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How Would You Have Crewed Voyager?

QUOTE=Icthulhu;11393495]Either recast Chakotay and Kim, or turn them into actual robots. Not Soong-type androids, mind you - actual robots based on existing Starfleet technology - automated MACO's. So - humanoid but more mechanoid and less intelligent than Data or the EMH, and decidedly more Maco-type. They were hacked and given autonomous will by a virus designed to thwart quick reprogramming, so they are very slow to learn or change, so when they do it's more meaningful. Now everything they do and are can be acted exactly in the same way, but it's somehow more interesting.[/QUOTE]

:guffaw:

QUOTE=Icthulhu;11393495]Let's see Seska as a recurring villain, slowly reverting to a full-on Cardassian soldier and megalomaniac, as she violates the Prime Directive and creates a fascist spacefaring empire from some backwater industrialized world with no ethical inhibitions about anything.[/QUOTE]

This is good. She had wanted to expedite getting home, but she could've decided to put that on hold until she established a meaningful presence in the quadrant that would hew to Cardassian principles and tactics, would answer to subsequent Cardassian dictates, and would give them an overwhelming advantage among the AQ powers out there. It would be more than a slight feather in her cap, and of course she would still take advantage of messing with Voyager as much as possible!!!:techman:



Neelix came off as an obnoxious know nothing know it all and interfering busy body. One episode portrayed him as jealous psychopath, this character really needed to be toned down. No wonder Sfdeferis thinks almost every Voyager episode has a stupid Neelix moment.

Well, it seems that you choose to overlook the implications of the number of episodes that very crucially sketched out the underpinnings of his character and why, on the surface, he seemed to have no content other than that annoying, insufferable cretin you describe. Well, at least you didn't call him Jar Jar. That idiocy seems to have pretty much disappeared.
Parturition, Jetrel, Fair Trade, Mortal Coil, Rise, Once Upon a Time, Riddles, and numerous individual scenes in other episodes seem not to have made much of an impression on you or at least given some pause to be a bit more thoughtful of the character. As you say, to each their own.

As for SF Debris, he clearly is extremely knowledgeable about Voyager (and I don't doubt the other creations he has covered as well). Unfortunately, from my perspective at least, he chooses to insert his personal animus or displeasure about certain decisions TPTB made, in the obnoxious/sophomoric manner of a smartass par excellence, which I suppose he might think is a sign of sophistication or a wink to his audience of knowing comprehension. To my eyes, it severely depreciates the seriousness that one can accept his criticism to the realm of tiring and tiresome bilge that offers little of value to a thoughtful appreciation of the positives and deficiencies of the show, and as such I religiously avoid the productions.

I do admit, though, that I find his evaluation of Kes as a character throughout her run, was cogent, appreciative of what Jennifer Lien brought to the role, and even was quite questioning of the logic of her being dispatched from the show, when she would have offered so much more given the opportunity.
 
Quite frankly, the crew should've been more varied than just "Starfleet and another smaller weaker group" if they were going for longer-lasting conflict.

Imagine a crew of Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians and some mixed in Delta Quadrant aliens (not just one or two) all on one ship.
 
Though the Voyager cast was good enough,

This-

My choices would have been:

Captain Elizabeth Shelby...
Lt. Commander Calvin Hudson...
Lieutenant Tuvok...
Lieutenant Ro Laren...
Lieutenant JG Sam Lavelle...
Lieutenant JG B'Elanna Torres...
Ensign Harry Kim...
Jorrun...
Kes...

and this-

I like those choices.

I would have paid the writers and gone with Nick Larcarno. I know it was played by the same actor but I think the crossover would have been a lot smoother and I would have kept him edgier for a lot longer.

Would keep Seven.

No Neelix.

... are great choices so long as Jorrun replaces Neelix, Larcarno still plays Captain Proton, and Ro is on tactical (with Tuvok as security chief).
 
Seven would still come onboard (though not at the sacrifice of any other character) but would be male and still have a thing for "functional" catsuits.
 
I would've put Ro Laren as XO. You gotta put your most driven characters at the top of the tree. Hudson is a good character but he's too nice for that role. And no other ex-Starfleet among the Maquis. Just hardened, brutalised ex-colonialists impatient and suspicious of Starfleet, peppered with a few thinly disguised mercenary types for the rest of the Maquis.

And they should outnumber the Starfleet types.
 
What would be stopping the Maquis from just killing the Fleeters and taking Voyager for themselves? Or from becoming a bunch of Space Pirates?
 
What would be stopping the Maquis from just killing the Fleeters and taking Voyager for themselves? Or from becoming a bunch of Space Pirates?

Morality? The idea, amongst (most of) the Maquis colonists, that they weren't as bad as the Cardassians they fought against?

Star Trek: Voyager presented us a show where the Maquis decided to join with the Starfleet crew as provisional officers. Michael Piller's original idea (and the one I side with) was for the Maquis to join with the Starfleet crew as an unaffiliated civilian group.

But taking it to the third extreme, the idea of the Maquis "winning" the day and taking command of Voyager and perhaps making the Starfleet crew join them would be interesting.

They have the same goal, returning to the Alpha Quadrant. Would Captain Janeway be placed in the brig? Or just Tuvok? Would they actively assimilate the crew? Would they become a bit totalitarian themselves and disband any attempts at Starfleet rebellion?

Or would the Chakotay/Hudson figure just take command of the ship and put the best people in charge, as long as they obeyed his strict Maquis command?

The Maquis aren't space pirates, they're freedom fighters within an unrecognized state who go to extreme behaviors in order to win territory from an expansionist empire. You remove pretty much all reasons for their existence, and the Maquis would just begin the slow march home and probably engage in many of the same adventures as on the show (at least, initially).

Of course, you have the Seska situation and other dealings with Kazon or Lon Suder or whatnot, that would be dealt with differently. But if the Captain is Chakotay or Cal Hudson or Tom Paris or Ro Laren, then you still have someone with Starfleet ethics leading the way in unexplored territory. So, you'd still probably see lots of Federation-style assistance given and directives followed from time-to-time.
 
Bry Sinclair wrote...

My choices would have been:

Captain Elizabeth Shelby...
Lt. Commander Calvin Hudson...
Lieutenant Tuvok...
Lieutenant Ro Laren...
Lieutenant JG Sam Lavelle...
Lieutenant JG B'Elanna Torres...
Ensign Harry Kim...
Jorrun...
Kes...



I agree with you, great choices...I would do without Kes, and I do like the idea of Nick Locarno (and perhaps deep-six Kim). I think the Locarno / Lavelle would have made a great Bro-mance, but perhaps they are too similar type characters.

I would even like this as a Alpha Quadrant crew...a possible Archer Class crew. even tho' I'm sick of Planet o' Week stories, almost if it was on an intelligence gathering ship..(won't go any further to derail the thread.
 
The Maquis aren't space pirates, they're freedom fighters within an unrecognized state who go to extreme behaviors in order to win territory from an expansionist empire. You remove pretty much all reasons for their existence, and the Maquis would just begin the slow march home and probably engage in many of the same adventures as on the show (at least, initially).

That's why I think the crew should've been more mixed than just Fleet and Maquis. It should've had some other Alpha Quadrant aliens and more Delta Quadrant aliens right off the bat.

Look at Farscape. Because they had such a varied crew (and because the ship was more or less automated they didn't need a crew in the first place) there was lots of connection to the area of space they were in which allowed for better worldbuilding.

Voyager had very little connection to the DQ and needed more, because the internal conflict had to end after a season or so unless the crew was insane.
 
The Voyager writers seem to have a fundamentally wrong idea about what the Maquis stood for, which is why they never got to the interesting ideological conflict that could have driven the relationship between the crews. That one scene where people were talking about the Maquis way and Chakotay punched the guy and said "THAT'S THE MAQUIS WAY!" Except no, no it's not. The Maquis were not thugs and in all of their appearances they took effort to minimize innocent casualties. Even when they poisoned a Cardassian colony's atmosphere they used a slow acting poison so they would have time to evacuate.

The Maquis should have had some anger and distrust toward Starfleet but wouldn't have adopted the cowboy 'hack and run' approach as the show implied they would. They wouldn't care about the prime directive or scientific research but they also wouldn't leave behind a trail of innocent casualties.
 
The Maquis aren't space pirates, they're freedom fighters within an unrecognized state who go to extreme behaviors in order to win territory from an expansionist empire. You remove pretty much all reasons for their existence, and the Maquis would just begin the slow march home and probably engage in many of the same adventures as on the show (at least, initially).

That's why I think the crew should've been more mixed than just Fleet and Maquis. It should've had some other Alpha Quadrant aliens and more Delta Quadrant aliens right off the bat.

Look at Farscape. Because they had such a varied crew (and because the ship was more or less automated they didn't need a crew in the first place) there was lots of connection to the area of space they were in which allowed for better worldbuilding.

Voyager had very little connection to the DQ and needed more, because the internal conflict had to end after a season or so unless the crew was insane.

Yeah, a cool idea would've been to have something like 90% of the Starfleet crew perish in Caretaker and in the series they would've been crewed by survivors from the Starfleet ship, Maquis ship, and a bunch of other ships (Kazon, Talaxian, maybe Klingons or Romulans or some Gamma Quadrant species) that had been kidnapped by the array. The hero ship would be the Starfleet ship (maybe led by science officer Janeway, promoted via the death of all her superiors), but everyone else would be passengers or filling the necessary roles of those who perished during the incident.

A very vague outline of the cast (limiting to 9) from the outset would be:
* Kate Mulgrew as Captain Janeway (field promoted from Lieutenant Commander)
* Vaughn Armstrong as Doctor Telek R'Mor (Romulan leader / Operations Officer)
* Roxann Dawson as B'Elanna Torres (Maquis / acting chief engineer)
* Jennifer Lien as Kes (Ocampan nurse)
* Robert Duncan McNeill as Nicholas Locarno (Maquis leader / former Starfleet officer / flight controller)
* Ethan Phillips as Neelix (Talaxian leader / Delta Quadrant expert)
* Robert Picardo as Doctor Zimmerman (Starfleet hologram / CMO)
* Tim Russ as Lieutenant Tuvok (formerly a Starfleet spy on Maquis ship / Security Chief)
* Tony Todd as Commander Kurn (leader of the Klingons / executive officer)

Romulans and Klingons onboard the same ship would be an issue (especially with Kurn and what happened to his parents), but one worth exploring if they handle it correctly.
 
^Kurn (or any other Klingon) would have been slighted from day one. The Caretaker captured the crew and Klingons hate being captured.
 
Then he has a character arc right off the bat: He feels disgraced over this and is suicidal (like what happened in DS9), having to overcome this to regain his personal sense of pride and strength.

It's be better than what DS9 did to his character at any rate.

Voyager should've been a bigger ship as well, so they could keep some other smaller vessels in the Hangers/Shuttle Bays for usage later.

Or maybe the opening arc after the Array is destroyed is them realizing Voyager can't survive a length amount of time without support so they have to incorporate parts of the other ships (which were either destroyed or damaged beyond repair) to make Voyager bigger and stronger.
 
Then he has a character arc right off the bat: He feels disgraced over this and is suicidal (like what happened in DS9), having to overcome this to regain his personal sense of pride and strength.

It's be better than what DS9 did to his character at any rate.

Voyager should've been a bigger ship as well, so they could keep some other smaller vessels in the Hangers/Shuttle Bays for usage later.

Or maybe the opening arc after the Array is destroyed is them realizing Voyager can't survive a length amount of time without support so they have to incorporate parts of the other ships (which were either destroyed or damaged beyond repair) to make Voyager bigger and stronger.

Or it could have been a neat idea to have a little fleet of ships led by Voyager to travel with on their way home. Swapping a good amount of officers, perhaps, to keep their main crews balanced and full (the Klingons lost their flight controller, Voyager needs a chief engineer, the Maquis need a transporter operator...).

Maybe you could even have a little bit of drama in episodes 2 or 3 with a hypothetical Cardassian ship or Ferengi ship or something trying to vie for control of the fleet and ultimately failing and getting destroyed or sulking off in some other direction (only to show up again in Season 2)
 
QUOTE=Icthulhu;11393495]Either recast Chakotay and Kim, or turn them into actual robots. Not Soong-type androids, mind you - actual robots based on existing Starfleet technology - automated MACO's. So - humanoid but more mechanoid and less intelligent than Data or the EMH, and decidedly more Maco-type. They were hacked and given autonomous will by a virus designed to thwart quick reprogramming, so they are very slow to learn or change, so when they do it's more meaningful. Now everything they do and are can be acted exactly in the same way, but it's somehow more interesting.

:guffaw:

QUOTE=Icthulhu;11393495]Let's see Seska as a recurring villain, slowly reverting to a full-on Cardassian soldier and megalomaniac, as she violates the Prime Directive and creates a fascist spacefaring empire from some backwater industrialized world with no ethical inhibitions about anything.[/QUOTE]

This is good. She had wanted to expedite getting home, but she could've decided to put that on hold until she established a meaningful presence in the quadrant that would hew to Cardassian principles and tactics, would answer to subsequent Cardassian dictates, and would give them an overwhelming advantage among the AQ powers out there. It would be more than a slight feather in her cap, and of course she would still take advantage of messing with Voyager as much as possible!!!:techman:



Neelix came off as an obnoxious know nothing know it all and interfering busy body. One episode portrayed him as jealous psychopath, this character really needed to be toned down. No wonder Sfdeferis thinks almost every Voyager episode has a stupid Neelix moment.

Well, it seems that you choose to overlook the implications of the number of episodes that very crucially sketched out the underpinnings of his character and why, on the surface, he seemed to have no content other than that annoying, insufferable cretin you describe. Well, at least you didn't call him Jar Jar. That idiocy seems to have pretty much disappeared.
Parturition, Jetrel, Fair Trade, Mortal Coil, Rise, Once Upon a Time, Riddles, and numerous individual scenes in other episodes seem not to have made much of an impression on you or at least given some pause to be a bit more thoughtful of the character. As you say, to each their own.

As for SF Debris, he clearly is extremely knowledgeable about Voyager (and I don't doubt the other creations he has covered as well). Unfortunately, from my perspective at least, he chooses to insert his personal animus or displeasure about certain decisions TPTB made, in the obnoxious/sophomoric manner of a smartass par excellence, which I suppose he might think is a sign of sophistication or a wink to his audience of knowing comprehension. To my eyes, it severely depreciates the seriousness that one can accept his criticism to the realm of tiring and tiresome bilge that offers little of value to a thoughtful appreciation of the positives and deficiencies of the show, and as such I religiously avoid the productions.

I do admit, though, that I find his evaluation of Kes as a character throughout her run, was cogent, appreciative of what Jennifer Lien brought to the role, and even was quite questioning of the logic of her being dispatched from the show, when she would have offered so much more given the opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Except there are lots of episodes that do present Neelix as either an idiot or as busy body who constantly interferes in other people's business. In Basics part 2, he got a crew man killed with his incompetence and how is Parturition a good Neelix episode, he acted like a total A-hole the whole episode. In Blood Fever he knocked Torres down while they were climbing down a rock face, after he said they didn't need climbing gear and he could have easily not knocked down Torres. He also almost destroyed Voyager with cheese, how often has Neelix threatened the lives of others with his incompetence?

Neelix may have a few good episodes, but the stupid Neelix moment is well deserved in many episodes. I think you could have cut this character and the show would have been better.
 
Neelix came off as an obnoxious know nothing know it all and interfering busy body. One episode portrayed him as jealous psychopath, this character really needed to be toned down. No wonder Sfdeferis thinks almost every Voyager episode has a stupid Neelix moment.

Well, it seems that you choose to overlook the implications of the number of episodes that very crucially sketched out the underpinnings of his character and why, on the surface, he seemed to have no content other than that annoying, insufferable cretin you describe. Well, at least you didn't call him Jar Jar. That idiocy seems to have pretty much disappeared.
Parturition, Jetrel, Fair Trade, Mortal Coil, Rise, Once Upon a Time, Riddles, and numerous individual scenes in other episodes seem not to have made much of an impression on you or at least given some pause to be a bit more thoughtful of the character. As you say, to each their own.

As for SF Debris, he clearly is extremely knowledgeable about Voyager (and I don't doubt the other creations he has covered as well). Unfortunately, from my perspective at least, he chooses to insert his personal animus or displeasure about certain decisions TPTB made, in the obnoxious/sophomoric manner of a smartass par excellence, which I suppose he might think is a sign of sophistication or a wink to his audience of knowing comprehension. To my eyes, it severely depreciates the seriousness that one can accept his criticism to the realm of tiring and tiresome bilge that offers little of value to a thoughtful appreciation of the positives and deficiencies of the show, and as such I religiously avoid the productions.

I do admit, though, that I find his evaluation of Kes as a character throughout her run, was cogent, appreciative of what Jennifer Lien brought to the role, and even was quite questioning of the logic of her being dispatched from the show, when she would have offered so much more given the opportunity.

Except there are lots of episodes that do present Neelix as either an idiot or as busy body who constantly interferes in other people's business. In Basics part 2, he got a crew man killed with his incompetence and how is Parturition a good Neelix episode, he acted like a total A-hole the whole episode. In Blood Fever he knocked Torres down while they were climbing down a rock face, after he said they didn't need climbing gear and he could have easily not knocked down Torres. He also almost destroyed Voyager with cheese, how often has Neelix threatened the lives of others with his incompetence?

Neelix may have a few good episodes, but the stupid Neelix moment is well deserved in many episodes. I think you could have cut this character and the show would have been better.

I agree that it was an ill-considered decision in Basics, although Neelix didn't make the request baselessly, as the bones Hogan was to collect would have been directly useful to the crew's survival efforts. Of course, as Parturition begins, Neelix is experiencing the full range of his jealous insecurities. But just to except them as they are presented, doesn't take into account things we already know about him, that should leave this behavior as understandable, if uncomfortable to witness. If for no other reason, we have learned in Jetrel, that the fear that Neelix surrendered to in not participating in the defense of Rinax and the subsequent loss of his family, left him guilty for having survived and probably habituated him to an itinerant life of no consequence, as he saw himself as having no real worth. To have then found Kes, by happenstance, to have realized immediately her specialness, and amazingly to be found worthy of her love, turned his life around.

For him to see things that weren't there and one that was, would hardly be surprising in view of how this unwarranted gift, as he perceived it, might have been in danger of being lost, not yet believing that within himself, there was all that Kes sought, at least at that time. As for his behavior on the planet, it was Neelix that emphasized the utter obligation to shepherd a helpless lifeform to a chance for life and health. In the interim, he brought himself to a place that he could hear Tom's story for what it was and even after the latter's admission of attraction to Kes, was able to allow for the beginnings of a friendship that would endure, and reflected the compassion he would come to show many others during his time on Voyager.

The contention that he denied the need for the climbing gear in Blood Fever is factually inaccurate, as he was equipped like the others and per Tom, had used it properly, the accident being a malfunction of the piton, not negligence.

While the consequences were more than serious, I believe that the cheese mishap was actually written in as a comic subplot, one that I don't think was meant to hammer home a unmistakable contention of Neelix's foolishness or lack of knowledge, but that an unforeseen error of such a seeming improbable and/or insignificant cause could result in something so threatening on such a sophisticated vessel. On the other hand, one shouldn't forget the impact that his counsel had on Tuvok when it appeared that the latter's efforts with his Maquis charges was going nowhere. This was yet another example of Neelix's wisdom that was uncovered with time and played a significant role in helping a member of the crew cope with what might have seemed an insoluble situation otherwise.

I won't expound on any other specific examples here, but my main contention concerning the character is that simply allowing a judgement based on surface qualities to become the predominant POV that one gets accustomed to and expects to view, does a strong disservice to his actual number of virtues and the enjoyment inherent in being open to discovering them for oneself. I would lastly emphasize that TPTB appeared to see him as the breakout character on the show, hardly a judgement that they would have arrived at if their intention from the beginning, was to portray him as a buffoon!
 
23776736990_2da1e84836.jpg


Without rebooting the entire cast, or anything, I feel it might've helped the show considerably, if they'd gone with the above look and attitude, instead. Make up any excuse for the crew to go casual, or at least to take off those unattractive uniforms and let them wear sexy clothes, for a change. It would've worked extremely well, had Rick Berman just let VOY be edgier ...
 
I would have kept the original crew, with Kes and Neelix remaining on the ship the whole series.



But I would like to have a Tamarian in the crew!

Imagine the following comment in the mess hall full with people: "Janeway and Paris on Lizard planet!" :lol:
 
23776736990_2da1e84836.jpg


Without rebooting the entire cast, or anything, I feel it might've helped the show considerably, if they'd gone with the above look and attitude, instead. Make up any excuse for the crew to go casual, or at least to take off those unattractive uniforms and let them wear sexy clothes, for a change. It would've worked extremely well, had Rick Berman just let VOY be edgier ...

Rick Berman or UPN?


They are an attractive looking bunch aren't they. :)
 
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