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I don't care anymore, and neither does anyone else.

Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I don't feel lied to at all. In fact, to me, it looks like J.J. is taking great care to make something innovative, and yet be considerate of the reasonable Trek fans. The ones who want everything their way aren't considered, because nothing short of 100% compliance will be accepted. That being said, I look forward to the new movie, and for those of you who are already complaining about how bad it's going to tank, then don't go see it. Sit around and feel angry, nursing those bitter feelings of rejection. The movie doesn't need you. If it's good, it will bring in many new fans and make lots of money. If it's bad, then it won't do well. Either way, those of you who are throwing temper tantrums will have no effect over it whatsoever. But if it makes you feel any better, trek fans will be sad if it fails, so that should make you happy. Misery loves company.


J.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I don't feel lied to at all. In fact, to me, it looks like J.J. is taking great care to make something innovative, and yet be considerate of the reasonable Trek fans. The ones who want everything their way aren't considered, because nothing short of 100% compliance will be accepted. That being said, I look forward to the new movie, and for those of you who are already complaining about how bad it's going to tank, then don't go see it. Sit around and feel angry, nursing those bitter feelings of rejection. The movie doesn't need you. If it's good, it will bring in many new fans and make lots of money. If it's bad, then it won't do well. Either way, those of you who are throwing temper tantrums will have no effect over it whatsoever. But if it makes you feel any better, trek fans will be sad if it fails, so that should make you happy. Misery loves company.


J.
Well put, J, very well put indeed. I'm alarmed and saddened by people like Robert April who I can almost see rubbing their hands together in sinister delight, hoping for this to tank because they feel as though their own personal views on Trek history have been violated by a few design updates. Those are the kind of Trekkies that give others a bad name.

Get a grip, broaden your perspectives and the limits of possibility in your minds, and give this movie a shot. Its not going to hurt you, nor is it going to take anything away from old Trek or any alternate backstory or technical details you may have fleshed-out in your minds.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I don't feel lied to at all. In fact, to me, it looks like J.J. is taking great care to make something innovative, and yet be considerate of the reasonable Trek fans. The ones who want everything their way aren't considered, because nothing short of 100% compliance will be accepted. That being said, I look forward to the new movie, and for those of you who are already complaining about how bad it's going to tank, then don't go see it. Sit around and feel angry, nursing those bitter feelings of rejection. The movie doesn't need you. If it's good, it will bring in many new fans and make lots of money. If it's bad, then it won't do well. Either way, those of you who are throwing temper tantrums will have no effect over it whatsoever. But if it makes you feel any better, trek fans will be sad if it fails, so that should make you happy. Misery loves company.


J.
Well put, J, very well put indeed. I'm alarmed and saddened by people like Robert April who I can almost see rubbing their hands together in sinister delight, hoping for this to tank because they feel as though their own personal views on Trek history have been violated by a few design updates. Those are the kind of Trekkies that give others a bad name.

Get a grip, broaden your perspectives and the limits of possibility in your minds, and give this movie a shot. Its not going to hurt you, nor is it going to take anything away from old Trek or any alternate backstory or technical details you may have fleshed-out in your minds.

Kudos to both of you.
I couldn't agree more and couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I don't feel lied to at all. In fact, to me, it looks like J.J. is taking great care to make something innovative, and yet be considerate of the reasonable Trek fans. The ones who want everything their way aren't considered, because nothing short of 100% compliance will be accepted. That being said, I look forward to the new movie, and for those of you who are already complaining about how bad it's going to tank, then don't go see it. Sit around and feel angry, nursing those bitter feelings of rejection. The movie doesn't need you. If it's good, it will bring in many new fans and make lots of money. If it's bad, then it won't do well. Either way, those of you who are throwing temper tantrums will have no effect over it whatsoever. But if it makes you feel any better, trek fans will be sad if it fails, so that should make you happy. Misery loves company.


J.
Well put, J, very well put indeed. I'm alarmed and saddened by people like Robert April who I can almost see rubbing their hands together in sinister delight, hoping for this to tank because they feel as though their own personal views on Trek history have been violated by a few design updates. Those are the kind of Trekkies that give others a bad name.

Get a grip, broaden your perspectives and the limits of possibility in your minds, and give this movie a shot. Its not going to hurt you, nor is it going to take anything away from old Trek or any alternate backstory or technical details you may have fleshed-out in your minds.

How dare you both to bring reason into this rant-thread!!



I agree with you though :D :D
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

^Yeah, very well said, you two! I completely agree.

And I just can't stop wondering what these people were expecting from this movie...and I am astounded that a few still images and vague plot rumors are causing such upset. We barely have any idea of what the movie is even about! How can anyone claim to say that it isn't Star Trek?
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I tell you, the brightness of the film so far has been taking some getting use to, especially the bridge, but I'm liking it so far. It's very...different, but in a good way.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

It's too early to judge a film based on a few images. But I'm still looking forward to it. So what if the bridge doesn't look like it did in the 1960's.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

Then don't see it. Simple is that. Whatever you may say this film needs to be practical and appeal to everyone to succeed. No amount of burying your head in the sand is going to change it.

RAMA
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

It's the fanbase that goes out and sees a movie multiple times. A casual audience member only sees it once, if at all.

Ah, yes. The same people who didn't bother to see Nemesis once and who progressively tuned out during the runs of DS9, Voyager and Enterprise? I dare submit that the Star Trek 'fanbase' are neither very predictable, nor very reliable.

That's why franchises live and die by their fanbases. Why Paramount thinks Star Trek is somehow immune to this is anyone's guess, but in a not-very-long time from now, they're going to be taught a very cruel lesson of life.

Star Trek already died by its fanbase. Twice, in fact. At the end of season 3 of TOS because people stopped watching and then later with Enterprise because nobody was watching in the first place.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

Well I for one will be going to see this, the pics have made me more excited. And while I will not flame anyone for their opinion (unless they toss personal attacks my way) I think the trailer will tell more than a handfull of pictures.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I feel like the only diehard TOS-head that is actually EXCITED about this movie.

I am in love with TOS. I loved DS9, but TNG was meh, and VOY and ENT were BIG thumbs down from me.

Mariner, you know I love you buddy. You're one of the few people that usually comments on and likes my goofy SFB art.

But seriously, what were you expecting? They were never going to re-use the TOS sets as-is. We have to be realistic. It's going to be a visual reboot at least to a certain extent. I will be happy if they merely stay true to the main characters. I don't think it's logical at all to judge the entire movie on a few sparse production stills. I really feel like everything needs to be viewed in its intended context.

Frankly, the design for the Kelvin gives me hope. I was basically expecting an Enterprise(The series)-style mangling of design. I still wouldn't have complained about that, if the story and characters were good. But the fact that Kelvin looks like it could fit in the TOS era makes me optimistic.

And you know, even if this movie sucks giant ass, we will still have our beloved TOS to look back fondly on. That's enough for me.
 
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Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I can't wait to see this on opening day. The more I see of the visuals, the better I like it. :)
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I can't wait to see this on opening day. The more I see of the visuals, the better I like it. :)

Anyone that follows Abrams style and is currently watching the series Fringe which he is producing will understand that he'll bring a whole new 'style' to Star Trek - much more edgy, likely more real, and with characters that are multi-dimensional.

I am as well looking forward to seeing the film.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

Its funny, every single Star Trek incarnation has updated the visuals. Hell, even TOS changed from time to time. The Cage doesn't look anything like WNMHGB, which in turn looks quite different from the rest of the series. TAS added turbolifts, as Roddenberry realised that having one set of doors might be problematic if they broke.

TMP
updated the look again. Why didn't they leave it the same? Why not keep the same sets if they could?

I just don't know why people get so hung up on the visuals. Of Course they matter. To a point.

Those that created Star Trek did the best they could with the technology they had at the time.

Simply put:

If Roddenberry and Jeffries were still around today, and were in charge of a multi-million dollar motion picture, would the Enterprise and her bridge look exactly the same as it did 40 years ago?

Of course not :lol:

Most of it only looked that way due to budgetary constraints. The shuttlecraft wasn't supposed to look like that, the klingons weren't supposed to look like that. As long as the spirit and heart of Star Trek are there (which, I'll freely admit remains to be seen. Going to have to wait until the movie comes out for that one), they I'll be happy.

And, I think, will most Star Trek fans. :D
 
However, the recent photos and EW article confirm what I've suspected most about this film and about JJ's involvement: No one involved in this film believes in any part of "Star Trek," from the original to it's later spin-offs.

I know you did not intend it as such, but I find this a contradictory statement. The fact that this movie exists at all shows that quite a few people believe in it, not the least of which is the studio that is putting a fairly large sum of money behind it. J.J. Abrams is an avowed Star Wars fan, and yet he found the interest in it to take on a project that is taking up a good chunk of two years of his life. Many quotes form Zach Quinto have shown he is very much interested in the role of Spock (and lobbied for it). Other actors such as Simon Pegg have stated they want to do justice to the original roles as set down by the cast of TOS without relying on mimicking their predecessors. All this sounds like a lot of "believing" in Star Trek to me.

This film is coming across as nothing more than an excuse to re-use the name, iconography and the pull of a "modern" director and producer to get the franchise to be "in" again.

Sure, and what exactly is wrong with that? In order to be successful, all franchises must appeal to a current audience to grow. Adam West's "Batman" ruled the school in the 60's, but it's "The Dark Knight" that ruled this past summer. Such a success often applies just what you said, namely: a known brand name, iconic imagery, current Hollywood talent. Batman got Nolan, we got JJ. May JJ's success mirror that of Nolan's, I say.

Why then, I ask, does this appear to be exactly like every "modern" sci-fi and pop action movie that's been coming out as of late?
I cannot think of one sci-fi movie out right now that shares a premise similar to what "Star Trek '09" is promising. What I have come to expect based on the articles and images released thus far is an adventure set in the "Star Trek" universe of starships and the Federation that focuses on how the crew of the original series came together before the original five year mission. Among current scifi movies (using the definition rather loosely) I can think of are "Death Race", "Babylon A.D.", "The Dark Knight", "Iron Man", "The Incredible Hulk" and "The Day the Earth Stood Still". Which "modern" sci-fi movies are you equating "Star Trek" to?

Why did you take so much time to create a respectful and imaginative take on Kirk's uniforms, and yet throw everything else out and instead create an environment that doesn't appear as if they should inhabit the same universe?
In my view, the photos we have seen of "Star Trek" so far show that it is no more of a departure from what we've seen before as TOS to TMP or even TMP to ST2 or STIV to TNG. Each incarnation of Trek has managed to take certain iconic imagery, but then put it's own spin on it. This one is no different. To me, all the photos we've seen so far look like they could easily be part of the Trek universe we have come to know and love. Saucer and nacelle ships? Check. A round bridge with a railing and center viewscreen? Check. Nice big center seat? Check. Of the imagery we have seen so far, I don't find any of it outside the possibility of existing in the universe we have seen in the past.

Why bother with keeping any of the tropes of the original (humanoid aliens, "clean" sets and vehicle design, colored tunics, miniskirts) when you outright claim that this isn't going to be anything like what has come before, except in "spirit?"
I might be misinterpreting your statement, but I think you are taking their statements out of context. What they are saying is that they are respecting some aspects of Trek while presenting something new that can be successful. This is the same concept as TNG managed to respect the ideals of a Utopian civilization, optimism and exploration while setting its own visual style.

Why do you outright proclaim that this "isn't for Star Trek fans" and is instead for "movie fans?"
The two are not mutually exclusive are they? I believe the best way to read that line is that "Star Trek" isn't just for hardcore Star Trek fans, but rather for a mass audience - something it has needed to be for a very long time now. That's how I interpret the intent anyhow.

I know that hordes of people are going to blast this response as the reason that Abrams made this film the way he did,
No, I believe he made it the way he did because he felt that Trek needed to be revived using a fresh vision. Paramount tapped him and he said "Ok guys, this is how we're going to do it." and they agreed. From an exciting story to a new visual style, he is trying to bring new things to the table in hopes of making this a success. It has nothing to do with fans complaining on a BBS IMO.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

I feel like the only diehard TOS-head that is actually EXCITED about this movie.

I'm with you. I've loved TOS since "Man Trap" premiered in 1966. I liked TNG during the Roddenberry years, but thought it became erratic, and lost its way after that. Thought DS9 was pretty good for TV sci-fi, but could never accept it as Star Trek. Voyager and Enterprise aren't even worth mentioning.

As Trekkies go, I'm strictly a TOS-centric guy... and I can't wait to see Abram's film. The only thing I've seen that's given me pause is the new bridge design, and even it is growing on me.

Plus, I've got a feeling that there's an in-story reason it is so different from the classic TOS bridge. Maybe Old Spock isn't back in time "setting things right", but intentionally fucking with the established timeline, so as to prevent some truly cataclysmic future event?
 
When you're producing something that is part of a larger franchise, you have an obligation to be true to the rules of that franchise. If you're going in to overturn the entire applecart and start over, you also have an obligation to be upfront about that.

Everyone involved with this project has lied to us, plain and simple.

They said it wasn't going to be a reboot, but those pics, and the plot details that have been revealed to this point, confirm that this thing can't be anything BUT a reboot (unless there's gonna be one big massive reset button hit at the end, in which case, at best, it'll be one big colossal waste of time).

It might get a big opening weekend.

But since this movie consists of one big $150 million middle finger to the long time fans, it's gonna make Speed Racer look like Citizen Kane.

Mark my words, kids, we're talking one big warp driven Butterball turkey coming down the pike.

I'm not feeling lied to at all either...

Here are the only things that have been established by the pictures:
A) The cast is different (Ohs teh Noes!!!!)
B) The uniforms are made of a different fabric and the yellows are really yellows.
C) The bridge no longer looks like a seven year old glued jelly beans to the consoles, and now it looks bright.
D) Nero has no head-ridges, ala TOS.
And E) A ship named the Kelvin, which looks very TOS-ish to me, is getting the crap beaten out of it.

... How exactly are we pulling a large scale, "Fuck you all!" out of this? I don't get it, much like I don't get some of the logic in the "Will it repel old fans?" thread. We're gleaning a lot from a couple of pictures.

You folks want proof that it's "true" enough to the rest of Trek? Nimoy has said multiple times in recent months that he was completely retired from Star Trek, had zero desire to do any more, and when he saw the material for this movie, he decided he wanted to be involved. Does anybody here really think that Nimoy would come out of Trek-retirement for a screw-the-old-fans, do it entirely their own way, random movie that just happens to have the Trek title attached?
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

No one involved in this film believes in any part of "Star Trek," from the original to it's later spin-offs.

Which is why J.J. Abrams said (in the very EW article that you find so disillusioning):

''I think a movie that shows people of various races working together and surviving hundreds of years from now is not a bad message to put out right now...In a world where a movie as incredibly produced as The Dark Knight is raking in gazillions of dollars, Star Trek stands in stark contrast. It was important to me that optimism be cool again.''

With this and his many statements that he considers it important for Trek to be represented as our future and as "real" rather than either the fantasy of "Star Wars" or the increasingly tacky fannish vision of Trek 1.0, Abrams really seems to "get" the essence of Trek far more clearly than a lot of its more vociferous fans.
 
Re: I don't care anymore, and nobody else cares (that I don't)

They've gone out of their way to make this look nothing like any version of Star Trek. I'd be surprised if everything else were the same.

Any version of Star Trek? There goes your argument. You acknowledge Trek has changed (many, many times) over it's history, but this new change is once too many for you?

One more movie ticket for the rest of us.
 
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