Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix STV-

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Chrisisall, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Elder Knight

    Elder Knight Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    I suspect that the film's many flaws would play out worse against a backdrop of good special effects.

    If they cut out all the risible stuff and misfired sequences, the film would be too short. They'd have to create a subplot and shoot new scenes with another cast or something like that.
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    You could also change the deck numbers in the turbolift scene and re-compose the fairly obvious bluescreen scenes when Kirk falls down the mountain. They could also add newly filmed scenes where they show firefights between Sybok's henchmen and Starfleet security aboard the Enterprise. So we really get to know how they managed to capture a Starfleet vessel so quickly.

    The original script called for a journey through the galaxy for the opening credits, that ends with the camera entering Earth orbit and zooming down North America to Kirk on the mountain. I would pay real money for that sequence alone.
     
  3. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    And... I suppose YOU never discovered a heretofore unknown crazy sibling-???:wtf:

    Glass houses, my friend!;)
     
  4. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    I'll just wait a while longer for the results of that blood test...

    ...and then I'll be back with some rocks. :lol:
     
  5. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Well, I suppose that's true. But how many Star Trek episodes hinge on some equally convenient introduction of a character, technology or other such thing that we've never heard of before and never have mentioned again? Quite a few, I think.

    And, to be fair, Sybok did not capture the Enterprise by giving motivational speeches. That was the veneer he put on it to make it look noble and good. But, in reality, he was using his telepathic abilities as a Vulcan. It's not like Sybok just gave a speech about God and suddenly the entire crew decided to mutiny. He used an advanced form of telepathic brainwashing. McCoy says as much.

    And, lastly, I'm not sure why so many people have such a problem with the "searching for God" aspect of the plot. Sure, we all know that the Enterprise is not actually going to meet God. But there have been plenty of crazed, mentally questionable religious zealots down through the years who have believed in things equally ridiculous. Do you recall a group of people being convinced to commit suicide so that they could join the spaceship that was hiding behind a comet? So why are Sybok's motivations any more ridiculous?

    In fact, that was Shatner's point. He was commenting on the many televangelist scandals of the time. To show how easily people's good motivations with regard to religion can be twisted and perverted by a charasmatic personality into something sinister.
     
  6. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles Patron Saint of Dangerous Driving Premium Member

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    ^Sadly, the point Shatner was trying to make got a bit lost there.

    And besides, this is nothing new... how many times on TOS has Kirk gone up against a "god," only to have it turn out to be either an alien or a computer? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Yes, you can. ;)
     
  8. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Agreed, but that somewhat further reinforces my basic point. Namely, that the elements people are pointing to here as making the film fundamentally flawed and irredeemable are, in fact, elements that have been done in Trek not just once before, but many times before. Heck, I think it was Harlan Ellison who once commented on TMP something to the effect of 'it's Gene Roddenberry's standard story: the Enterprise meets God and it's either a child, a computer or both.' :)

    The point being that just because a plot element has been done before doesn't mean you can't craft an engaging story around it. And a zealot on a crazed search for God is certainly not an unreasonable starting point for a plot. Unfortunately, things got way off track after that.

    Of course, none of this is what Shatner had originally intended. He wanted the end result of the search to be for them to meet not an alien, but Satan. The real Satan. And have to battle their way out of Hell. Which Harve Bennett told him was simply not a story that could be done as a Star Trek movie. And I agree. But, still, at least Shatner's original intent was not to re-do the standard 'alien/computer pretending to be God' plot.
     
  9. Jon1701

    Jon1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Plot aside (yes, its silly - but no more silly than a lot of Star Trek), I enjoy Star Trek V because of the wonderful character moments.

    Kirk, Spock & McCoy are more alive in this movie than we ever saw them before. The campfire scene is a lovely moment that would have been chopped to the cutting room floor in the hands of a Stuart Baird.

    I only really have a problem with the FX at the end of the movie. Everything from the Great Barrier onwards is shit. Shit of the highest order. They really must have been in a pinch cos that stuff completely jars with the stuff that came before. Even though the stuff that comes before it is a little shaky (warping sideways?) - at least it is finished.

    But then, TOS had some dodgy SFX and we forgive it over the passage of time. The same with TFF. I've found myself coming back to it over and over again over the years.

    The opening scenes are simply lovely (its just a shame that some of the end stuff isnt).
     
  10. Botany Bay

    Botany Bay Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    You betcha.

    TOS did not need CGI 'fixing' - this film does. It seems odd having first rate effects work on the other five TOS films and then Bran Ferren's garbage on just this one.

    I'm sure it will be done eventually - Paramount might as well release an official, Shatner-approved version and make some $$ out of it before fans make their own versions.

    I can only assume that sales of the TOS movie DVD's mustn't be setting the world on fire, or Shatner would have been called in to do it by now.
     
  11. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    I agree, it was a noble effort in that way, and FX aside, far from as bad as many fans like to paint it.
     
  12. Sovay

    Sovay Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Didn't they do a mythbusters where they did, in fact, polish turds? It's quite possible!

    I'd buy it right away, partially because I'm a tool but also because I do love that movie. I know it's not the best, but it's certainly got its moments :)
     
  13. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    I truly love the opening & closing of the flick. They're reason alone to own it.
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    YES. I'd buy it in a minute.

    New FX would be great and new Fx and a little of the silly stuff cut would be even better.


    "WHEN I CAME ABOARD !! "
     
  15. Cr031k

    Cr031k Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S


    Perhaps it was the kid in me but I really enjoyed the Scotty banging his head on the bulkhead in 5. I also loved the jail break rant.... Then again I was 9.
    I think TFF was the real beginning of Scotty becoming the comic relief and inspiration for Trek '09. Kirk banging his head on the shuttle bulkhead, and Scotty hamming it up the entire movie.
     
  16. RyuRoots

    RyuRoots Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    :lol:

    Well, that's not the part I have a problem with, the searching for god bit. I just tried to sum up the movie as succinctly as possible while trying to make it sound ridiculous. It's an idea that has potential to be interesting, but I'm not sure a decent execution could be done in only one film's run time. As for Sybok, it's more conspicuous since he's a direct relative of well-loved original series main character and never so much as mentioned before or after STV.
     
  17. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Remember TOS ep with the flying pizza creatures? All of a sudden Kirk had a brother, Sam. STV was very OS in that way.:lol:
     
  18. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Not exactly an apt comparison. That was 1/3rd into the run of the show and nothing had been established about Kirk's family before that.
     
  19. Lightinspire

    Lightinspire Lieutenant Commander

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    I would definitely get it ONLY if they let Shatner redo it HIS way and HIS way only without any more interference according to his script without their additions.
     
  20. Too Much Fun

    Too Much Fun Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Hypothetical: If Paramount ponied up the cash for Shatner to fix S

    Does anyone else agree with this? I actually found the last act one of the most satisfying parts of the movie. The main thing that bugged me was how sluggish the build-up or opening period of the movie was, but I was very happy with the resolution.