I disliked the final ep of Voyager

[Alex1939]

How would the Borg do that if the hub, uni-matrix complex and billions upon billions of Borg were destroyed?

I would think it would take the Borg many years to recover, much like Federation has to recover after the Dominion war. Janeway didn't make it worse, she leveled the playing field.

What I gave was one scenario, there are limitless problems with Janeway's actions.


here's another scenario. Perhaps another unknown threat develops in the delta quadrant. That threat, would've been destroyed, or at least held back or in check by the Borg. Due to Janeway's actions... the borg are to weak to defend against the new threat, which them moves on to attack/claim the alpha quadrant where the federation lies...
(Here's another far out scenario. Perhaps Chakotay and Seven have a child that turns out to be the "Hitler" of the federation. That child was never born had Admiral Janeway not altered the timeline.... like I said, limitless problems could occur)




Fact is, Janeway had no idea of knowing what future problems could arise from her altering the timeline, which she did only for HER SELFISH reasoning.

This could have been avoided had they painted a different picture of the Federation in the early portion of the finale. Had they made it look like the Federation was in serious trouble and in serious decline, then going back and hitting the Borg early makes sense. BUT THAT WASN'T IN THE EPISODE.



I don't see how you can so easily write off that what Admiral Janeway did would not have any future consequences.

 

[exodus]

How would the Borg do that if the hub, uni-matrix complex and billions upon billions of Borg were destroyed?

I would think it would take the Borg many years to recover, much like Federation has to recover after the Dominion war. Janeway didn't make it worse, she leveled the playing field.

What I gave was one scenario, there are limitless problems with Janeway's actions.


here's another scenario. Perhaps another unknown threat develops in the delta quadrant. That threat, would've been destroyed, or at least held back or in check by the Borg. Due to Janeway's actions... the borg are to weak to defend against the new threat, which them moves on to attack/claim the alpha quadrant where the federation lies...
(Here's another far out scenario. Perhaps Chakotay and Seven have a child that turns out to be the "Hitler" of the federation. That child was never born had Admiral Janeway not altered the timeline.... like I said, limitless problems could occur)




Fact is, Janeway had no idea of knowing what future problems could arise from her altering the timeline, which she did only for HER SELFISH reasoning.

This could have been avoided had they painted a different picture of the Federation in the early portion of the finale. Had they made it look like the Federation was in serious trouble and in serious decline, then going back and hitting the Borg early makes sense. BUT THAT WASN'T IN THE EPISODE.



I don't see how you can so easily write off that what Admiral Janeway did would not have any future consequences.

Because I'm not concerned with "What if " scenarios that aren't based upon anything we saw or know. There are limitless problems & solutions to everything in life because life is all about making choices but you can't sit polerized afriad of what may be by the choices you make.

There are always future consequences good or bad to any choice we all make, that's part of life. That's why it can be easily written off.

 

[Alex1939]

Because I'm not concerned with "What if " scenarios that aren't based upon anything we saw or know. There are limitless problems & solutions to everything in life because life is all about making choices but you can't sit polerized afriad of what may be by the choices you make.

There are always future consequences good or bad to any choice we all make, that's part of life. That's why it can be easily written off.

Well then I'll agree to disagree with you. I don't think your post above has anything to do with my topic here, that the unknown risks of traveling back and changing 20+ years of history is not worth one ship and one crew.


For me, time travel is always touchy in Star Trek. I've been a fan, that in most cases, that there is a sense the time line should be preserved and not tampered with.

The obvious exceptions were the Voyager finale and the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise, which are both two of the most displeasing things to me in Star Trek lore.

 

[exodus]

Because I'm not concerned with "What if " scenarios that aren't based upon anything we saw or know. There are limitless problems & solutions to everything in life because life is all about making choices but you can't sit polerized afriad of what may be by the choices you make.

There are always future consequences good or bad to any choice we all make, that's part of life. That's why it can be easily written off.

Well then I'll agree to disagree with you. I don't think your post above has anything to do with my topic here, that the unknown risks of traveling back and changing 20+ years of history is not worth one ship and one crew.


For me, time travel is always touchy in Star Trek. I've been a fan, that in most cases, that there is a sense the time line should be preserved and not tampered with.

The obvious exceptions were the Voyager finale and the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise, which are both two of the most displeasing things to me in Star Trek lore.

I guess we'll have to accept we have different opinions, honestly I never understood how one could agree to be disagreeable. Isn't that an oxymoron?

Seriously, I don't see how one ship getting home early drastically changes anything for the worse. I have no reason to believe that from what was given. TPTB wanted us to be happy they got home, so I no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Alex1939]

I guess we'll have to accept we have different opinions, honestly I never understood how one could agree to be disagreeable. Isn't that an oxymoron?

Seriously, I don't see how one ship getting home early drastically changes anything for the worse. I have no reason to believe that from what was given. TPTB wanted us to be happy they got home, so I no reason to believe otherwise.

It's the butterfly effect.

Hey, remember Enterprise? Daniels took Archer out of his time, and 700 years (or whatever) in the future the Earth was an apocolyptic planet.



What irritates me most, is one short scene and a few lines of dialogue could've prevented the problem. A sense that the Federation had suffered unbearable devastation would have alleviated any doubt in my mind about Janeway's motives. That is NOT how the episode displayed itself.

 

[exodus]

I guess we'll have to accept we have different opinions, honestly I never understood how one could agree to be disagreeable. Isn't that an oxymoron?

Seriously, I don't see how one ship getting home early drastically changes anything for the worse. I have no reason to believe that from what was given. TPTB wanted us to be happy they got home, so I no reason to believe otherwise.

It's the butterfly effect.

Hey, remember Enterprise? Daniels took Archer out of his time, and 700 years (or whatever) in the future the Earth was an apocolyptic planet.

No, I didn't like ENT.,barelt watched it, don't remember anything about it, don't like talking about it either. Sorry.

 

[Alex1939]

No, I didn't like ENT.,barelt watched it, don't remember anything about it, don't like talking about it either. Sorry.

Have you seen the movie Butterfly Effect? Or even the heroes episode with the same title?

 

[exodus]

No, I didn't like ENT.,barelt watched it, don't remember anything about it, don't like talking about it either. Sorry.

Have you seen the movie Butterfly Effect? Or even the heroes episode with the same title?

I know what the Butterfly Effect is and how it works.

No, I won't watch the film because I can stand Ashton Kutcher.

 

[Alex1939]

I know what the Butterfly Effect is and how it works.

No, I won't watch the film because I can stand Ashton Kutcher.

Personally I enjoyed the movie. Particularly with the alternate ending which i guess was too "shocking" for average movie goers.


Well, the Butterfly Effect is my reasoning behind the disappointment with the Voyager finale.

 

[exodus]

I know what the Butterfly Effect is and how it works.

No, I won't watch the film because I can stand Ashton Kutcher.

Personally I enjoyed the movie. Particularly with the alternate ending which i guess was too "shocking" for average movie goers.


Well, the Butterfly Effect is my reasoning behind the disappointment with the Voyager finale.

I still don't see why, the butterfly effect is random. The outcome can but just as equally good as it can be bad.

The writers wished to leave us with a good impression of having Voyager get home safe and sound. Therefore we must assume their intent was for the butterfly effect be a positive outcome. Seeing as how it's the writers universe, I'll side with them and a good outcome.

 

[Lightinspire]

Why couldn't they have had Voyager encounter the Nexus and use that to go back to any point they wanted and take Kirk's echo with them.

 

[Jeri]

The Nexus was pretty particular; they had a terrible time getting it to accept them in the movie. You had to encounter it...just...right... It's almost like it was alive; if it wasn't the The Nexus's idea, then forget about it.

 

[exodus]

Why couldn't they have had Voyager encounter the Nexus and use that to go back to any point they wanted and take Kirk's echo with them.

Because everybody that entered the Nexus never wanted to leave.

 

[Morfius]

There were several things wrong with it:

1. Time travel as a plot device - uninspired and woefully unoriginal.

2. The Borg - Now, don't get me wrong. I loved these guys back in the day, but by Season 7 the Borg had just become so passe.

3. Voyager returning home - Bad decision. Would have been much more striking if it was made clear at the end that the ship never got back to the Alpha Quadrant.

4. The ending of the final episode seemed rushed. Compare it to the final ep of DS9. Now THAT was a good series finale.

So overall, Voyager was a good series, but it ended on a weak note.

The borg were ruined by First Contact, when they ceased being a collective and became the Queen's fingers. Voyager merely exacerbated that problem. When I heard Voyager was going to gain a borg crew member, I thought it would be an asimilated Harry, who would act as the collective's watchdog as they were escorted through the borg's territory in exchange for the nanites. I was excited by the prospect! Instead, a small ship repeatedly defeated the borg! turning the best trek villain into a wimpy one!

Also, coming home should have happened at least a half season before the end of the series so we could see the consequences of their experience. Where were the Marquis trials/hearings? EMH's sentience hearing? Reunions with reletives?

 

[Jeri]

Small ships can defeat large armies in small ways; sailing-age pirates thrived and retired to Nouvelle Orleans and other ports wealthy.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I have to say that while I didn't entirely dislike the finale it did indeed disapoint me. I remember watching it with an overly eager Voyager fan who literally was jumping up and down and couldn't contain himself with glee about the ship and crew finally coming home. I myself was watching with much more of a critical eye...

The time travel plot was unfortunately neccessary the way things had been going on during season seven. If they had taken maybe three or four episodes to touch on the fact that they were close to home (seeing as how they knew the finale was coming in May) then perhaps we wouldn't have had to have a time travel plot. Future Admiral Janeway acted the way she did out of a desperation to save her two dead friends and make sure her family came back in tact whlie sacrificing a timeline. Kirk did a similar thing in STIII only a minor scale when he sacrficed his career to save Spock...he also went back in time to save Earth from the probe in STIV which could have had unfornseen circumstances. The Admiral knew the risks and sacrifice she was making when coming to this choice...it doesn't justify what she did but it does explain it a little.

The Borg...man...Voyager ruined the Borg for me and I remember during the first two or so seasons pondering when is the ship going to encounter them and what will be the consequences of that encounter? It's too bad that they came up with the various story ideas that they did with the Borg during the series, and yes I'm including introducing Seven. Liberting a Borg drone had already been done...or at least introducing indiviualism. I agree the creation of the Borg Queen concept did more damage to their mystic...but overuseage and bad stories also played a part. Janeway sending the Endgame virus to destroy the Transwarp Hub was fine but they made a big deal of it crippling the Borg. I don't think it would...and the novels have since vindicated me. I don't think they would have come back as soon though as the TNG relaunch books revealed.

The biggest thing about the finale though for me...above these other disapointments is that there wasn't any sort of emotional payoff for the crew. Sure they reached home and were shown escorted by a squadron of Starfleet ships but I was hoping they would have reunions...etc. Alas...oh well. These are my thoughts on the episodes.

 

[LLAP]

You know what I hated most about the final episode? The uniforms *shudder*

 

[ALF]

^^ yes, well, those "future" uniforms always show up in time travel episodes.

As for the original post, I did like the episode a bit better when it was titled "All Good Things" and it was the TNG finale.

 

[exodus]

What I don't get is, this board like many other has posters on it that claim to be writers that complain about the bad writing Trek is starting to have.

Why isn't anybody that thinks they can write better, writing for Trek?

 

[kipron]

i still think Jammer said it best.

"Voyager lives up to, and down to, itself to the very end. It has its cake and eats it too."