How would you re-imagine and reboot Enterprise?

[Jedi Marso]

yeah, but what happened to suliban and xindi? do we need two shows about their extinction? or may be we can handle that in one show star trek: the suliban-xindi war where they nuke eachother into oblivion in the pilot and the crew of uss holmes then tries to find out what happened over seven seasons

Maybe neither one is even extinct- we just don't happen to see them in the later of adventures of TOS and TNG- but the ARE around...

 

[oberth]

Maybe neither one is even extinct- we just don't happen to see them in the later of adventures of TOS and TNG- but the ARE around...

you did see those emojis?

 

[Golbolco]

More good ideas here.

The problem with expanse being only 50 LY from Earth is not a big one, if Archer and his crew solve this one in the 22nd Century. By the time of TOS, it's simply a settled issue that doesn't merit mention, as there is no TOS episode that hearkens back to it. By the 24th, it's a historical footnote in the action-packed decades leading up to the founding of the UFP.

I agree that it's not really a problem, I've never been one to complain about prequels introducing new elements not followed up on later. I just thought it was worth commenting on, since a lot of people worry about it.

So let's say the Delphic Expanse expedition is kept because the Xindi/Kzinti pose a threat to Humanity even if the nature of prequels negates it, but we swap out the Temporal Cold War/the Sphere-Builders for the Romulans. What has to change?

Are the Romulans capable of building something like the Spheres? As I understand, some fans debate if they even had warp drive in this era. Can they warp space and create anomalies on a massive scale? Maybe the Spheres are left over from some failed civilization that preceded the Romulans' arrival in the area.

Trellium-D's dual role as toxic to Vulcan physiology and insulation against anomalies becomes more significant. The Romulans might have fled to an area beyond the Expanse precisely because it would give their pursuers a tough time surviving.

The crew of the Enterprise would not be allowed to interact with the Xindi/Kzinti's benefactors to preserve continuity; that means the scripts for Harbinger, Damage, The Forgotten, The Council, Countdown, and Zero Hour would need partial reworks. Harbinger might have to be ditched completely, or just used as an episode to introduce a surviving Sphere-Builder who is unconnected to the larger plot. If the Xindi Council interacts directly with the Romulans, then they probably can't interact with T'Pol. I think it's best if the Romulans only communicate with their clients via subspace, given their habits.

Without the Temporal Cold War, we also end up ditching the episodes Carpenter Street and E^2. There's also the episode Twilight, but that's not a conventional time travel episode and I personally like it, so I'd keep that script and move it to later in the season.

 

[Airmandan]

The problem I foresee with a higher turnover rate is that there is no recruitment pool as it stands. Perhaps this is a new role to give to the Enterprise: on their way to making contact with Human colonies, someone on board should be in charge of recruitment. Reed or Mayweather are good candidates for this role. In general, Archer should be handing out field commissions and setting up Starfleet chapters or at least dropping subspace buoys at worlds that choose to become affiliated.

You could actually work that into the storyline. If all the initial crew are earth born humans, as time goes by the crew will grow more diverse with replacements from other worlds and species. That allows you to do more crew focused episodes as friction develops and is overcome, making for a much more interesting crew.

 

[oberth]

You could actually work that into the storyline. If all the initial crew are earth born humans, as time goes by the crew will grow more diverse with replacements from other worlds and species. That allows you to do more crew focused episodes as friction develops and is overcome, making for a much more interesting crew.

in my book, that's a bit too much 18th century royal navy - they'd probably start with a few extras in every department

 

[Golbolco]

You could actually work that into the storyline. If all the initial crew are earth born humans, as time goes by the crew will grow more diverse with replacements from other worlds and species. That allows you to do more crew focused episodes as friction develops and is overcome, making for a much more interesting crew.

Some more crew-focused episodes would be nice, especially if we up the ante on redshirts and non-bridge crew going on surveys. MACOs, in particular, are the only significant adjustment to the crew complement and we only see conflict between their commander and Reed.

There needs to be more recurring characters in general. Wasn't Sarah April from TAS supposed to have been the medical officer on the Bonaventure? I suppose the timeline was shorter when that series was made; if the age can be reasoned, then she could be Phlox's assistant and eventually graduate to doctor herself. Archer could use a yeoman. With no Temporal Cold War, Daniels could be retooled into the Section 31 agent rather than shoehorning it into Reed's backstory. Someone has to be present and ensuring that Starfleet's less public goals are being met.

 

[oberth]

Some more crew-focused episodes would be nice, especially if we up the ante on redshirts and non-bridge crew going on surveys. MACOs, in particular, are the only significant adjustment to the crew complement and we only see conflict between their commander and Reed.

There needs to be more recurring characters in general. Wasn't Sarah April from TAS supposed to have been the medical officer on the Bonaventure? I suppose the timeline was shorter when that series was made; if the age can be reasoned, then she could be Phlox's assistant and eventually graduate to doctor herself. Archer could use a yeoman. With no Temporal Cold War, Daniels could be retooled into the Section 31 agent rather than shoehorning it into Reed's backstory. Someone has to be present and ensuring that Starfleet's less public goals are being met.

don't forget that the actress who played cutler (she was supossed to be recurring) died

 

[Dukhat]

I don't think a 26-episode Star Trek season could have spent all of that time on Earth, but I can see that your argument makes a lot of sense. An extended arc could have definitely been set there. The thing is, a crew on a spaceship is neither unique to Star Trek's premise nor something that can be disassociated from the premise. ENT could have differentiated itself from TNG and VOY in other ways, but they didn't.

It's arguable that changing the premise of the show was what could have attracted a larger audience. I believe that that was UPN's actual intent with not having "Star Trek" in the series title. But with most things UPN, they completely failed in this endeavor. Their show was little different than their previous Star Trek show that had just ended. But instead of realizing their mistake, they just continued on with the same format for two years before becoming a 9-11 allegory, which was also debatable in its popularity.

 

[Golbolco]

don't forget that the actress who played cutler (she was supossed to be recurring) died

I wasn't aware that had happened, that's very sad.

It's arguable that changing the premise of the show was what could have attracted a larger audience. I believe that that was UPN's actual intent with not having "Star Trek" in the series title. But with most things UPN, they completely failed in this endeavor. Their show was little different than their previous Star Trek show that had just ended. But instead of realizing their mistake, they just continued on with the same format for two years before becoming a 9-11 allegory, which was also debatable in its popularity.

Recently I heard about another alternate ENT pitch from Doug Drexler; in this one, the Vulcans left Earth after First Contact and invited Humanity to find them when they were ready. Consequently, Humanity had spent the next 90 years preparing a voyage to discover Vulcan with little alien contact in between.

Again we run into a scale problem with Vulcan only being 16LY away, although the Humans don't necessarily know where to look at first. We also lose Phlox and T'Pol until Season 2 (though Phlox could come aboard in the pilot as a first contact incident on the way off of Earth.) I still think there's potential to this idea, though: the Humans are looking for what's basically a promised land where their first alien contactees hail from, and instead find a decadent bureaucracy being puppeted by the Romulans and at war with the Andorians.

 

[oberth]

It's arguable that changing the premise of the show was what could have attracted a larger audience. I believe that that was UPN's actual intent with not having "Star Trek" in the series title. But with most things UPN, they completely failed in this endeavor. Their show was little different than their previous Star Trek show that had just ended. But instead of realizing their mistake, they just continued on with the same format for two years before becoming a 9-11 allegory, which was also debatable in its popularity.

yep, for a stOOpid plothole, what kind of an idiot tests a proof of concept planet destroying weapon on the intented target for the real thing? did the 9/11 crew fly a model plane into a dumpster in hoboken, nj?

i don't have a problem with the second season (i kinda like the idea of the temporal cold war - the name and the execution are different things, though) but they needed to learn of the threat differently. maybe they could get an scout ship that checks out our solar system and when said scoutship's self distruct partially fails there's enough information left to scare the shit out of starfleet - or a reptillian pilot swears at them and tells them: "you are all doomed" and then he starts a kamikaze run which crashes his ship into the ground at a rather high velocity. that causes probably less dead people but elizabeth tucker can still be among them (florida is a better target to take as many of us with him as possible as there needs to be some sort of flak in san fransisco).

I wasn't aware that had happened, that's very sad.

yes, very sad - i really liked her
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kellie_Waymire

 

[Golbolco]

yep, for a stOOpid plothole, what kind of an idiot tests a proof of concept planet destroying weapon on the intented target for the real thing? did the 9/11 crew fly a model plane into a dumpster in hoboken, nj?

i don't have a problem with the second season (i kinda like the idea of the temporal cold war - the name and the execution are different things, though) but they needed to learn of the threat differently. maybe they could get an scout ship that checks out our solar system and when said scoutship's self distruct partially fails there's enough information left to scare the shit out of starfleet - or a reptillian pilot swears at them and tells them: "you are all doomed" and then he starts a kamikaze run which crashes his ship into the ground at a rather high velocity. that causes probably less dead people but elizabeth tucker can still be among them (florida is a better target to take as many of us with him as possible as there needs to be some sort of flak in san fransisco)

Here's an idea: what if it's less of a singular attack followed by a doomsday blow, but the Xindi are basically performing a near-constant volley on Earth, a la the Blitz on London in WWII? They warp in, bomb Earth wherever they can strike before kamikazeing into the surface, and then rinse and repeat every couple months. While Starfleet and the Solar System are busy militarizing, the Enterprise goes behind enemy lines to strike the heart of the Xindi and end the bombardment at its source.

Humanity has no knowledge of the size or resource pool of the Xindi fleet, and Earth will eventually be rendered uninhabitable if the rate of the bombardment continues for long enough. This makes the threat believable without relying on doomsday weapons, and it also opens up the story to a moral defeat even if a military defeat is unbelievable in the confines of the prequel: even if Earth survives the Xindi, it may morph into something unforeseen as its forces militarize and become hostile to science expeditions inviting outsiders back to their world. We sort of see this with the xenophobia in Season 4, but imagine that on a larger scale and a Starfleet that is evolving into a force that will be capable of fighting a Romulan war--with a moral cost.

 

[oberth]

Recently I heard about another alternate ENT pitch from Doug Drexler; in this one, the Vulcans left Earth after First Contact and invited Humanity to find them when they were ready. Consequently, Humanity had spent the next 90 years preparing a voyage to discover Vulcan with little alien contact in between.

i like that - no vulcans in sausalito means

• a lot more chances to fuck up the warp5 engine
• no star charts
• no nitpicking about "they are new to us"
• invent a species the vulcans have told about us for whatever (i leave that to the writers) reason: "you must be those troglodytes the vulcan high command told us about" - that could be a mini arc at the end of season 1 that yields an alien crew-member (being cast out for talking too much to troglodytes). - that also could cause trouble with someone in starfleet command who might like to extensively debrief our new alien friend. actually that could be shran with the imperial guard having a acquired that knowledge by sinister means.

as the vulcans are under some sort of emcon (otherwise seti would have found them) 16 lightyears is not really a problem - the didnt, give a hint where to find them right?. "we shall meet again when you're ready" and off they are

Here's an idea: what if it's less of a singular attack followed by a doomsday blow, but the Xindi are basically performing a near-constant volley on Earth, a la the Blitz on London in WWII?

two problems

1. enterprise needs to run that blockade / bombardment force twice against a technically superior enemy
   
2. no contact to earth as any competent general would block earth's somewhat primitive communications before the bombardment starts (not that trek is any good in military matters anyway)

 

[fireproof78]

I like the Kzinti but I don't know if there are rights problems with including Known Space elements into Star Trek. When I think about it, the Spheres and the Sphere-Builders sort of resemble the Ringworld and the Pak, with an interdimensional twist. I think that the best way to reimagine it might be to place the Delphic Expanse in what will become the Neutral Zone, and have the Xindi/Kzinti being manipulated by the Romulans instead of the Sphere-Builders. I like the Spheres and the anomalies, though; it's hard to say how these can be repurposed after injecting the Romulans into the arc.

I wouldn't necessarily use the Romulans, but I would keep the interdimensional piece, with the Kzinti trying to use it as a weapon, with it being able to consume items for resources. The Enterprise enters the Expanse, finding out that it is not a natural phenomenon, and works to either prevent the destruction or make it neutral. Becomes more complicated as the Kzinti try to say that the Earth crew is lying and seeks to destroy the Sphere Builders. Eventually, it's resolved. The Kzinti tried to steal a Sphere but it is destroyed as the Sphere Builders leave, but it gets the attention of the Romulans.

 

[oberth]

I wouldn't necessarily use the Romulans, but I would keep the interdimensional piece, with the Kzinti trying to use it as a weapon, with it being able to consume items for resources. The Enterprise enters the Expanse, finding out that it is not a natural phenomenon, and works to either prevent the destruction or make it neutral. Becomes more complicated as the Kzinti try to say that the Earth crew is lying and seeks to destroy the Sphere Builders. Eventually, it's resolved. The Kzinti tried to steal a Sphere but it is destroyed as the Sphere Builders leave, but it gets the attention of the Romulans.

scream & leap in trek?

 

[FederationHistorian]

yeah, but what happened to suliban and xindi? do we need two shows about their extinction? or may be we can handle that in one show star trek: the suliban-xindi war where they nuke eachother into oblivion in the pilot and the crew of uss holmes then tries to find out what happened over seven seasons

It could work as an arc, if the Tandarans got involved and supported the Xindi against the Suliban – it being the latest species they support in their conflcit with the Suliban after the Tholians and Klingons - only for it to literally blow up in their faces.

Although the Xindi-Insectoids at the very least would need to survive. DIS implied that they are still around in the 32nd century, through a Changeling.

Here's an idea: what if it's less of a singular attack followed by a doomsday blow, but the Xindi are basically performing a near-constant volley on Earth, a la the Blitz on London in WWII? They warp in, bomb Earth wherever they can strike before kamikazeing into the surface, and then rinse and repeat every couple months.

Doing so though leaves nothing for the Romulans down the line aside from cloaked ambushes and setting booby traps. And the Blitz tactic makes more sense for the Romulans anyways; the Romulan War should overshadow the Xindi conflict and the Kzinti conflict the century prior and rendering those conflicts footnotes. But the Xindi and Kzinit conflicts should still hold significance to Starfleet in the lead up to the Romulan War.

Although maybe the Blitz idea is modified so that the Xindi are attacking Earth and its allies Vulcan and Denobula unprovoked. Along with Vulcan client states in Coridan and Agaron, and Earth colonies in Alpha Centauri, Vega, and Deneva. Gives Starfleet a reason to explore an alliance that is essentially a proto-Federation, and gives the crew opportunities to hold varying views. So Trip holds the Earth viewpoint, Phlox the Denobulan viewpoint, Mayweather the Earth colony viewpoint, T'Pol the Vulcan viewpoint, Reed the military viewpoint, Sato having to consider the Xindi viewpoint, and Archer's having to balance all of these viewpoints and try to prevent alienating his senior staff.

 

[Golbolco]

i like that - no vulcans in sausalito means

• a lot more chances to fuck up the warp5 engine
• no star charts
• no nitpicking about "they are new to us"
• invent a species the vulcans have told about us for whatever (i leave that to the writers) reason: "you must be those troglodytes the vulcan high command told us about" - that could be a mini arc at the end of season 1 that yields an alien crew-member (being cast out for talking too much to troglodytes). - that also could cause trouble with someone in starfleet command who might like to extensively debrief our new alien friend. actually that could be shran with the imperial guard having a acquired that knowledge by sinister means.

as the vulcans are under some sort of emcon (otherwise seti would have found them) 16 lightyears is not really a problem - the didnt, give a hint where to find them right?. "we shall meet again when you're ready" and off they are

Good call on emcon! I'll suggest that Vulcans could still be on Earth observing Humanity, perhaps in disguise as we see they often employ on pre-warp worlds. That way, you can bring T'Pol aboard in the first season, but she does not reveal herself to be a Vulcan until we get towards the end of the season.

two problems

1. enterprise needs to run that blockade / bombardment force twice against a technically superior enemy
   
2. no contact to earth as any competent general would block earth's somewhat primitive communications before the bombardment starts (not that trek is any good in military matters anyway)

First, I think it would be useful for the Enterprise to be accompanied by other starships on their way into the Delphic Expanse. This is what I thought the NX-02 was being introduced for in The Expanse, but they never paid that off. Second, I might be misremembering, but was the Enterprise in contact with Earth during Season 3 anyway?

I wouldn't necessarily use the Romulans, but I would keep the interdimensional piece, with the Kzinti trying to use it as a weapon, with it being able to consume items for resources. The Enterprise enters the Expanse, finding out that it is not a natural phenomenon, and works to either prevent the destruction or make it neutral. Becomes more complicated as the Kzinti try to say that the Earth crew is lying and seeks to destroy the Sphere Builders. Eventually, it's resolved. The Kzinti tried to steal a Sphere but it is destroyed as the Sphere Builders leave, but it gets the attention of the Romulans.

This is a fair idea, and I think much of the plot from Season 3 can be recycled into this reimagining without much issue.

Doing so though leaves nothing for the Romulans down the line aside from cloaked ambushes and setting booby traps. And the Blitz tactic makes more sense for the Romulans anyways; the Romulan War should overshadow the Xindi conflict and the Kzinti conflict the century prior and rendering those conflicts footnotes. But the Xindi and Kzinit conflicts should still hold significance to Starfleet in the lead up to the Romulan War.

Although maybe the Blitz idea is modified so that the Xindi are attacking Earth and its allies Vulcan and Denobula unprovoked. Along with Vulcan client states in Coridan and Agaron, and Earth colonies in Alpha Centauri, Vega, and Deneva. Gives Starfleet a reason to explore an alliance that is essentially a proto-Federation, and gives the crew opportunities to hold varying views. So Trip holds the Earth viewpoint, Phlox the Denobulan viewpoint, Mayweather the Earth colony viewpoint, T'Pol the Vulcan viewpoint, Reed the military viewpoint, Sato having to consider the Xindi viewpoint, and Archer's having to balance all of these viewpoints and try to prevent alienating his senior staff.

I really like your ideas on the various viewpoints (and of course we would include Shran's chaotic Andorian viewpoint when he makes his appearance!) summing up into an earlier Coalition of Planets. Though to me, any beginnings of the Federation should still have some indirect link to the coming Romulans. After all, all roads lead to Rome... er, Romulus

Speaking of: one of the ideas I do like about the Xindi is that they themselves represent a proto-Federation. Replacing them with the Kzinti might make that idea less useful.

 

[oberth]

Good call on emcon! I'll suggest that Vulcans could still be on Earth observing Humanity, perhaps in disguise as we see they often employ on pre-warp worlds. That way, you can bring T'Pol aboard in the first season, but she does not reveal herself to be a Vulcan until we get towards the end of the season.

you think starfleet medical is that stOOOpid?

Speaking of: one of the ideas I do like about the Xindi is that they themselves represent a proto-Federation. Replacing them with the Kzinti might make that idea less useful.

why is everyone so obsessed with the kzinti? i like them but the have their claws full with terrorizing 'us' in the known universe. everybody is up in arms about recycling used plots is recycling other universes any better?

say no to the great unified universe !!

 

[Golbolco]

you think starfleet medical is that stOOOpid?

Well, maybe she has some DNA samples she submits to protect her identity, like Ethan Hawke's character in Gattaca. And then that's where Phlox comes in--see, on their way off Earth, the Enterprise is hit by something and the chief medical officer dies. They get helped out by some passing Denobulans, who leave them with their veterinarian and his menagerie. T'Pol conspires with Phlox not to reveal her identity.

why is everyone so pbsessed with the kzinti? i like them but the have their claws full of terrorizing 'us' in the known universe. everybody is up in arms about recycling used plots is recycling other universes any better?

Well, Sulu says that they had fought wars with Earth 200 years ago, and Xindi sounds a bit like Kzinti. I'm not married to the Kzinti in ENT, I just don't love the Xindi.

 

[oberth]

Well, maybe she has some DNA samples she submits to protect her identity, like Ethan Hawke's character in Gattaca. And then that's where Phlox comes in--see, on their way off Earth, the Enterprise is hit by something and the chief medical officer dies. They get helped out by some passing Denobulans, who leave them with their veterinarian and his menagerie. T'Pol conspires with Phlox not to reveal her identity.

and a vet knows all the stuff about using 'the zoo' on patients - there's a denobulan shuddle in the augments mini-arc - let him have one of these; one that can't be salvaged but in parts reverse engineered.

Well, Sulu says that they had fought wars with Earth 200 years ago, and Xindi sounds a bit like Kzinti. I'm not married to the Kzinti in ENT, I just don't love the Xindi.

where? i think they are in tas but (if true) that was lazy writing then and it would be now - use hodgkin's law to your heart's content but let your big sentient cats not be the ones from another universe. what's next a merger between trek and the planet of the apes, law & order or bonanza? if at all i'd accept a merger between trek and yes minister.

 

[fireproof78]

law & order

Yes please!