How Would You Recommend DS9 To A New Viewer?
- Thread starter Luther Sloan
- Start date
I'd basically say if you're looking for something good to watch watch the 7th season first and then start backwards from there.
Why not start at What You Leave Behind and work your way back till you finish with Emissary?
And to make it better, watch the last 5 minutes of an episode first, then go back and watch the previous 5 minutes, and so on, until you end it with the teaser. DS9 Memento-style.
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I haven't seen Emissary in a year or so....I'm suffering from DS9 Withdrawl.
Gimmick for my next review thread confirmed!And to make it better, watch the [last] 5 minutes of an episode first, then go back and watch the previous 5 minutes, and so on, until you end it with the teaser. DS9 Memento-style.
"Enin Ecaps Peed Stisiver Renin A"
I feel horrible for having read that "Erin Escapes Pee River Resin."
Most of the world (certainly 99% of the people who aren't from USA, Japan or Cuba) can't.
I'd at least show them "Trials and Tribblations" if they've seen the original Trek series that should get them hooked easy.
Continuing from this thread: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=122875&page=3
The thing is that I seriously believe that your advice is flawed. What you had said was this:
In my opinion, skipping to The Adversary is complete overkill that misses some great twists and character moments. Skipping the bad episodes is fine, I can understand you advising someone not to watch them, but advising them to skip so many great episodes because of the rut in season 1 will harm their impression of the series, not improve it.
That's why I suggested that 1ittle should visit the DS9 forum if she's having difficulty watching season 1, that way we can figure out what she likes and try to come up with a plan that suits her tastes.
Like I said, I didn't intend to be rude, and if I came across that way then I apologise.
The thing is that I seriously believe that your advice is flawed. What you had said was this:It's entirely possible for someone to be put off by the early episodes of season 1, and I can imagine that by the time they reach the halfway point, Move Along Home, they might be tempted skip ahead or just give up entirely. If that's the case then I think it's a really bad idea to skip ahead to season 4, that the best strategy is to pick the good episodes from season 1 and 2. Just because someone is put off by the likes of The Passenger and Q-Less doesn't mean they should immediately skip to The Adversary and start from there, if they do that they're skipping out on some of the best that DS9 has to offer. They should skip to Duet, ITHOTP and the Circle Trilogy, and if they're still determined to watch only the good episodes then they should be given a list that includes Necessary Evil, Whispers and the final third of the season.
In my opinion, skipping to The Adversary is complete overkill that misses some great twists and character moments. Skipping the bad episodes is fine, I can understand you advising someone not to watch them, but advising them to skip so many great episodes because of the rut in season 1 will harm their impression of the series, not improve it.
According to this thread, most do agree that if they find the show hard to get into then selected highlights from the early seasons are the way to go. We'd argue about which episodes to include, I'd strongly advocate for Vortex to be included while others would say that it's an average episode at best, but that's all part of the fun.
That's why I suggested that 1ittle should visit the DS9 forum if she's having difficulty watching season 1, that way we can figure out what she likes and try to come up with a plan that suits her tastes.Clearly they're not as sophisticated as us Niners.Heck there are people who have watched the entire series of Deep Space Nine and have still hated it.
Which is beyond me.
...And as I stated in my previous post (in the other thread), I made it clear that I am not against someone either watching it chronologically or having them view a list of the best episodes from the first three seasons. Skipping ahead to "Adversary" is simply a third alternative to getting someone into the series.
Now, you and possibly many others here on the forum may not agree with that assessment, but that is simply how I feel. It is neither right, wrong, or flawed. It is my opinion, and I have good reasons (as already mentioned) to think this way.
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
Here's what I suggest:
Show them Emissary, A Man Alone, maybe Past Prologue. So they are established with all the characters.
Then, briefly explain the "stand-alone stories until the big arc starts in 'The Jem Hadar' thing" and warn them that a lot of standalones, in S1 in particular, are mediocre. Then, let them choose.
Another thing to keep in mind is, S1 and 2 can be a lot better received after they've become a fan.
Show them Emissary, A Man Alone, maybe Past Prologue. So they are established with all the characters.
Then, briefly explain the "stand-alone stories until the big arc starts in 'The Jem Hadar' thing" and warn them that a lot of standalones, in S1 in particular, are mediocre. Then, let them choose.
Another thing to keep in mind is, S1 and 2 can be a lot better received after they've become a fan.
Which is why I initially said that it wouldn't hurt if someone became a fan in watching either Adversary on afterwards. But like I said before, I am not against them watching the highlights of the first three seasons if they have trouble getting into the earlier episodes.
I'm going to elaborate a little further on what I see as the best way to approach the early seasons of DS9 so as not to get bogged down, while at the same time not missing out on the great episodes and important set-up material for the later seasons.
Condensed Season 1
For the essentials of season one, I would suggest the following ten-episode bouquet:
Emissary
Past Prologue
Captive Pursuit
Dax
The Nagus*
Vortex
Battle Lines
Progress*
Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
These 10 episodes provide the majority of the universe and character building of season 1. Many see the Ferengi episodes as the scourge of DS9, so The Nagus should be dropped by anyone who finds it annoying. That said, the Ferengi are pretty important recurring characters on the show, so it's worth taking a look at this introduction to their culture. Progress is a solid character episode for Kira. Most people either have a strong negative or strong positive reaction to this character in the early seasons, so this episode should be included or dropped accordingly.
For those who want to delve a little deeper into season 1 at this stage, I would add Babel, The Storyteller, The Forsaken and Dramatis Personae, none of which need to be watched in broadcast order.
Condensed Season 2
After checking out the season 1 material anyone enjoying themselves should just watch season 2 in its entirety, as it is much stronger than season 1 overall and probably the most important season for universe and character building. On the other hand, for anyone still on the fence about the show at this point, I would recommend the following season 2 bouquet:
The Homecoming
The Circle
The Siege
Cardassians
Necessary Evil
Whispers
Then the last 8 episodes of the season:
Blood Oath
The Maquis 1 & 2
The Wire
Crossover
The Collaborator
Tribunal
The Jem'Hadar
Straight to the Epic Seasons
For anyone who just isn't enjoying themselves at all with any of the above material, I would cut straight to the following, a slightly less drastic option than Luther_Sloan is proposing, but with the same basic goal:
The Jem'Hadar
The Search 1 & 2
Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast
The Adversary
The Way of the Warrior
DS9 Sampler
Before launching into the show in chronological order, it's possible to get a feel for the show without spoiling much. I would recommend the following to just get a taste of the show's various styles and themes:
The Way of the Warrior, which is basically a second pilot that works remarkably well as a standalone, while giving any new viewer a taste of the epic feel of the later seasons.
Duet, for a glimpse of the more intellectual and character-driven side of the show.
Trials and Tribble-ations, for any fan of other parts of the Trek franchise.
Necessary Evil, which needs no introduction.
Civil Defense, a standalone episode that involves a lot of important characters and introduces the station as alien and potentially dangerous. Also, people just seem to enjoy it.
Captive Pursuit, another episode that stands on its own and is widely beloved.
Whispers, Visionary or Hard Time, all high-quality "torture O'Brien" episodes that don't spoil anything.
Condensed Season 1
For the essentials of season one, I would suggest the following ten-episode bouquet:
Emissary
Past Prologue
Captive Pursuit
Dax
The Nagus*
Vortex
Battle Lines
Progress*
Duet
In the Hands of the Prophets
These 10 episodes provide the majority of the universe and character building of season 1. Many see the Ferengi episodes as the scourge of DS9, so The Nagus should be dropped by anyone who finds it annoying. That said, the Ferengi are pretty important recurring characters on the show, so it's worth taking a look at this introduction to their culture. Progress is a solid character episode for Kira. Most people either have a strong negative or strong positive reaction to this character in the early seasons, so this episode should be included or dropped accordingly.
For those who want to delve a little deeper into season 1 at this stage, I would add Babel, The Storyteller, The Forsaken and Dramatis Personae, none of which need to be watched in broadcast order.
Condensed Season 2
After checking out the season 1 material anyone enjoying themselves should just watch season 2 in its entirety, as it is much stronger than season 1 overall and probably the most important season for universe and character building. On the other hand, for anyone still on the fence about the show at this point, I would recommend the following season 2 bouquet:
The Homecoming
The Circle
The Siege
Cardassians
Necessary Evil
Whispers
Then the last 8 episodes of the season:
Blood Oath
The Maquis 1 & 2
The Wire
Crossover
The Collaborator
Tribunal
The Jem'Hadar
Straight to the Epic Seasons
For anyone who just isn't enjoying themselves at all with any of the above material, I would cut straight to the following, a slightly less drastic option than Luther_Sloan is proposing, but with the same basic goal:
The Jem'Hadar
The Search 1 & 2
Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast
The Adversary
The Way of the Warrior
DS9 Sampler
Before launching into the show in chronological order, it's possible to get a feel for the show without spoiling much. I would recommend the following to just get a taste of the show's various styles and themes:
The Way of the Warrior, which is basically a second pilot that works remarkably well as a standalone, while giving any new viewer a taste of the epic feel of the later seasons.
Duet, for a glimpse of the more intellectual and character-driven side of the show.
Trials and Tribble-ations, for any fan of other parts of the Trek franchise.
Necessary Evil, which needs no introduction.
Civil Defense, a standalone episode that involves a lot of important characters and introduces the station as alien and potentially dangerous. Also, people just seem to enjoy it.
Captive Pursuit, another episode that stands on its own and is widely beloved.
Whispers, Visionary or Hard Time, all high-quality "torture O'Brien" episodes that don't spoil anything.
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If I knew they were committed into doing a DS9 marathon with me I would still show it to them like this...
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3948735&postcount=13
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3948735&postcount=13
I just told my wife that in all the ST series, the first two seasons are not that great since they're spent trying to develop story background and characters..... and for the first couple of seasons of DS9, the show doesn't go very far, but there are still some worthwhile episodes and the first two seasons are important to the overall storyline.
Just warn the new viewer to not hold high expectations right off the bat..... by the end of watching DS9 and the final episode, my wife was pretty sad to see it end. And she was of course one of those people who thought Star Trek was like Star Wars..... ie: Shallow, empty, baseless eye candy and special effects for nerds, that's not done very well at that.
But that's not what you said in the post that I originally quoted, I was just explaining why I was advising 1ittle to not take your advice.
And I'm still not sure why you think skipping right to The Adversary should be the third choice. If you're trying to rush the viewer to the Dominion War period then it makes little sense to jump past The Jem'Hadar/The Search and Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast. Those last two in particular are great episodes and vital to future plotlines, if a new viewer cannot appreciate them then they're probably not going to be interested in any of the Dominion material and there's not much point in jumping to season 4.
It can run the other way too, part of the reason why the early seasons are considered poor is because what came later was much better. For a TNG fan the early seasons of DS9 aren't that bad, it's not up to the standard of TNG season 3-6 but it's not as bad as TNG seasons 1 & 2.
I agree with pretty much everything you say, and your episode list makes the most sense of any in this thread, in my opinion. I still think that a new viewer should try and watch it all, but if they find it tough to get through then your episode list is the way to go.
I agree with pretty much everything you say, and your episode list makes the most sense of any in this thread, in my opinion. I still think that a new viewer should try and watch it all, but if they find it tough to get through then your episode list is the way to go.
Hi praise from the likes of TheGodBen
I'm a partisan of the "beginning to end" approach myself, but I'm also living proof that there are many roads to becoming a Niner, some of which are quite circuitous and less than ideal, as was my own.
Here, I will tell you the tale:
Chapter 1: First Contact
The Setting: College, in the attic over at the house of my buddy, Matt*, along with a few other friends.
The State of Mind: Wasted.
The Episode: Call to Arms.
Matt, who was a fan of the show, and equally as wasted as myself, goes berserk and starts yelling something about "Holy shit, they lost the station!!!!"
My reaction: Hilarity, at Matt's reaction mostly. Admittedly it seemed like a pretty cool moment, but I had other things on my mind.
Chapter 2: Channel Surfing
The Setting: My Living Room.
The State of Mind: Bored.
The Episode: Tacking into the Wind.
I saw Kira beat up Rusot and Garak emerge from the shadows, then kept flipping channels. Later I saw Odo collapse in a heap when I flipped past the channel again.
My reaction: None to speak of.
Chapter 3: Bad Luck
The Setting: Two different couches in two different rooms on two different occasions.
The State of Mind: Irritated.
The Episodes: Our Man Bashir and Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang
Somehow I tuned into two episodes of DS9 reruns on two separate occasions and managed to stumble upon two holodeck episodes, leading me to wonder, "Why the hell did this show do so many holodeck episodes?"
My reaction: I hate holodeck episodes. DS9 sucks.
Chapter 4: The Turning Point
The Setting: The home of my brother-in-law, Steven*, a long-time Trekker.
The State of Mind: Intrigued.
The Episode: Civil Defense.
Steven showed me Civil Defense as a sample episode to encourage me to give DS9 a shot. I ended up borrowing season 3 and coming back for seasons 1 + 2 a few weeks later.
My reaction: What the hell had I been thinking?
Chapter 5: A Niner is Born
The Setting: My New Living Room (I had moved several times since chapter 2
)The State of Mind: Trek heaven.
The Episodes: All of them.
I watched all of DS9 in order over the span of a few months.
My reaction: Wow, they made a Trek show for me personally, and I didn't even know it until several years after it was off the air
The Moral of the Story: Each Niner must walk his own path through the darkness of ignorance unto the light of truth and redemption
* The real names of the participants have been altered to protect the innocent, but the events are narrated exactly as they occurred in reality, in all of their shocking and graphic detail.
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