How would you change the show?
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
- Start date
Change the show? Easy. Move the VOY crew's adventures back to the AQ after season 5.
The Delta Quadrant adventures had pretty much run their course by season 5. Nothing really happens or changes with VOY's struggle in the last two seasons. DS9 was off the air by the time VOY came back for season 6. After the 1999 summer break.
Let VOY do it's thing in the AQ. Reacclimating to a post-Dominion War UFP. The former Maqui members dealing with being the only survivors of their lost cause. People looking to Janeway and Seven for new tactical advantages against the Borg. As the Fed is now more militant. Crossover and guest spots with the crew of the ENT and checking in with the crew of DS9. Adventures in the Gamma quadrant.
Looking at the episodes that make up season 6 and 7 of VOY. Most of them are pretty generic and could've been done in any sector of the galaxy. The novelty of exploring uncharted space VOY started out with had long worn off.
The Delta Quadrant adventures had pretty much run their course by season 5. Nothing really happens or changes with VOY's struggle in the last two seasons. DS9 was off the air by the time VOY came back for season 6. After the 1999 summer break.
Let VOY do it's thing in the AQ. Reacclimating to a post-Dominion War UFP. The former Maqui members dealing with being the only survivors of their lost cause. People looking to Janeway and Seven for new tactical advantages against the Borg. As the Fed is now more militant. Crossover and guest spots with the crew of the ENT and checking in with the crew of DS9. Adventures in the Gamma quadrant.
Looking at the episodes that make up season 6 and 7 of VOY. Most of them are pretty generic and could've been done in any sector of the galaxy. The novelty of exploring uncharted space VOY started out with had long worn off.
That could have worked if they were willing to adopt a more serialized format, and not keep hammering the Big Red Reset Button. But if they'd been willing to go there, then remaining in the Delta Quadrant probably would have worked for them too.
First, I would have stuck more with the premises introduced in the pilot. Kept up the Starfleet-Maquis tension. Stuck with the concept of “38 photon torpedoes and no way to replace them.”
Also, I’d have like to seen some wrestling with the command structure given their unique situation. Tuvix, for example: If this had happened in the AQ, Tuvix could have gone over Janeway’s head and appealed to Starfleet Command for protection. But in the DQ, Janeway is an absolute dictator, answerable to no one. That’s not something Starfleet ever intended their Captains to be. There should have been, at the very least, some discussions of finding ways to put a check on the Captain’s authority.
Also, I’d have like to seen some wrestling with the command structure given their unique situation. Tuvix, for example: If this had happened in the AQ, Tuvix could have gone over Janeway’s head and appealed to Starfleet Command for protection. But in the DQ, Janeway is an absolute dictator, answerable to no one. That’s not something Starfleet ever intended their Captains to be. There should have been, at the very least, some discussions of finding ways to put a check on the Captain’s authority.
There are a number of ways they could have intelligently resolved the "38 photons" issue.
1. Ration out 38 or fewer torpedoes. Maybe have them run out near the end, and have to settle for phasers and whatever non-photonic explosives Voyager can manufacture.
2. Do some throwaway dialogue that changes this. Maybe Voyager traded for a new industrial replicator that can produce antimatter warhead components. Or Seven adapts some Borg replication technology from a long assimilated race. Just a quick technobabble explanation, and then boom boom to your heart's content.
3. Have it be a bigger deal. Maybe Voyager is dealing with a race that doesn't have certain technology, but can supply them with a boatload of compatible ordnance. Janeway refuses to trade, but someone else goes behind her back. By the time Janeway realizes what's happened, the other guys have gotten away with the tech, and left a couple pallets of photons in the cargo bay, so it's too late to undo the trade (maybe that's why Tom gets bumped down to ensign and thrown in the brig). Afterwards, Janeway can howl about the principles of Starfleet mattering more than saving their lives... she's still going to reload the torpedo tubes. They could even have the torpedo graphics be a different color from now on, to show that this is adapted tech instead of Starfleet issue weapons.
1. Ration out 38 or fewer torpedoes. Maybe have them run out near the end, and have to settle for phasers and whatever non-photonic explosives Voyager can manufacture.
2. Do some throwaway dialogue that changes this. Maybe Voyager traded for a new industrial replicator that can produce antimatter warhead components. Or Seven adapts some Borg replication technology from a long assimilated race. Just a quick technobabble explanation, and then boom boom to your heart's content.
3. Have it be a bigger deal. Maybe Voyager is dealing with a race that doesn't have certain technology, but can supply them with a boatload of compatible ordnance. Janeway refuses to trade, but someone else goes behind her back. By the time Janeway realizes what's happened, the other guys have gotten away with the tech, and left a couple pallets of photons in the cargo bay, so it's too late to undo the trade (maybe that's why Tom gets bumped down to ensign and thrown in the brig). Afterwards, Janeway can howl about the principles of Starfleet mattering more than saving their lives... she's still going to reload the torpedo tubes. They could even have the torpedo graphics be a different color from now on, to show that this is adapted tech instead of Starfleet issue weapons.
V
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Guest
In fact most Irish don't have red hair – while Ireland has the highest population percentage of redheads in the world, it's still only around 15%.
I'd probably have the ship undergo greater hardships. We saw what happened to the Equinox. Now maybe not that bad, but Voyager should have faced more hardship than it did outside a few episodes. A lot of the time you would hardly know Voyager was all by itself. Eventually they even dropped the replicator rations plot.
I also agree that there should have been more tension between the Starfleet and Maquis crew members. Once you get past the 2nd episode that seems almost forgotten outside a few scattered episodes here and there. I think there should have been a lot more mistrust to start, and as the show went on have the two crews gradually start to respect and trust one another over time. Maybe by the 3rd season have them start getting along as a unified crew. I wouldn't have carried tension over the full 7 seasons. But at least the first 2 seasons or so there should have been some tension.
I also agree that there should have been more tension between the Starfleet and Maquis crew members. Once you get past the 2nd episode that seems almost forgotten outside a few scattered episodes here and there. I think there should have been a lot more mistrust to start, and as the show went on have the two crews gradually start to respect and trust one another over time. Maybe by the 3rd season have them start getting along as a unified crew. I wouldn't have carried tension over the full 7 seasons. But at least the first 2 seasons or so there should have been some tension.
Though many people have their own unique views, there do seem to be some recurring themes.
More Starfleet/Maquis conflict. Considering that this was one of the core themes of the show, it's almost self explanatory. By having them integrate in so easily, Voyager probably destroyed a sizable percentage of B'Elanna's potential evolution as a character just by having her in uniform and installed as chief engineer so early. Chakotay arguably lost even more.
More Deprivations. At the start of the series, Voyager couldn't even pop out a cup of joe without straining its resources. By the end, it seemed to have an unlimited supply of everything from coffee to Delta Flyers. And they never explained why.
Keep Kes. Deep Space 9, as its final episodes aired, was adroitly juggling nine "main" characters and at least fifteen "recurring" ones. These characters were, by and large, memorable and well developed. If DS9 could handle 20-something, surely Voyager could manage ten.
Eliminate Neelix, Harry, and/or Chakotay. Given that Neelix wasn't exactly popular, Chakotay's potential avenues of development had been dumped (and his character was built by a fraud), and Harry was basically a redshirt who had managed to dodge the Reaper a few times... would their elimination have affected the show much? If Harry had died before his low rank became so ridiculous, would anyone have really noticed he was there? Would having Chakotay suddenly snuffed out a la Tasha Yar have given the show's "character in danger" plots more tension? Remember, TNG had seven main cast members; so why couldn't Voyager?
A better finale. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it was a slap in the face to find out what happened to everyone... then have it yanked away and replaced with nothing. About all we canonically know is:
Janeway was quickly promoted to Vice Admiral, and was the model for the Training Hologram implemented on later ships.
Spoilers for multiple modern Treks follow...
More Starfleet/Maquis conflict. Considering that this was one of the core themes of the show, it's almost self explanatory. By having them integrate in so easily, Voyager probably destroyed a sizable percentage of B'Elanna's potential evolution as a character just by having her in uniform and installed as chief engineer so early. Chakotay arguably lost even more.
More Deprivations. At the start of the series, Voyager couldn't even pop out a cup of joe without straining its resources. By the end, it seemed to have an unlimited supply of everything from coffee to Delta Flyers. And they never explained why.
Keep Kes. Deep Space 9, as its final episodes aired, was adroitly juggling nine "main" characters and at least fifteen "recurring" ones. These characters were, by and large, memorable and well developed. If DS9 could handle 20-something, surely Voyager could manage ten.
Eliminate Neelix, Harry, and/or Chakotay. Given that Neelix wasn't exactly popular, Chakotay's potential avenues of development had been dumped (and his character was built by a fraud), and Harry was basically a redshirt who had managed to dodge the Reaper a few times... would their elimination have affected the show much? If Harry had died before his low rank became so ridiculous, would anyone have really noticed he was there? Would having Chakotay suddenly snuffed out a la Tasha Yar have given the show's "character in danger" plots more tension? Remember, TNG had seven main cast members; so why couldn't Voyager?
A better finale. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it was a slap in the face to find out what happened to everyone... then have it yanked away and replaced with nothing. About all we canonically know is:
Janeway was quickly promoted to Vice Admiral, and was the model for the Training Hologram implemented on later ships.
Spoilers for multiple modern Treks follow...
Chakotay was the captain of the experimental USS Protostar.
Tom Paris was a lieutenant, assignment unknown.
Seven was a Fenris Ranger and later joined Picard's crew.
Icheb was tortured and later died as a result.
Tom Paris was a lieutenant, assignment unknown.
Seven was a Fenris Ranger and later joined Picard's crew.
Icheb was tortured and later died as a result.
They probably could ... if the budget permitted it.
I don't know what's more pathetic about that: Roma Downey being called "not Irish enough", or the fact that they actualy expect us to believe that real Irish actors were ever used for those stupid ads.
I mean, nobody seriously believes that real Australians have anything to do with Outback Steakhouse, right? Same story here.
(And don't even get the Aussies started on
ing Foster's...)
I would have added more overall peril, with no reset buttons. Torpedoes and shuttles are limited. They have to do a lot more trade and commerce for supplies they need. And there's somewhat of a rotating cast as characters come aboard for a season or two and then leave when they get to their own destination. And more characters die. I mean characters that we actually care about, not just background characters who we may have seen a couple times a few seasons back and then they suddenly show up out of the blue again just to die.
Kor
Kor
Totally. Voyager was supposed to be a family, but it felt like nine main characters, ten counting Naomi, and a whole lot of non-entities. We didn't even have a proper alien/human ratio, just a whole lotta cookie cutter, recruiting poster, insert random extra here humans.
Let me give an example: the scene where Janeway goes into a killing rage in "Scientific Method", because a random crewman goes down. We feel it because Kate Mulgrew can act like no tomorrow, but...think about the impact if that rando had been someone we'd seen before, someone with a name, someone with a personality. Someone whose loss would be felt.
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Guest
I think other good examples of this are Ahni Jetal and Lyndsay Ballard. They're apparently popular members of the crew who are friendly with the senior officers, but we never even so much as hear their names for years until their respective "we need to have an episode focusing on someone who's died" episodes.
I don't know what's more pathetic about that: Roma Downey being called "not Irish enough", or the fact that they actualy expect us to believe that real Irish actors were ever used for those stupid ads.
I mean, nobody seriously believes that real Australians have anything to do with Outback Steakhouse, right? Same story here.
(And don't even get the Aussies started on
They drink VB (Peta Wilson said so
)
One of the Delaney sisters would have fit well - we don't know them massively but they were referenced often enough through the years to mean something.
Or someone like Chell who had a bit of development but would also not have required any major effort to kill off
Chell could have died while preparing his 'Warp Core-don Bleu'...
I actually have two tiers with a number of issues. The first is basically "this would have made the show better", which generally indicates a sizable change. The second is "this was an insult to the viewer's intelligence."
The example that best comes to mind is the torpedoes, so:
Tier 1: Actually ration out 38 torpedoes in 7 years. Takes some doing, some thought.
Tier 2: Spend 15 seconds on some dialogue about a "new industrial replicator" or an "antimatter nebula" or "doing business with the Quartelixonian Cartel" that allows Voyager to manufaxture or acquire more torpedoes. The inconsistency is explained satisfactorily, and everyone goes away happy.
If you read my thread on fixing inconsistencies with seconds of dialogue, you see that it is possible to resolve: infinite torpedoes, gobs of shuttles and Delta Flyers, Harry's rank, Voyager's travel time, the one-person autodestruct, Neelix's miraculous revival, the vanishing Borg baby, Kes's Elogium paradox, and the existence of the abomination that is "Threshold"... all with under three minutes of dialogue.
I'm not saying an actual 38-torpedo limit... or having Harry actually be an alien, or watching the Borg baby grow into a toddler... wouldn't have been cool. But they could have made what they did do plausible, with relatively little effort.
The example that best comes to mind is the torpedoes, so:
Tier 1: Actually ration out 38 torpedoes in 7 years. Takes some doing, some thought.
Tier 2: Spend 15 seconds on some dialogue about a "new industrial replicator" or an "antimatter nebula" or "doing business with the Quartelixonian Cartel" that allows Voyager to manufaxture or acquire more torpedoes. The inconsistency is explained satisfactorily, and everyone goes away happy.
If you read my thread on fixing inconsistencies with seconds of dialogue, you see that it is possible to resolve: infinite torpedoes, gobs of shuttles and Delta Flyers, Harry's rank, Voyager's travel time, the one-person autodestruct, Neelix's miraculous revival, the vanishing Borg baby, Kes's Elogium paradox, and the existence of the abomination that is "Threshold"... all with under three minutes of dialogue.
I'm not saying an actual 38-torpedo limit... or having Harry actually be an alien, or watching the Borg baby grow into a toddler... wouldn't have been cool. But they could have made what they did do plausible, with relatively little effort.
I would have liked to at least see the crew more willing to, more visibly and often, engage in trading and bartering with other species for resources. Janeway's no alliances, initially no tech trading approach was really offputting.
One little thing that always kinda bugged me, and this is going to be somewhat offensive so shields up, is Neelix’s weight. I think the makeup looked better on him when he was skinnier earlier on. Also they added more yellow to the sides of his head and it didn’t work for me. If I’m God, I’d keep him how he looked in the pilot. And if he does gain weight I’d address it — have it speak to how comfortable his life is now compared to before. Heck, if that’s the case, maybe he needed a fat suit and to be written more Falstaffian.
Anyway, a more interesting way I’d change it is to redo the effects. I’d upgrade it to HD and make the effects a bit more epic to further sell this lone little ship’s adventures in bizarre distant space, full of exotic new alien technologies and strange new stellar phenomena. Replace all the reused models and backgrounds, expand the fleet shots, CG in more weird background aliens, punch up the ship maneuvers and camera angles, that sort of thing.
Anyway, a more interesting way I’d change it is to redo the effects. I’d upgrade it to HD and make the effects a bit more epic to further sell this lone little ship’s adventures in bizarre distant space, full of exotic new alien technologies and strange new stellar phenomena. Replace all the reused models and backgrounds, expand the fleet shots, CG in more weird background aliens, punch up the ship maneuvers and camera angles, that sort of thing.
Neelix's chubbiness actually works for me. In "Fair Trade", it's revealed that his life on Voyager is very different from the hardscrabble life he was used to. Good food, comfortable quarters, and the protection of a well-armed vessel... maybe it would make him a bit more prosperous.
I remember the end of "Fair Trade", and how Janeway "punishes" him. I don't think anyone was ever so glad to wind up scrubbing a deuterium matrix, and why not? He knows that what he really feared is not going to happen.
I remember the end of "Fair Trade", and how Janeway "punishes" him. I don't think anyone was ever so glad to wind up scrubbing a deuterium matrix, and why not? He knows that what he really feared is not going to happen.
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