to learn and experience new things. This is why she wanted to go to the surface of her world instead of being content in her high-tech underground Utopia.

 

[exodus]

was it that long? It seems like it was a few days

Yes, actually is was that long.

With Voyager, if you can understand Stardates you'll discover many of the events happen weeks apart. The Borg baby didn't disappear over night, it had been a few days inbetween when they found it to the next ep.

 

[Mrs Paris]

was it that long? It seems like it was a few days

Yes, actually is was that long.

With Voyager, if you can understand Stardates you'll discover many of the events happen weeks apart. The Borg baby didn't disappear over night, it had been a few days inbetween when they found it to the next ep.

I also understand production saying they didn't realy pay atention to which stardates they assigned to episodes

 

[exodus]

I agree. The argument that Kes should have been falling down and worshiping the very deck plates she was walking on in Voyager is silly.

When you take things to such extremes of course it is.

Fortunately, nobody is taking about falling to anyone knees and worshipping technology. How completely stupid does that sound?

People were fascinated by the automoblie when first created.
Men to this day still find Mustangs beautiful cars.

People were fascinated by the iPod and it became the new hot gizmo to have.
What would an Amish person think of that type of technology?

Don't sit and tell me if some alien came down and gave you a device like a replicator, you would be amazed by it?

So why wouldn't Kes?

 

[Akiraprise]

Neelix who had many life experances was fasinated by the replicator and transporter the first time he saw/used him. Kes, who's never seen anything other than her underground world was never once in awe or curious about anything on the ship. She wasn't even surprised by a man popping out of thin air.(The EMH)

I'm referring to this post of yours. Kes didn't need to be in awe of Voyager's advanced technology. She came from a fairly advanced society herself and seemed to have a firm grasp on technology. Plus she was naturally curious about things.

Don't take me so literally exodus. Damn...

 

[Lynx]

I agree. The argument that Kes should have been falling down and worshiping the very deck plates she was walking on in Voyager is silly.

When you take things to such extremes of course it is.

Fortunately, nobody is taking about falling to anyone knees and worshipping technology. How completely stupid does that sound?

People were fascinated by the automoblie when first created.
Men to this day still find Mustangs beautiful cars.

People were fascinated by the iPod and it became the new hot gizmo to have.
What would an Amish person think of that type of technology?

Don't sit and tell me if some alien came down and gave you a device like a replicator, you would be amazed by it?

So why wouldn't Kes?

I'm sure that she was excited about many things on the ship.

But as a calm and rational person, she didn't jump around over it.

And as I've stated before, only because we didn't see her excitement doesn't mean that she wasn't exited over over it.

 

[Mrs Paris]

but it would have been interesting to see some reaction

 

[kimc]

Age has nothing to do with knowledge/Life Experance. Someone 21 years old and has traveled the world would have more life experances than someone 40 who's never ventured outside a small rural town. Someone 50 living in Queens, NY (The most densely populated multi-cultural place within the US) would have more life experance & knowledge of other cultures than someone 18 who lives in in a town in Ohio populated only by one race.

It sounds like we're in agreement here.

Kes has no experance of life outside her "city" or culture regardless of her age by anyones standards.

This part had me confused. Kes left her city and was living among the Kazon for a while where she would have seen spaceships, etc. She then met Neelix sho also had a spaceship and some advanced technology and probably told her stories of the places he had been. All this happened BEFORE she finally ended up on Voyager.

In Ocampan terms Kes is the 21 year old who traveled the world in your example and yes she would have acquired a lot of experience despite her age.

What are we arguing about again?