How would you change the show?

[Oddish]

Given that "Before and After" did so many things right that the canon show did wrong, maybe make the true timeline more like it.
* An actual year of hell. Massive repairs afterward.
* Doc gets a name. Maybe have him experiment with different hairstyles, too... a mullet, maybe?
* Neelix gets a gold uniform. Kes gets a blue one.
* Harry gets promoted, as do others. The Maquis adopt normal rank insignia.
* Don't kill Janeway, but kill off at least one major character... Chakotay probably. Seven takes his place in the lineup.
* Maybe have Linnis born round about S5, but she matures somewhat slower because she's half human. Have the EMH suggest that she'll enjoy something close to a normal human lifespan.
* Linnis is still equivalent to a young teen when the series ends. The thing with her and Harry would just be too awkward to actually play out at normal speed.

 

[at Quark's]

Given that "Before and After" did so many things right that the canon show did wrong, maybe make the true timeline more like it.
* An actual year of hell. Massive repairs afterward.

Perhaps, but I still think it would need to have lighter episodes as breathers, too. If you don't, it might become a bit too heavy for comfortable viewing (I had this experience with S3 of Enterprise, which was almost exclusively about finding the responsible Xindi).

* Don't kill Janeway, but kill off at least one major character... Chakotay probably. Seven takes his place in the lineup.

Why not kill her? It would force an increasingly neglected character (Chakotay) to step up to the challenge and it would show they dared to take risks, which would be interesting, story-wise. (I agree that from a series execution point of view, killing off Janeway would have been bad, though).

* Doc gets a name. Maybe have him experiment with different hairstyles, too... a mullet, maybe?
* Neelix gets a gold uniform. Kes gets a blue one.
* Harry gets promoted, as do others. The Maquis adopt normal rank insignia.
* Maybe have Linnis born round about S5, but she matures somewhat slower because she's half human. Have the EMH suggest that she'll enjoy something close to a normal human lifespan.
* Linnis is still equivalent to a young teen when the series ends. The thing with her and Harry would just be too awkward to actually play out at normal speed.

Those are all perfectly fine with me.

 

[Oddish]

Why not kill her? It would force an increasingly neglected character (Chakotay) to step up to the challenge and it would show they dared to take risks, which would be interesting, story-wise. (I agree that from a series execution point of view, killing off Janeway would have been bad, though).

I understand that one, killing a captain might be going a little too far, given that this was Berman Trek, which only perma-killed two cast members (and brought both back, one via alternate timeline and one via slug transplant). A first officer would be easier. And second, you answered your own question, re series execution.

Another thing to consider regarding things to change, let's look at what I see at the show's most ridiculous mistakes. These are in no particular order, since it's really an apples to oranges comparison:

1. First season: it took half the season to get Tom and Tuvok's rank insignia right.
2. Second season: Threshold. Orange salamanders. Nuff said.
3. Fifth season: Not spending mere seconds explaining why Voyager suddenly had an endless supply of torpedoes. And shuttles. And replicator energy.
4. Last season: Spending half the finale showing us what didn't happen to the crew, then deleting the timeline and never telling us what did.
5. Last five seasons: Harry's low rank. No reason for it.

 

[Vale]

I understand that one, killing a captain might be going a little too far, given that this was Berman Trek, which only perma-killed two cast members (and brought both back, one via alternate timeline and one via slug transplant). A first officer would be easier. And second, you answered your own question, re series execution.

Another thing to consider regarding things to change, let's look at what I see at the show's most ridiculous mistakes. These are in no particular order, since it's really an apples to oranges comparison:

1. First season: it took half the season to get Tom and Tuvok's rank insignia right.
2. Second season: Threshold. Orange salamanders. Nuff said.
3. Fifth season: Not spending mere seconds explaining why Voyager suddenly had an endless supply of torpedoes. And shuttles. And replicator energy.
4. Last season: Spending half the finale showing us what didn't happen to the crew, then deleting the timeline and never telling us what did.
5. Last five seasons: Harry's low rank. No reason for it.

First and second seasons: the Kazon were interminable, and particularly in the second season that "we have a traitor in our midst" BS was so boring.

 

[at Quark's]

True about the Kazon. While Voyager is supposed to hightail it out of there trying to get home as fast as possible, only stopping for restocking and repairs, not only do they keep meeting Kazon, but they keep meeting the very same Kazon episode after episode, which is amazing given that they are resource poor, are fighting among themselves, and supposedly have inferior ships (even though they are more numerous).

That, or for some reason Voyager failed to made any serious progress towards the AQ in the first two seasons, which I also don't consider out of the question, given the ridiculous amount of times they got sidetracked by something they could have well steered clear of (read: most weekly episodes).

 

[Farscape One]

Encountering the Kazon as often as they did, on the surface, is ridiculous.

But when you look at certain episodes and dialogue, it actually makes sense. And both occur after Seska leaves Voyager.

"JETREL" - While it was not stated exactly how much a 'significant detour' it was to travel to Talax, the fact Chakotay mentions it must mean it's a fair distance. That slowed them down, giving Seska time to work her plan in "MANEUVERS".

"RESOLUTIONS" - At least 15 weeks worth of progress heading home was wasted. 3 weeks staying in orbit with The Doctor looking for a cure, 6 weeks travel away, and 6 weeks heading back to the planet after getting the cure. That's basically 4 months of not going nowhere. That episode alone was enough time for Seska to hatch her plan and the baby in "BASICS, PART I".

 

[suarezguy]

4. Last season: Spending half the finale showing us what didn't happen to the crew, then deleting the timeline and never telling us what did.

There is a case for leaving some specifics to the imagination rather than trying to cram what happened in the next year or much more into fifteen minutes or even one or two episodes. I'm pretty sure the intention was that most of what really happened was pretty similar to what had originally happened.

 

[Oddish]

21 years, and we still don't know what happened to half the characters (Ok, 4/9, but close enough).

 

[MarkusTay]

I would probably add more aliens joining the crew. They need more crew, and it would make some sense to bring back people from other cultures for Starfleet to debrief... errr... I mean 'speak with'. Of course, budget-restraints and all that. the crew should look like a pasted-together group of outcasts and survivors by the time they got home.

As for the stuff above, I would be more inclined to do away with Chakotay than Janeway, because they didn't seem to know what to do with him. However, having him 'step up' might be good, so long as we got a holographic Janeway to give him advice every so often (images of Dexter come to mind). The crew might even think he's losing it.
Do something different with Kes - she was supposed to be Neelix, but they loved that actor so much (I think he read for the Doctor's part, IIRC), that they gave him all her stuff, but they already had hired her, so they had no idea what to do with her. She was supposed to be a Sacagawea-in-space kind of character, before they created Neelix just to give that other actor a role. Once he stole her spotlight, she became redundant and useless. I feel like she was done dirty.

Get rid of most of the holodek stuff - its filler, and annoying. Just use the holodek tech when its important to the plot of a regular episode. The 'we live in the holodek' has already been done to death.
Create an arch-villain (other then Mr. Mxyzptlk 'Q') in the first season, that they barely manage to get away from. Someone who even the Borg haven't been able to capture/stop. Then, after maybe a two-parter with him/her/it, forget about them... until a two-part season two finale where HE'S BACK. Then have it be a recurring character thats chasing them, and keeps screwing up things for them, like negotiations. And in the end, when they finally get to the Borg Trans-warp thingy, have it be THAT character that decides to stay and blow up the network, rather than 'future Janeway' (because if they got home, she would have never come, and thats a paradox). Never turning 'good', but in the end the 'villain' gets their redemption, by putting the Gamma Quadrant's future above their own selfish wants. This way Janeway gets a Nemesis. A smart one that CAN out-class her (unlike the silly Kazon). And Janeway and them saluting on-screen, as in "You have been a worthy opponent" kind of way. Now THAT would have been good TV.

 

[suarezguy]

Would it have been better or worse if there had also been more romantic interest between Harry and B'Elanna and therefore at least for a time love triangle with them and Tom (probably seasons 2 and 3)? Or if B'Elanna had ended up choosing Harry (instead of "Day of Honor")?

 

[Oddish]

While I think that the romance with B'Elanna was good for Tom, a B'Elanna/Harry pairing could have worked. It would have been especially effective if tensions had continued to flare between the Starfleet and Maquis factions, a bit of the "star-crossed lovers" vibe, but with a happier ending than the play of 800y before.

Funny thing about the Kazon... I think I read somewhere that a Kazon ship is good for Warp 5, or 189c. Voyager cruises at warp 8, which is over five times faster. And if she wants to scurry, she can do 9.975 (5100c) for short bursts. That's like a sports car being pursued by five-year-olds on tricycles. So... why did Voyager ever have to exchange fire with those slowpokes?

 

[Dee1891]

I think the series, like TNG and DS9, should have been a little more precise about dates and passage of time.

While I think that the romance with B'Elanna was good for Tom, a B'Elanna/Harry pairing could have worked. It would have been especially effective if tensions had continued to flare between the Starfleet and Maquis factions, a bit of the "star-crossed lovers" vibe, but with a happier ending than the play of 800y before.

I hate to say this, but I think B'Elanna would have curb stomped Harry at one time or another during their marriage. I think they were better off as friends. I'm not saying that Harry was weak. He wasn't. But I think she would have been a little too much for him.

 

[Oddish]

Consider his reaction to an amorous Klingon in "Prophecy", you may be right.

 

[MarkusTay]

Personally, I don't really care for the ship-board romances. I feel like they're always contrived. I realize this is Star Trek, but Kirk's 'romance of the week' was a product of the culture at the time, and I feel it made many of the crew seem less professional (not just Voy, but ALL the shows). I'd give Enterprise a pass, only because its supposed to take place in those same early, unprofessional years of Starfleet. But 7-of-9 pining for Chokotay and making him picnics... my stomach churns. And not a single one of those men aboard that ship were 'man enough' for a Klingon woman. I don't think any of those worked for me. Strangely, I was disappointed that nothing developed between Janeway and Chokotay... he seems to have a thing for cold, robotic women. And what happens in the Delta Quadrant, STAYS in the Delta Quadrant. Just ask Paris & Janeway. LOL

And they could have been home in just a few months if Janeway didn't have to stop at every Nebula looking for coffee. Addiction is a terrible thing... they really needed an intervention there.

 

[Oddish]

Strangely, I was disappointed that nothing developed between Janeway and Chokotay... he seems to have a thing for cold, robotic women.

I think something did happen, in "Resolutions", during the six weeks it took Voyager to get back. They just didn't talk about it afterward.

And they could have been home in just a few months if Janeway didn't have to stop at every Nebula looking for coffee.

But after awhile, that wasn't an issue anymore. By Season 5, Voyager was able to pull a 21-meter Warp 7 shuttlecraft out of its proverbial butt, never mind an eight-ounce mug of joe.

 

[MarkusTay]

I actually started a complete re-watch of Voy. last night, and yeah, I thought twice they were about to solve their energy needs but didn't. I did notice something extremely questionable but thats fuel for another thread.

I only started the rewatch because people have mentioned the stupidity that in the ST universe the humans have never invented 'Time Bombs'. It sucks, because I liked the pilot, but now that I am in 'pick apart' mode, damn... so much wrong. Even little things, like Chokotay constantly moving around his broken leg and not screaming in pain (must be the 'Indian' upbringing, which is uncomfortably brought up several times in a derogatory manner). And B'lanna's almost immediate 180 when Janeway likes her (Do Klingons have 'Mommy Issues'?) I think that actually happens in the first post-pilot episode. Paris also flip-flops too quickly - they needed to stretch the "we must come together as a family" thing across the entire first season. I just feel the Federation's amazing 'assimilation powers' again. On the other hand, I actually like Janeway & Chokotay's personalities in these first episodes - there was tension, and Janeway seemed much more human. Somehow, they both became more 2-dimensional over time.

And to bring this back around to the actual topic, I think a big fail of the series it that it wanted to be like TOS and TNG (with exploration), but went too hard on Lost in Space. I don't mean the concept, I mean the silly 1960's show. Having them struggling to get home, in a dark, Battlestar Galactica kind of way would have been cool. But what we got was mostly 'Will Robinson and his Robot's wacky adventures'. Not those exact characters, but more of 'that flavor'. "Neelix, do NOT go outside the perimeter" Neelix "Okay... but there's some cool stuff over here..." Chokotay "Neelix, don't do it... stay in the perimeter..." Neelix "Sure, sure... but I'm just gonna go over here a little bit more, and do some more stuff you say not to.."
Next scene: Neelix ain't got no lungs.
On the other hand, I absolutely loved Janeway's reaction to the Vidiians. Very well done.

 

[Oddish]

only started the rewatch because people have mentioned the stupidity that in the ST universe the humans have never invented 'Time Bombs'.

Actually, Janeway rediscovered them in "Macrocosm". Complete with that 80's movie digital timer!

And B'lanna's almost immediate 180 when Janeway likes her (do Klingons have 'Mommy Issues'?) I think that actually happens in the first post-pilot episode.

Don't get me started... B'Elanna assaults a superior officer... and she gets frickin' promoted for that?! Maybe Harry should've taken a poke at someone!

On the other hand, I actually like Janeway & Chokotay's personalities in these first episodes - there was tension, and Janeway seemed much more human.

I liked their chemistry.

 

[suarezguy]

I actually like Janeway & Chokotay's personalities in these first episodes - there was tension, and Janeway seemed much more human. Somehow, they both became more 2-dimensional over time.

Something that notably irked me in season 2 was them telling Paris he looked terrible/unprofessional when his uniform was untucked by about one-third of an inch.

 

[Oddish]

Was that during the "Tom the malcontent" arc?

 

[suarezguy]

^Yes, the writers straining hard to try to show any less-than-perfection in and resulting conflict between the characters and instead just showing how overly-idealized, conflict-averse (and also kind of intolerant of imperfection) they had gotten.