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Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix STV-

Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

I suspect that the film's many flaws would play out worse against a backdrop of good special effects.

If they cut out all the risible stuff and misfired sequences, the film would be too short. They'd have to create a subplot and shoot new scenes with another cast or something like that.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

You could also change the deck numbers in the turbolift scene and re-compose the fairly obvious bluescreen scenes when Kirk falls down the mountain. They could also add newly filmed scenes where they show firefights between Sybok's henchmen and Starfleet security aboard the Enterprise. So we really get to know how they managed to capture a Starfleet vessel so quickly.

The original script called for a journey through the galaxy for the opening credits, that ends with the camera entering Earth orbit and zooming down North America to Kirk on the mountain. I would pay real money for that sequence alone.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

Spock's previously unknown (and never mentioned again) emotional Vulcan brother
And... I suppose YOU never discovered a heretofore unknown crazy sibling-???:wtf:

Glass houses, my friend!;)
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

You could make the special effects look better than Star Trek XI if you threw enough money at it, but it'd still be the movie where Spock's previously unknown (and never mentioned again) emotional Vulcan brother captures the Enterprise with the power of positive thinking so he can meet God.
Well, I suppose that's true. But how many Star Trek episodes hinge on some equally convenient introduction of a character, technology or other such thing that we've never heard of before and never have mentioned again? Quite a few, I think.

And, to be fair, Sybok did not capture the Enterprise by giving motivational speeches. That was the veneer he put on it to make it look noble and good. But, in reality, he was using his telepathic abilities as a Vulcan. It's not like Sybok just gave a speech about God and suddenly the entire crew decided to mutiny. He used an advanced form of telepathic brainwashing. McCoy says as much.

And, lastly, I'm not sure why so many people have such a problem with the "searching for God" aspect of the plot. Sure, we all know that the Enterprise is not actually going to meet God. But there have been plenty of crazed, mentally questionable religious zealots down through the years who have believed in things equally ridiculous. Do you recall a group of people being convinced to commit suicide so that they could join the spaceship that was hiding behind a comet? So why are Sybok's motivations any more ridiculous?

In fact, that was Shatner's point. He was commenting on the many televangelist scandals of the time. To show how easily people's good motivations with regard to religion can be twisted and perverted by a charasmatic personality into something sinister.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

^Sadly, the point Shatner was trying to make got a bit lost there.

And besides, this is nothing new... how many times on TOS has Kirk gone up against a "god," only to have it turn out to be either an alien or a computer? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

And besides, this is nothing new... how many times on TOS has Kirk gone up against a "god," only to have it turn out to be either an alien or a computer? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Agreed, but that somewhat further reinforces my basic point. Namely, that the elements people are pointing to here as making the film fundamentally flawed and irredeemable are, in fact, elements that have been done in Trek not just once before, but many times before. Heck, I think it was Harlan Ellison who once commented on TMP something to the effect of 'it's Gene Roddenberry's standard story: the Enterprise meets God and it's either a child, a computer or both.' :)

The point being that just because a plot element has been done before doesn't mean you can't craft an engaging story around it. And a zealot on a crazed search for God is certainly not an unreasonable starting point for a plot. Unfortunately, things got way off track after that.

Of course, none of this is what Shatner had originally intended. He wanted the end result of the search to be for them to meet not an alien, but Satan. The real Satan. And have to battle their way out of Hell. Which Harve Bennett told him was simply not a story that could be done as a Star Trek movie. And I agree. But, still, at least Shatner's original intent was not to re-do the standard 'alien/computer pretending to be God' plot.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

Plot aside (yes, its silly - but no more silly than a lot of Star Trek), I enjoy Star Trek V because of the wonderful character moments.

Kirk, Spock & McCoy are more alive in this movie than we ever saw them before. The campfire scene is a lovely moment that would have been chopped to the cutting room floor in the hands of a Stuart Baird.

I only really have a problem with the FX at the end of the movie. Everything from the Great Barrier onwards is shit. Shit of the highest order. They really must have been in a pinch cos that stuff completely jars with the stuff that came before. Even though the stuff that comes before it is a little shaky (warping sideways?) - at least it is finished.

But then, TOS had some dodgy SFX and we forgive it over the passage of time. The same with TFF. I've found myself coming back to it over and over again over the years.

The opening scenes are simply lovely (its just a shame that some of the end stuff isnt).
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

Would you buy the DVD when released? ?

You betcha.

TOS did not need CGI 'fixing' - this film does. It seems odd having first rate effects work on the other five TOS films and then Bran Ferren's garbage on just this one.

I'm sure it will be done eventually - Paramount might as well release an official, Shatner-approved version and make some $$ out of it before fans make their own versions.

I can only assume that sales of the TOS movie DVD's mustn't be setting the world on fire, or Shatner would have been called in to do it by now.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

Of course, none of this is what Shatner had originally intended. He wanted the end result of the search to be for them to meet not an alien, but Satan. The real Satan. And have to battle their way out of Hell. Which Harve Bennett told him was simply not a story that could be done as a Star Trek movie. And I agree. But, still, at least Shatner's original intent was not to re-do the standard 'alien/computer pretending to be God' plot.
I agree, it was a noble effort in that way, and FX aside, far from as bad as many fans like to paint it.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

You can't pollish a turd.

I'd still probably buy it though, sucker that I am.

Didn't they do a mythbusters where they did, in fact, polish turds? It's quite possible!

I'd buy it right away, partially because I'm a tool but also because I do love that movie. I know it's not the best, but it's certainly got its moments :)
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

YES. I'd buy it in a minute.

New FX would be great and new Fx and a little of the silly stuff cut would be even better.


"WHEN I CAME ABOARD !! "
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

If you took out the big, major things that knock you out of the film, such as the jarringly bad visual effects and the way out of place comedy, and also put some effort into constructing a better ending, you could be left with a very good film. Not a great film. Not a cinematic classic. Not a film, perhaps, that's even on par with Trek's best efforts. But still a very good film.
If they just took out Scotty walking into that bulkhead, I'd be happy with that. And FX wise, it's really mainly some starship flybys & the rock men stuff. How expensive could it be?
And given the amount of debate amongst Trek fans about this film, I can't imagine that a reasonable effort at "upgrading" this film couldn't be profitable for Paramount.
Every fan would have to rent or buy it- that's for sure (except the severe haters, and I don't think that would be enough to hurt revenues).


Perhaps it was the kid in me but I really enjoyed the Scotty banging his head on the bulkhead in 5. I also loved the jail break rant.... Then again I was 9.
I think TFF was the real beginning of Scotty becoming the comic relief and inspiration for Trek '09. Kirk banging his head on the shuttle bulkhead, and Scotty hamming it up the entire movie.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

Spock's previously unknown (and never mentioned again) emotional Vulcan brother
And... I suppose YOU never discovered a heretofore unknown crazy sibling-???:wtf:

Glass houses, my friend!;)
I'll just wait a while longer for the results of that blood test...

...and then I'll be back with some rocks. :lol:

:lol:

You could make the special effects look better than Star Trek XI if you threw enough money at it, but it'd still be the movie where Spock's previously unknown (and never mentioned again) emotional Vulcan brother captures the Enterprise with the power of positive thinking so he can meet God.
Well, I suppose that's true. But how many Star Trek episodes hinge on some equally convenient introduction of a character, technology or other such thing that we've never heard of before and never have mentioned again? Quite a few, I think.

And, to be fair, Sybok did not capture the Enterprise by giving motivational speeches. That was the veneer he put on it to make it look noble and good. But, in reality, he was using his telepathic abilities as a Vulcan. It's not like Sybok just gave a speech about God and suddenly the entire crew decided to mutiny. He used an advanced form of telepathic brainwashing. McCoy says as much.

And, lastly, I'm not sure why so many people have such a problem with the "searching for God" aspect of the plot. Sure, we all know that the Enterprise is not actually going to meet God. But there have been plenty of crazed, mentally questionable religious zealots down through the years who have believed in things equally ridiculous. Do you recall a group of people being convinced to commit suicide so that they could join the spaceship that was hiding behind a comet? So why are Sybok's motivations any more ridiculous?

In fact, that was Shatner's point. He was commenting on the many televangelist scandals of the time. To show how easily people's good motivations with regard to religion can be twisted and perverted by a charasmatic personality into something sinister.

Well, that's not the part I have a problem with, the searching for god bit. I just tried to sum up the movie as succinctly as possible while trying to make it sound ridiculous. It's an idea that has potential to be interesting, but I'm not sure a decent execution could be done in only one film's run time. As for Sybok, it's more conspicuous since he's a direct relative of well-loved original series main character and never so much as mentioned before or after STV.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

As for Sybok, it's more conspicuous since he's a direct relative of well-loved original series main character and never so much as mentioned before or after STV.
Remember TOS ep with the flying pizza creatures? All of a sudden Kirk had a brother, Sam. STV was very OS in that way.:lol:
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

As for Sybok, it's more conspicuous since he's a direct relative of well-loved original series main character and never so much as mentioned before or after STV.
Remember TOS ep with the flying pizza creatures? All of a sudden Kirk had a brother, Sam. STV was very OS in that way.:lol:
Not exactly an apt comparison. That was 1/3rd into the run of the show and nothing had been established about Kirk's family before that.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

I would definitely get it ONLY if they let Shatner redo it HIS way and HIS way only without any more interference according to his script without their additions.
 
Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

It's not a terrible movie. It's fun to see Kirk, Spock and McCoy play off each other like they did on the TV show. The flaw is that (much like TMP) the whole movie is about building up how awesome the end of the movie will be, and then nothing happens in the third act.

Does anyone else agree with this? I actually found the last act one of the most satisfying parts of the movie. The main thing that bugged me was how sluggish the build-up or opening period of the movie was, but I was very happy with the resolution.
 
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