How would you change the show?

[Oddish]

Actually, I would have liked to see them ditch the uniforms altogether and just wear civilian attire. It's not like anyone in the Delta Quadrant cared that they were Starfleet officers from the Federation.

I can think of both in- and out-of-universe explanations for why...

In:
* Starfleet uniforms are durable and comfortable under a wide variety of conditions. Probably easy to clean, too.
* It's what 3/4 of the crew are used to.
* To reinforce the quasi-military command structure of Starfleet for the outsiders.

Out:
* So that channel surfing viewers would know it was Star Trek.
* So that the viewers would know who the captain was (this was the first Trek series with a woman captain).

There is no in-universe explanation for why Neelix and Kes weren't in uniform. The only explanation I can think of was that they didn't want all of the main cast to have a uniform "look", just most of them and all of the extras.

While I personally like my "37's" compromise better, I can at least understand why they went to uniforms right away.

 

[Dukhat]

I can think of both in- and out-of-universe explanations for why...

In:
* Starfleet uniforms are durable and comfortable under a wide variety of conditions. Probably easy to clean, too.
* It's what 3/4 of the crew are used to.
* To reinforce the quasi-military command structure of Starfleet for the outsiders.

Well, let's look at this logically:

*Starfleet uniforms are replicated. If they're trying to conserve power, then they'd need to wear the same uniform without making new ones.
*If they wear the same uniform continuously, it's going to get worn out.
*Wearing different civilian attire they pick up on various planets saves them energy and they don't have to wear worn-out uniforms.

Out:
* So that channel surfing viewers would know it was Star Trek.
* So that the viewers would know who the captain was (this was the first Trek series with a woman captain).

*The audience isn't that stupid to not be able to figure out that it's a Star Trek show just because the cast isn't wearing uniforms.
*Ditto for the captain. You know, the rest of the crew calls her 'captain.' One would think that would be a dead giveaway.

 

[Farscape One]

Keep in mind it's the UPN suits that tended to think the audience was stupid.

Had the suits left VGR and ENT alone, I really think a good chunk of the issues either wouldn't have existed or been solved by the second or third season.

 

[fireproof78]

n:
* Starfleet uniforms are durable and comfortable under a wide variety of conditions. Probably easy to clean, too.
* It's what 3/4 of the crew are used to.
* To reinforce the quasi-military command structure of Starfleet for the outsiders.

I think a measure of crew solidarity and identity would be important, at least early on.

 

[Oddish]

I think a measure of crew solidarity and identity would be important, at least early on.

That too.

 

[Anwar]

She shouldn't be. That's the point

So the first female Starfleet Captain in a major role and...she has to be the only one who has to put up with this.

Meanwhile if it was Kirk or Picard in command they'd get the Maquis to fall in line lickity-split.

Agreed. I think that the first season could quite easily explore this intership conflict, as well as learning about the quadrant, and trying to get a map of the region, which Neelix helps out with due to his familiarity, and contacts, both inside the Kazon and with other planets. Along the way they encounter issues that create conflict between the Maquis and Captain Janeway because there are easier ways to solve the problem, including managing a combined crew who are reluctant to work together, or abide by Starfleet regulations. Think like O'Brien explaining a secondary backup to the Cardassians.

Meanwhile, Janeway is trying to catalog as much data as possible from the Delta Quadrant, in anticipation of Starfleet returning. They send out probes, and those probes cause issues. Conflict arises with local powers, Kazon steals one, etc.

Lots of conflict, leading up to the 37s planet and finally hitting that new one crew status.

So in other words, wrap it up within 1 season.

 

[fireproof78]

So the first female Starfleet Captain in a major role and...she has to be the only one who has to put up with this.

One, it's her first command, by her own admission.

Two, the other characters did not deal with this which, again to reiterate, is the whole point of this show. To do something different, not the same old, same old. If you are constantly looking at WWKD or WWPD then you will be disappointed, every time.

Instead, take the unique circumstances of the situation, you know that thing that was set up in the first episode, and work with it as a strength, rather than treat it as a stone around your neck.

So in other words, wrap it up within 1 season.

Yes, which was stated previously.

 

[at Quark's]

And that's the fundamental problem. "Caretaker, Part II" should have ended with Chakotay saying, "You need 150 people to run this ship to get home. You have 100. We have 50. You can't get home without us, and that means we should get a say in how this ship is run instead of it just being Starfleet's way or the highway. If you want us to join your crew so we both get home, then we need to run Voyager as a joint Starfleet-Maquis ship, not a Starfleet ship with officers who used to be Maquis. That means my people don't wear Starfleet uniforms and aren't held to the Starfleet Uniform Code of Justice. That means you and me need to agree on command decisions if there isn't a crisis where one person has to make quick judgment calls. And that means Voyager's commanding and executive officers should be accountable to a legislative council elected by the entire ship's compliment, including passengers."

Makes one wonder how that Caretaker discussion Janeway recaps as " That's why Commander Chakotay and I have agreed that this should be one crew. A Starfleet crew. " actually went over, doesn't it?

Chakotay advancing these arguments you give and Janeway simply replying: "Computer, disable transporters, block access to shuttlebay with level nine forcefields, and disable emergency ejection pods. Set autodestruct sequence to one minute. It's going to be a Starfleet crew, I will be the captain, you will serve under me or we all die right here and now" ?

But seriously, how did she convince him?

 

[Oddish]

Meanwhile if it was Kirk or Picard in command they'd get the Maquis to fall in line lickity-split.

Kirk never faces them, but consider:
Picard sends a deep cover operative to infiltrate the Maquis... she promptly turns traitor and joins them for real.
Sisko gets completely fooled by a Maquis operative multiple times. He finally stops him... by poisoning a planet.
Janeway goes up against 30 Maquis... and they're eating out of her hand in a year.

 

[fireproof78]

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[at Quark's]

So the first female Starfleet Captain in a major role and...she has to be the only one who has to put up with this.

Yes. Not because she's the first female Starfleet Captain in a major role, but because the premise of the show sets up this situation of a mixed crew of uncertain loyalty. Had Janeway been written as TNG's captain, and Picard as Voyager's captain, I would have expected Picard to have to handle that problem.

 

[Sci]

That should be more the Maquis coming up with their own uniform style rather than the Fleeters changing anything. Their way of saying "Okay, we'll become more of a proper crew but he'll dress in our own uniform style thank you very much". The Fleeters giving up their uniforms is too much of a concession.

I could see that at first, but I would eventually want to move to both sides adopting some kind of uniform practice that's neither Starfleet nor Maquis. Because, realistically, a crew of 150 people stuck on a 344-meter tin can for what they believed to be the next seventy years of their lives, would stop being Starfleet and stop being Maquis. Their respective "cultures" would realistically mix into something new.

This is still ignoring the bigger issue that they need a real plot to drive the story and not "Lost crew trying to get home" because that gets too boring after a while too.

I do agree that Star Trek: Voyager needed something more than just "trying to get home." And in fact, complications over how to handle whatever plot developments occur could be an incitement for disagreements between different factions in the ship's parliament.

So the first female Starfleet Captain in a major role and...she has to be the only one who has to put up with this.

I don't agree with the idea that Janeway being answerable to a democratically-elected ship's parliament or having to compromise with Maquis undermines her metatextual authority as a lead character. I think a captain who is capable of bringing competing factions together and uniting them behind her leadership, democratically, is a stronger leader than previous captains.

Like, this arc wouldn't work unless you can sell the idea that Janeway can take these people who used to hate the Federation, and inspire them to follow her to the Gates of Hell out of sheer loyalty.

That's something Picard, Kirk, and Sisko never accomplished.

So I still want Janeway to be a strong leader. I just want her to be a strong leader who faced circumstances the prior captains never had to, because, well, the old formula was getting stale and felt dishonest to the circumstances the characters were in.

Makes one wonder how that Caretaker discussion Janeway recaps as " That's why Commander Chakotay and I have agreed that this should be one crew. A Starfleet crew. " actually went over, doesn't it?

Chakotay advancing these arguments you give and Janeway simply replying: "Computer, disable transporters, block access to shuttlebay with level nine forcefields, and disable emergency ejection pods. Set autodestruct sequence to one minute. It's going to be a Starfleet crew, I will be the captain, you will serve under me or we all die right here and now" ?

But seriously, how did she convince him?

Very easily, because the canonical Chakotay was a badly-written character with inconsistent motivations and beliefs so that the writers didn't have to do the hard work of realistically exploring how a ship full of institutionalist military officers and anti-institutionalist revolutionaries would get along.

Yes. Not because she's the first female Starfleet Captain in a major role, but because the premise of the show sets up this situation of a mixed crew of uncertain loyalty. Had Janeway been written as TNG's captain, and Picard as Voyager's captain, I would have expected Picard to have to handle that problem.

Exactly.

 

[at Quark's]

That's something Picard, Kirk, and Sisko never accomplished.

You could argue that Sisko was in a kind of similar situation though, with his first officer being Bajoran and also having a part-Bajoran crew. But Sisko had his Emissary thingy going on, which probably greatly mattered to the Bajorans, even those that perhaps weren't 100% believers.

 

[Sci]

You could argue that Sisko was in a kind of similar situation though, with his first officer being Bajoran and also having a part-Bajoran crew. But Sisko had his Emissary thingy going on, which probably greatly mattered to the Bajorans, even those that perhaps weren't 100% believers.

Touche. Well, Sisko came closer to that. But the Bajorans weren't outright hostile -- they weren't a political movement defined by their very rejection of the Federation. And yeah, him being declared Emissary in the Bajoran religion also made them less hostile.

 

[vulcancicada]

1. Make Janeway less self-righteous about her decisions OR give those decisions consequences. People would have mutinied, she seemed to really be willing to sacrifice everyone's lives for breaking the prime directive way too much. I would like to have seen her removed from command at least twice. Really, this is the biggest thing I would change.

2. As others have said - seven's wardrobe - and no seven/chakotay romance.

3. Better plot structure - too many episodes follow formulas - dangle a way home in front of them just to fail, aliens that the crew trusts turning out to be bad, etc.

4. Kes' personality - change it to any real personality instead of this child-like angel that is always sickeningly good

5. Janeway/Seven relationship instead of the weird Chakotay thing

 

[somebuddyX]

More arguments, like what to do about the Borg and 8472 in "Scorpion Part 1" would have been good.
I was thinking about Janeway talking to Ransom about how basically you stick by your morals no matter what and I think that would have hit better if Janeway has been in a position where she'd done that and saved the day but it got a bunch of people killed.
I wonder how the dolphin drive would have gone down better with viewers if Ransom had been killing humanoids and shoving corpses into the engine.

 

[Phaser Two]

Oof, now I'm having visions of people in indecipherable, pointless "uniforms" like whatever Alan Van Sprang was wearing on the Section 31 ship in DIS S2. No, thanks.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think the Maquis should have just been wearing T-shirts/long sleeve tee and pants. No dumb future space clothes just ordinary boring modern human clothes. Kind of what Starfleet is wearing anyway just without the coverall tops. Or throw in some normal jackets, kind of like what Kirk wears over his kit in Star Trek III.

 

[at Quark's]

Very easily, because the canonical Chakotay was a badly-written character with inconsistent motivations and beliefs so that the writers didn't have to do the hard work of realistically exploring how a ship full of institutionalist military officers and anti-institutionalist revolutionaries would get along.

Of course, but that's the real (out of universe, writers' ) explanation. If we were to find a somewhat credible in-universe explanation, what could it possibly have been? What could have convinced Chakotay to hand all of their trump cards over to Janeway?

1. Make Janeway less self-righteous about her decisions OR give those decisions consequences. People would have mutinied, she seemed to really be willing to sacrifice everyone's lives for breaking the prime directive way too much. I would like to have seen her removed from command at least twice. Really, this is the biggest thing I would change.

I think it may be that combination I have a bit of a problem with. I mean, Picard is smug and self-righteous, but at least he commands a ship of Starfleet officers that all have sworn to the same ideals. Sisko commands a mixed crew, but is not nearly as self-righteous (generally, at least). Janeway commands a ship with 1/3rd of her crew not sworn to Starfleet ideals and still acts as if she has the right to expect loyalty to the death from each and every one of them.

I'm curious how Janeway would have reacted to a Maquis member that would have said straight in her face: unfortunately, I have to depend on your vessel to get home, but I never signed up for Starfleet duty, and I'm not going to do so now. I won't betray you and I'm willing to do my part to a reasonable extent, but I refuse to become one of your little uniformed servants and I won't scratch your back just because you think you can order me to. What would happen to that person?

 

[Oddish]

Janeway commands a ship with 1/3rd of her crew not sworn to Starfleet ideals and still acts as if she has the right to expect loyalty to the death from each and every one of them.

What's truly strange is that she got it. Look at what happened on Planet 37's.

I'm curiously how Janeway would have reacted to a Maquis member that would have said straight in her face: unfortunately, I have to depend on your vessel to get home, but I never signed up for Starfleet duty, and I refuse to do so now. I won't betray you and I'm willing to do my part to a reasonable extent, but I refuse to become one of your little uniformed servants. What would have happened to that person?

1. Janeway Death Glare.
2. The result:

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Because you don't piss off the Chuck Norris of Star Trek!