How would you rewrite Endgame?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by chris of nine, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As dark and sad RandyS 's scenario is, it is certainly realistic. :techman:
    Indeed, we must not forget that it is not because Janeway and her crew have become accustomed to see Chakotay and his Maquis crew, the Doctor and Seven as friends that the situation had to be imposed on Starfleet/the Federation. That's why I truly think that the "after-Endgame" could not necessarily mean a happy end for everyone (after the Voyager's reunion party, of course! ;)). Never underestimate the force of resentment that people can have sometimes, especially in high spheres like Starfleet and the Federation were. :whistle:

    As for Harry Kim, I don't know why but I don't see him live (and prosper) a longtime in Starfleet institution!
    No doubt he has many qualities (smart, kind, courageous, for ex.) to become a perfect gentleman for any women (even if until now, his experiences women and capable man and a brilliant officer but he is very ambitious too and to quickly advance to more senior roles, he would easily embark on challenges, without
    without weighing all the consequences. => or he would be killed in a mission or he would resign further to a mission which would gone wrong because of an error of assessment/miscalculation from his part, causing many casualties.
    Indeed, he will not always have a Janeway, Paris, Torres or Seven with him for reason him, when the situation will be complicated!:shrug:
     
  2. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sigh.....

    I didn't mean that their circumstances had to be "dark and sad" forever, only that their pre "Caretaker" circumstances had to be adressed before they could move on. Whch is why Janeway's part in the episode would be to get them off, and she would succeed.

    I was basically appealing to the Ron Moore--"everything in life is a downer-negative" fans.
     
  3. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Make her friends out of jail permanently is one thing and I'm sure that Juneway will succeed in this task, that they may have life of their dreams is another one. Let's be honest, their past (Maquis in particular for Chakotay and Torres => as during WWII, there was people who supported the Maquis and their activities and others who despised them) and/or differences (Borg implants for Seven : given all the harm inflicted by the Borg in different quadrants, there would be nothing surprising to see people wanting to keep their distance. As for being a hologram and enjoys the same rights as living being, there will always be opponents) will always haunt them because there will always be people/medias around to remind them. Janeway cannot force people to accept her friends, right? And it is not being negative but realistic! :whistle:

    (And if you don't believe me, look at the fate of criminals out of prison, for who only a few people want to give another chance AND / OR people who are different and can not find their place in society!)
     
  4. Six of Twelve

    Six of Twelve Captain Captain

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    I wouldn't change much. I'd just show a bit of what happens after they all return home and some hints of what they plan to do next.
     
  5. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't love Endgame, and part of the reason why was it felt very selfish on Admiral Janeway's part to upend reality just to bring Seven of Nine home. Plus, I didn't like the out-of-the-blue Seven and Chakotay romance either. I did think the Janeway-Tuvok scenes were touching and well-done, and I was fine with the futures of the other Voyager crewmembers, though "Joe" as the Doctor's name wasn't that funny to me.

    All that being said, if I stay with the Borg idea and not change too much, I would have had Seven of Nine as the person who goes back in time to save Janeway. Janeway doesn't make it out of the Delta Quadrant in the past and Seven is forever haunted by that. Admiral Janeway's actions felt more like something Seven would have done.

    I also wouldn't have made future tech Voyager so powerful. The 1989 Batmobile look was a bit too much.

    Other thoughts I've had were to bring them home in Season 6 and have Season 7 deal with the aftermath of that. And perhaps do something with Species 8472, the Vaadwaur, or another opponent coming to the Alpha Quadrant. The Voyager crew back home for a season allows them to explore new relationships, but also could be a way we could learn what happened after the DS9 series finale as well.
     
  6. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Get rid of the time travel part of it, for 2 reasons. Well, 3 actually.
    1 - The original Voyager made some changes to the Delta Quadrant around them by the time they reached home. They changed some lives perhaps (maybe Harry Kim even found a girlfriend!). Is it right to undo those changes just because Admiral Janeway wants to save a few of her crewmembers?
    2 - I half expected Captain Braxton or some other time policeman to stop them and send them back to where they were supposed to be no matter how close to Earth they appear to be in the final shot.
    3 - If Admiral Janway could time travel, why pick that point in time? Why not go earlier and save more crewmen or go back to the beginning and undo it all or later or whenever? Was that Borg warmhole/corridor/whatever it was the only one in existence? Couldn't there have been another they could have taken far earlier had they known about it?

    Instead, I'd prefer it if when contact with Starfleet was established, a gradual "Steafleet comes up with an idea to bring them home. Voyager tries it. Doesn't work fully but it brings them a bit closer" until they're practically at the gate. Do the writers want a Borg fight? Let's keep it, with the Voyager hitting them from behind while Starfleet hits them from the front and let Voyager emerge victorious like it did in the show.
     
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  7. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    Mostly I would just build up to it in previous episodes. And find a better reason for Janeway to change history than "her three favorite people got screwed by life but everyone else is fine."
     
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  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's what cheesed me off most about the episode...the utter disregard for anything Voyager might have accomplished after the point where Janeway chose to jumpstart the trip. Are we supposed to believe that nothing else they did mattered to anyone?

    More snarkily there's the "Why not go back a week earlier and keep Carey from dying pointlessly?" argument, but I digest.
     
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  9. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oooh the ambition....
     
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  10. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Not to mention the lives both Maquis and Starfleet lost in getting to the Delta Quadrant. No one cares about them either....
     
  11. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They were a sacrifice The Island Voyager demanded.
     
  12. TigerCat

    TigerCat Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    :rommie:

    Or the sacrifice needed for the Maquis to plug in good/vital positions of the ship and make them work together easier. The scene in the bridge was like musical chairs! Janeway sat and was saved, Tom sat and was saved, Cavitt was without a chair and oops,he died!
     
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  13. Captain Pike Fan

    Captain Pike Fan Ensign Newbie

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    More closure would have been nice. People getting back together with their families.
     
  14. Sakonna

    Sakonna Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I always thought the entire concept behind "Endgame" was fatally flawed. The only thing I would definitely retain is a final confrontation with the Borg and the Queen.

    I wish they had ended DS9-style, with an arc. I wish they had gotten home not just earlier in the finale, but 4 or 6 or 10 episodes before the series ended. There is SO MUCH story to tell with what happens when they get home, and they left it all on the table (they did show us some of this in the future timeframe, but it felt empty once the time travel erased it).

    They could have even split the crew up -- half of them get home with several episodes to spare via Insert Technobabble Here, then they have to figure out the way to get the rest of the crew home while playing out whatever their personal "Return To Earth" drama is. At the same time they could have been waging a two-front final war with the Borg. It just feels like a more authentic approach to the story than the time travel gimmickry they opted for.

    And it really seems like someone should have properly died in the finale. The setup of this show seemed to demand a climactic sacrifice of that nature.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  15. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's because the writers chose to focus on a completely contrived relationship between a young woman and a guy old enough to be her father, who were not even remotely interested in each other before this, along with Tuvok getting some weird disease that was also never even remotely hinted at before, culminating in a Janeway from the future who hates her life and yet doesn't seem to care that everyone else's life is just fine and for some reason feels the need to wipe out decades of history just so the aforementioned disturbing daddy-daughter relationship can continue.

    You think that's a fairly good assessment of Endgame?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  16. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Daddy-daughter?

    Oh, Doctor Joe and wife?

    And she’s a soft core actress.

    A hologram’s dream.
     
  17. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No. I was referring to Seven of Nine and Chakotay.
     
  18. chris of nine

    chris of nine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  19. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I would have put it midway through the season, or at least have it not be the last episode. Have the final three episodes deal with the aftermath.
     
  20. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    And so he will go in history as "The evil Lieutenant (jg) - Emperor"... though those revisionist scholars that don't recognise his authority to promote himself will stubbornly call him "the Evil Ensign-Emperor", or EEE for short.