I do not like MCU films
- Thread starter Dales
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Batman is like the version of Spider-Man in the current Howard the Duck comics. Anytime he thinks someone he knows is dead or just missing causes him to have an emotional breakdown over the loss of Uncle Ben. One time Howard got kidnapped by aliens and Spidey set up a shrine dedicated to him and refused to leave the spot for a few days.
This could be fun. Now I'll do Bane, and yes, I am imagining Tom Hardy's Bane voice while writing this.
Bane: You know, I recently had quite the engaging conversation with a woman by the name of Martha...
Batman gets in Bane's face
Batman: WHY ARE YOU SAY-
Bane punches Batman, Batman falls to the ground.
Bane: Down, bitch.
Under the cape and cowl is a boy who loves his momma.
Seriously, how did that even convince him that Superman was alright? So what if he had a mother, so does everyone and every living thing. I don't see how this connects. Superman-Martha=Evil Alien Supergod vs Superman+Martha=Future Super BFF.
Is it the name? Did Batman get upset when Martha Stewart went to jail?
Isn't it public knowledge that Superman lived among them his whole life? The military knew and Zod's message mentioned that he had been hiding on Earth. Did Batman just assume he was lurking around and never had a family?
How does any of it make any sense? It's like when Snyder saw the cast list and noticed that Batman's mom had the same name as Superman, he thought it was interesting and crammed it into the script because they had only written the fight scene and the rest of the movie was padding around it.
Seriously, how did that even convince him that Superman was alright? So what if he had a mother, so does everyone and every living thing. I don't see how this connects. Superman-Martha=Evil Alien Supergod vs Superman+Martha=Future Super BFF.
Is it the name? Did Batman get upset when Martha Stewart went to jail?
Isn't it public knowledge that Superman lived among them his whole life? The military knew and Zod's message mentioned that he had been hiding on Earth. Did Batman just assume he was lurking around and never had a family?
How does any of it make any sense? It's like when Snyder saw the cast list and noticed that Batman's mom had the same name as Superman, he thought it was interesting and crammed it into the script because they had only written the fight scene and the rest of the movie was padding around it.
You know someone has lost an argument when he does two things. Using "straw man" tactics and personally attacking his opponent. And you my friend, have done both. It's one thing to use words out of context but it's completely different proposition when you use your quotes as mine! My quote was:
So I already said I liked the Arnim Zola and Alexander Pierce Cold War plot and the Hydra /SHIELD political thriller story line. But by your own admission you HATED that stuff for being "sell-out" and "grounded" stuff because your answer to the above post was this:
You know you've just called Ed Brubaker's entire Captain America comic book run as "sell-out grounded stuff"? Some of the best CA comics: "Winter Soldier" and "The Death of Captain America"! But I doubt you read comics anyway.
People like me have watched CBM for the last 38 years and will continue to watch them. People like me even watch and own 76 year old CBMs. But it's not for millennials like you. People like you should only watch Michael Bay's Transformers movies. They are full of the "wondrous" you like. You know, CG robots (/like TWS' helicarriers) beating the crap out of other CG robots (/helicarriers), that no one cares about.
I know you guys are just trolling but yes Batman would get upset if villains found out his dead mom's name and started taunting him with it. Are you familiar with Batman? Parents being murdered kinda turned him into a superhero.
Simply put, Superman calling for his mom caused an emotional moment for him more than a logical one. Just like his decision to take Superman down is a bit emotional based after all Luthor puts him through, such as bringing up the "you let them die" thing with his parents. If you find the dead parent causing emotions thing a little cheesy then maybe Batman is not for you.
I'm not surprised the internet would turn something like that into a meme. Can't wait to see the jokes when Batgirl is paralysed...
Simply put, Superman calling for his mom caused an emotional moment for him more than a logical one. Just like his decision to take Superman down is a bit emotional based after all Luthor puts him through, such as bringing up the "you let them die" thing with his parents. If you find the dead parent causing emotions thing a little cheesy then maybe Batman is not for you.
I'm not surprised the internet would turn something like that into a meme. Can't wait to see the jokes when Batgirl is paralysed...
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And then you admitted you hated the stuff about the Helicarriers, not "grounded" enough.
Brubaker's stuff had plenty of comic-booky moments in it, it wasn't ashamed of itself.
Get over yourself.
It's a dramatic scene in which Bruce realizes how far he's fallen.
I don't get what's so difficult to understand about that.
Then the Riddler has a go!
Riddler: "Riddle me this, Batman! who was George Washington's wife?"
Batman: "No!"
Riddler: "Who is George Plimpton's daughter?"
Batman: "NO!"
Riddler: "Who led a singing group called The Vandellas?"
Batman: "STOP SAYING HER NAME!"
(Riddler cackles with glee as he runs away...)
Another thing to keep is mind is the way he was pleading for him to help Martha, so it's probably not just the fact that he used the name, but the whole context of it's use.
The Iron Man movies are tech based sci-fi.
The Thors are epic fantasy.
The first Captain America is a period adventure, and the second two are contemporary action thrillers.
The Avengers are sci-fi.
Guardians of the Galaxy is space sci-fi.
Ant-Man is a heist movie.
Doctor Strange is going to be contemporary fantasy.
I'm not really sure what Black Panther will be.
Spider-Man: Homecoming is going to be a high school movie.
I've never felt the MCU movies were at all formulaic. Each movie and series has had a very different look, and style. They're all fairly light fun movies, but other than that very basic feel, they're totally different.
The Iron Man movies are tech based sci-fi.
The Thors are epic fantasy.
The first Captain America is a period adventure, and the second two are contemporary action thrillers.
The Avengers are sci-fi.
Guardians of the Galaxy is space sci-fi.
Ant-Man is a heist movie.
Doctor Strange is going to be contemporary fantasy.
I'm not really sure what Black Panther will be.
Spider-Man: Homecoming is going to be a high school movie.
Can't agree with @JD. The cladding of "heist movie" this and "space sci-fi" that is entirely superficial, and movie-wise I do think the MCU films all have the feeling of coming from the same sausage factory: the way they handle action, conceive of villains, develop (or don't) characters, even the basic colour palettes are broadly similar. It's the fast-food chain model applied to moviemaking wherein the product, notwithstanding minor variations, is reliably good enough to be inoffensive and largely the same across the board, which is what makes it so profitable. Now it's an incredibly proficient chain, obviously. But at the end of the day they're all basically reminiscent of very high-budget, feature-length family-friendly Eighties cartoons.
I don't mind them, but I don't exactly go stampeding to the theatre to see the latest MCU movie, for the same reason I don't get excited about going to McDonald's. In some ways I actually prefer the DCEU; films like BvS or Man of Steel were more uneven than your typical Avengers movie but they also featured distinctive visions -- where death and consequence were part of the picture and drove the stories -- and delivered actual surprises in a way MCU films just don't.
MCU on television is really great, though.
I don't mind them, but I don't exactly go stampeding to the theatre to see the latest MCU movie, for the same reason I don't get excited about going to McDonald's. In some ways I actually prefer the DCEU; films like BvS or Man of Steel were more uneven than your typical Avengers movie but they also featured distinctive visions -- where death and consequence were part of the picture and drove the stories -- and delivered actual surprises in a way MCU films just don't.
MCU on television is really great, though.
I really don't see where in BvS consequences had any effect at all, nor were there any noteworthy surprises other than Superman dying (which was a mostly worthless surprise, since the story effect was minimal - Batman had already made his turn to light - and everyone knows he can't possibly stay dead). Based on what you seem to be describing as the hallmarks of the MCU, it might as well have been a Marvel movie, except for the angry tone and the controversial interpretation of the characters. It certainly was no less cartoony.
They drove the story. Buildings falling on Bruce Wayne's people in Man of Steel. That was what drove the story.
I rather disagree. I certainly hadn't been expecting them to go full-on Death of Superman in their second movie outing. Whether or not they reverse it, well, it's comic books, but it's a distinct difference from the consequence-free violence of MCU films.
And the way the action is filmed and directed, and the structuring of the story, and the themes, and basically everything. What it had in common with a Marvel movie was superheroes, that's it.
I'll disagree on the MCU being a "consequence free zone." I mean, Captain American: Winter Soldier, had overtones of the response to the "Battle of New York" and Civil War came on the heals of Age of Ultron. Even Avengers manage to take some of the larger plot holes of Thor and employ them to great effect.
I think they are doing a decent job, overall, with allowing different events reverberate through the MCU. I'm still waiting and seeing on the DCU.
I think they are doing a decent job, overall, with allowing different events reverberate through the MCU. I'm still waiting and seeing on the DCU.
I guess what I would say is that consequences in the big-screen MCU for me... there's very little in the way of teeth in them. I can watch an MCU movie and laugh along with the quipping heroes and such, but I never feel a moment's actual tension on behalf of any of the characters. We will get to the end without anybody being killed (save the disposable faceless mooks) or even undergoing anything too deeply harrowing, and we know this at the beginning; even GotG's "killing" of Groot is reset -- albeit memorably and hilariously, I'll give them that -- by the end.
(It stands out particularly glaringly in the big screen because Downie's Iron Man has become basically the Avengers' flagship hero... and that character comes built in with a very famous story arc conspicuous in its absence from the films, for the fairly obvious reason that it isn't Disney-friendly.)
Compare and contrast Superman being forced to kill Zod in his first movie or getting whacked in his second big-screen outing, or Batman suffering from PTSD from watching the destruction of Metropolis. For that matter compare and contrast what the MCU itself routinely does on the small screen in series like Jessica Jones, Daredevil or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. -- there's just no comparison.
(It stands out particularly glaringly in the big screen because Downie's Iron Man has become basically the Avengers' flagship hero... and that character comes built in with a very famous story arc conspicuous in its absence from the films, for the fairly obvious reason that it isn't Disney-friendly.)
Compare and contrast Superman being forced to kill Zod in his first movie or getting whacked in his second big-screen outing, or Batman suffering from PTSD from watching the destruction of Metropolis. For that matter compare and contrast what the MCU itself routinely does on the small screen in series like Jessica Jones, Daredevil or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. -- there's just no comparison.
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Don't forget that a significant part of IM3 was Tony dealing with his PTS from The Battle of New York.
Respectfully disagree. I think that Superman's killing of Zod was wholly contrived for the sake of drama, I think that Groot's death and Rocket's reaction is incredibly poignant, especially in light of the way the film introduces the characters, as well as Tony Stark struggling, constantly, with his own personal identity. This is among others.
Sorry that it doesn't work for you, but I think that there are lot of dramatic moments that have punch, so to speak, and work very well in light of the the larger narrative.
Is that your interpretation of what happened? Because that's never set up. I know there is a fan theory that Batman has gotten darker since Robin died. But it's really really explained in the movie if he's going farther than normal. He's already killing bad guys during the movie and even brands most of them which is an automatic death sentence for some reason. I'm not sure how a criminal caught by Batman deserves to be killed by the other inmates over anyone else. The one we saw was a thief and not a pedophile or human trafficker.It's a dramatic scene in which Bruce realizes how far he's fallen.
I don't get what's so difficult to understand about that.
I'll get Batman's motivation for most of the movie. In that universe Superman actually seems to be bigger threat than actual help and his actions indirectly lead to the deaths of Bruce Wayne's employees and thousands of other people. But his motivation for change is laughably abrupt. It could have been changed with a simple line of dialogue explaining that he doesn't think he can trust Superman because he isn't like humans and has absolutely no emotional ties to humanity. If he learns that he has a human mother and girlfriend, it would click that he's one of us. But nothing is set up or foreshadowed. If it were a minor detail I'd let it go, but the entire plot of the movie and future of the DCEU depends on Superman and Batman's moms having the same name by coincidence. There's no deeper significance or any mention of Batman's parents other than the required scene of them dying and him visiting the grave.
It's as silly as Superman saying that he can't die because he has to see how the Bachelor ends that season and Batman saying that's his favorite show and helping him up and asking which Bachelorette is his favorite.
How much deeper does it need to go than the core of Batman's entire character? Comparing Batman's dead parents with them watching the Bachelor makes no sense. There's a difference between him believing Superman might have lived with a human family, and seeing him call for his mom moments before he's about to be killed.
I guess we have to assume that no criminal he ever fought before ever called out to their mom kindling some warmth in Batman's heart or Superman is an unique case because "reasons".
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