I've never seen my Dad cry, but I would hardly call him a sociopath.
I am a grown man and "The Visitor"makes me cry everytime.
- Thread starter James T Kirk
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My father passed away eight months ago, and I had been avoiding everything with parental death so obvs have been watching DS9 obsessively, safe territory innit?
I get to this episode and I can honestly say, this was handled in the best best way imaginable. I cried my eyes out not just for Jake, but for me. And I feel so grateful that I was in their good company.
Beautiful episode.
I get to this episode and I can honestly say, this was handled in the best best way imaginable. I cried my eyes out not just for Jake, but for me. And I feel so grateful that I was in their good company.
Beautiful episode.
It's one of my favorites, Tony Todd is a very versatile actor and deserves a number of awards and especially for this episode, but one thing bugs me:
How come Jake is so certain he has to kill himself at the right time and the lady he's discussing his plans to doesn't bat an eyelid? Nor does Ben? Jake discusses what is at best a theory.
Despite that, there's a ton to really appreciate in that story, especially about obsession, but the notion of "If I kill myself at the precise moment then history will not have happened" -- it's a trifle convenient and very lucky he was right.
The episode makes me cry as well, proving that plot convenience or rushing to get to the 43 minute mark doesn't necessarily ruin a story, but the "suicide will make it all right" notion still stands out in a bad way for some reason.
Unless I misinterpreted that?
How come Jake is so certain he has to kill himself at the right time and the lady he's discussing his plans to doesn't bat an eyelid? Nor does Ben? Jake discusses what is at best a theory.
Despite that, there's a ton to really appreciate in that story, especially about obsession, but the notion of "If I kill myself at the precise moment then history will not have happened" -- it's a trifle convenient and very lucky he was right.
The episode makes me cry as well, proving that plot convenience or rushing to get to the 43 minute mark doesn't necessarily ruin a story, but the "suicide will make it all right" notion still stands out in a bad way for some reason.
Unless I misinterpreted that?
This is one of the best episodes of Trek ever.
The Jake/Ben relationship was one of the big strengths of DS9.
One of DS9'S shining moments; one of the episodes that made the series worthwhile.
The Jake/Ben relationship was one of the big strengths of DS9.
One of DS9'S shining moments; one of the episodes that made the series worthwhile.
It's not "if you don't cry you're a sociopath". The problem would be saying "men shouldn't cry because that makes them less manly for some ridiculous crap reason". It's totally fine to either cry or not. Everyone should have the right to cope with emotional issues in their own individual way without people judging them for it. Behaviour should never be one-size-fits-all for any entire gender.
On topic: yes, the episode is amazing, but I didn't cry, either, and I AM NO MAN!!!!! /Eowyn.
I cry every time Simba's dad dies, though, and every time Mrs Brisby pulls her house out of the mud. I also cry when Jack and Rose meet again after death. Crying is cathartic!
He has spent a significant part of his life researching this problem so he might know some things he's not telling us in the scenes we actually see.
Also, since essentially he threw away all other pursuits in his life to the exclusive goal of getting his dad back, and his life seems to be pretty much over anyway at this point, perhaps Jake viewed it as not too much of a gamble.
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In Star Trek, life and death decisions are often made with much less research--more like moments of speculation.
Does anyone else find themselves able to cry at TV and films, but when real life tragedy strikes, finds themselves numb? My Mum was diagnosed with alzheimers last year, and shes gone downhill so quickly she almost never recognises her family any more, I haven't cried about it.
That said, I saw the video of the mum appealing for news about her daughter today and I cried at work. Maybe I'm human after all on some level.
That said, I saw the video of the mum appealing for news about her daughter today and I cried at work. Maybe I'm human after all on some level.
Sure, the main protagonists know they'll be back next week no matter what, so why not give it a try ?
Seriously though, the gist I got from watching that episode (which is admittedly a long time ago) was that this wasn't an impulsive decision, though perhaps it was a last-ditch effort. From the script:
Elsewhere in the script, it is mentioned that he had 'entered the doctoral programme' studying subspace mechanics (and presumably finished it). Taken together, I'd say he most probably researched the problem as a specialist in the field for an extended period of time and then came to this conclusion.
What bothered me about DS9 was how contrived the SF concept would be. It would be just an excuse to set up drama. A remarkable thing about The Visitor was how affecting it was despite the contrived premise.
Because this episode will speak to anyone who has lost someone dear to them. And it is a universal thing because EVERYONE will lose someone they love at some point in their lives.
And a great many, if not all, of us would do anything to bring back those ones we lost. Including what Jake did.
The only problem with "The Visitor" is that it's not the best one to start a guy on Deep Space Nine. Certainly one of the franchise's best.
I'm still nursing the chance to finally do a fan edit of the episode that shows ONLY Benjamin's scenes, and which therefore focuses on what he sees: his son, as he rapidly goes from being the one source of pride in his life to an obsessed shadow of a man who can't let go, to a tragic redemption, all in the space of a few minutes. I've done basically this by manually skipping to those clips, and even Ben's journey justifies his tears by the end of the show, and mine.
Mark
Certainly one of the franchise's best.I'm still nursing the chance to finally do a fan edit of the episode that shows ONLY Benjamin's scenes, and which therefore focuses on what he sees: his son, as he rapidly goes from being the one source of pride in his life to an obsessed shadow of a man who can't let go, to a tragic redemption, all in the space of a few minutes. I've done basically this by manually skipping to those clips, and even Ben's journey justifies his tears by the end of the show, and mine.
Mark
Just the name of that episode makes me want to cry a little bit. It has so many different layers of emotions attached to it, my God...
To me, "The Visitor" makes Sisko and Jake's relationship one of the most well written Father/Son relationships I've ever seen on a TV Series.
The Series Finale also feels way more consequential too because of it.
To me, "The Visitor" makes Sisko and Jake's relationship one of the most well written Father/Son relationships I've ever seen on a TV Series.
That episode is such a gut punch. I've been reluctant to watch it ever since we had our son. Just can't bring myself to turn it on.
God, it's as much of a tear jerker as the end of Field of Dreams. 'Hey Dad...wanna have a catch?' Or Jor-el's speech to Kal-el in Superman 1. 'You will make my strength your own, and see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine.' Cue the ugly crying.
God, it's as much of a tear jerker as the end of Field of Dreams. 'Hey Dad...wanna have a catch?' Or Jor-el's speech to Kal-el in Superman 1. 'You will make my strength your own, and see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine.' Cue the ugly crying.
Absolutely. I will sob like a baby at sad/tragic TV or movies -- like "The Visitor", literally every time I have seen it, which is a lot, sometimes I even start crying like 10 minutes before the last act, just anticipating how intense it's going to be. Honestly, it's almost comical, just the amount of weeping I can do at sad TV/film. But I'll cry far less at real life situations. I'll feel the feelings, it just doesn't manifest in tears.
Now that I think about it, I actually think I'm probably more likely to cry at the real-life situation that is lower-end upsetting, something that I'll fully get over in a reasonably short time -- cry it out and move on. By contrast, I've experienced far deeper and more profound losses, and never shed a tear.
So sorry about your mom. Don't worry about having the "right" emotional reaction -- just have the reaction you're having.
The best episode of the entire series, IMHO.
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