How would we be reacting if this movie flopped?

[sovereign]

Hi all,

I have been a Star Trek fan for many years, and infact used to run a popular online messageboard. I have been lurking here for years, and finally decided to join because there are some things that I need to get off of my chest.

To begin, for the past four years, I have been patiently awaiting this movie with the presence of nervousness. I was not at all opposed to a "reboot" or "reimagining" of the franchise, as I felt the "current" era of Star Trek could use a shot in the arm.

This being said, after viewing the movie last night I left the theatre absolutely disgusted. To me, it isn't just the worst of the 11 Star Trek films, it is a terrible terrible movie. Star Trek has been many things over the past 40+ years, but one thing it very very rarely has been is stupid. This movie is dumbed down for the masses beyond belief. For years I watched so many of you dispute minute issues regarding canon and continuty, yet no one is picking this movie apart?!? There is more to pick apart in this movie than the other 10 combined. There is something to be said for Star Trek (even Voyager and Enterprise) that exibits at least small doses of intellect and higher thought. This movie made Starship Troopers seem like a timeless classic.

So yes, we have a big box office hit, and that's great. The thing is JJ, you didn't have to write a movie catering to testostorone filled adolescents. Star Trek 1-4 and 7-8 were movies that made a lot of money, and they were still Star Trek films.

My question is this, have we been so used to Star Trek being a commercial failure (Voyager, Enterprise, Insurrection, Nemesis) that we are unconsiously neglecting to question the actual quality of this film as a Star Trek episode because "Star Trek" is considered so very popular right now by the masses? If you look at the past, it seems that some of the many (perhaps insecure) Star Trek fans DETEST what fails/makes less money but are ready to jump on the bandwagon when Star Trek makes money. For example, as much as most of you claim to detest Star Trek Nemesis, I am willing to BET that you all wouldn't despise it so much if it made 100 million dollars. And whether you are willing to admit it or not, Nemesis moreso failed because it was competing against the Lord of the Rings/Bond/Harry Potter than any other reason.... oh and it's promotional budget was probably 1/50th of this film.

 

[tauntme]

Big difference between this film and the other films is that this MOVIE is being well received by both critics AND the general audience.

Sure, pick it apart. As a movie it wins.

 

[miraclefan]

But Starship Troopers, IS a timeless CLASSIC!

 

[Star Treks]

Let's see, 95% Tomatometer rating, in the IMDB top 250, huge box office success...

absolutely the worst Trek film.

I'm 26, a die-hard fan, and I loved it; my classic Trekkie mom in her 50s loved it; my 18-year-old brother who is a very casual fan loved it; my 22-year-old girlfriend who had never seen any Star Trek in her life loved it; the entire theater clapped.

Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, just that any attempt to argue that this film isn't a massive success in almost every sense of the word is ridiculous.

 

[sovereign]

Let's see, 95% Tomatometer rating, in the IMDB top 250, huge box office success...

absolutely the worst Trek film.

I'm 26, a die-hard fan, and I loved it; my classic Trekkie mom in her 50s loved it; my 18-year-old brother who is a very casual fan loved it; my 22-year-old girlfriend who had never seen any Star Trek in her life loved it; the entire theater clapped.

Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, just that any attempt to argue that this film isn't a massive success in almost every sense of the word is ridiculous.

And you have no right to question my choice to detest this film based upon your personal experiences, box office results or reviews. The fact is, I understand WHY this movie could be reviewed favorably. That doesn't make it a worthy Star Trek film to me.

 

[CinC_UFPForces]

Let's see, 95% Tomatometer rating, in the IMDB top 250, huge box office success...

absolutely the worst Trek film.

I'm 26, a die-hard fan, and I loved it; my classic Trekkie mom in her 50s loved it; my 18-year-old brother who is a very casual fan loved it; my 22-year-old girlfriend who had never seen any Star Trek in her life loved it; the entire theater clapped.

Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, just that any attempt to argue that this film isn't a massive success in almost every sense of the word is ridiculous.

And you have no right to question my choice to detest this film based upon your personal experiences, box office results or reviews. The fact is, I understand WHY this movie could be reviewed favorably. That doesn't make it a worthy Star Trek film to me.

He wasn't questioning your choice; he was questioning your logic, and your judgment.

I think you're quite correct in that you've made a choice to detest the film. You're not the first, so you'll probably have to add something unique to your repetoire in order to stand out.

 

[Star Treks]

Let's see, 95% Tomatometer rating, in the IMDB top 250, huge box office success...

absolutely the worst Trek film.

I'm 26, a die-hard fan, and I loved it; my classic Trekkie mom in her 50s loved it; my 18-year-old brother who is a very casual fan loved it; my 22-year-old girlfriend who had never seen any Star Trek in her life loved it; the entire theater clapped.

Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, just that any attempt to argue that this film isn't a massive success in almost every sense of the word is ridiculous.

And you have no right to question my choice to detest this film based upon your personal experiences, box office results or reviews. The fact is, I understand WHY this movie could be reviewed favorably. That doesn't make it a worthy Star Trek film to me.

I didn't question your choice, even if I don't really understand or agree with your opinion, it's your right to have it. I'm just saying it in no way reflects any kind of subjective reality about the movie. Nearly every measurable way in which one can judge a film - including not only critical, audience, and Trek fan reaction, financial success, and for me, my own experiences and those of the people who saw the movie with me - says it's a successful movie. I'm sorry you can't join in on the fun, and I mean that sincerely... I feel bad that you aren't getting the enjoyment, the thrill even, out of this that so many people are. It's just a bummer.

And I would still like this movie even if it was bombing. But it's not.

 

[photon70]

As many have said, it was fun, but has plenty of plot holes, and WE EXPECT A LOT MORE from the sequel. Ahem.

 

[JustKate]

Sovereign, you must be visiting a different Trek BBS. There are scads of people picking the movie apart. The thing is, there are also a lot of people who like it, as well as people who kind of like it, as well as people who like it a lot, as well as people who love it, as well as people who haven't quite made up their minds, as well as people in various stages of dislike/hate. Here are a few threads, in case you've missed them:
What do you diehard TOS fans think of the new movie? -
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=92276
What's keeping me out of the theatre -
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=88787
Why all the secrecy during production? -
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=93581
I'll just go ahead and say it: I don't like Star Trek -
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=92334

Etc., etc., etc. There's lots. You can find lots of negative comments if that's what you're looking for.

Me, I liked it. I didn't love it, but I liked it. And I've been watching Trek a loooooooong time. And actually, Trek has often done some fairly stupid things. It just does them with a certain amount of...panache!

 

[sovereign]

Let's see, 95% Tomatometer rating, in the IMDB top 250, huge box office success...

absolutely the worst Trek film.

I'm 26, a die-hard fan, and I loved it; my classic Trekkie mom in her 50s loved it; my 18-year-old brother who is a very casual fan loved it; my 22-year-old girlfriend who had never seen any Star Trek in her life loved it; the entire theater clapped.

Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, just that any attempt to argue that this film isn't a massive success in almost every sense of the word is ridiculous.

And you have no right to question my choice to detest this film based upon your personal experiences, box office results or reviews. The fact is, I understand WHY this movie could be reviewed favorably. That doesn't make it a worthy Star Trek film to me.

I didn't question your choice, even if I don't really understand or agree with your opinion, it's your right to have it. I'm just saying it in no way reflects any kind of subjective reality about the movie. I'm sorry you can't join in on the fun.

Oh my friend, I truly wish I could have joined in the fun. I'm not usually this critical. I most often can find something to like even in the most questionable offerings of Star Trek. This being said, I almost walked out of the theatre and most likely will never view this movie again. In my opinion, Independence Day was written with more intelligence.

 

[Star Treks]

I will just add, even if this makes me look bad, that I really enjoyed Nemesis, and was disappointed it was such a bomb, because I think it's a decent flick. I don't care whether a movie makes money or not - or whether other people like it or not - when I judge it (just like you). I like this one. But I am also very happy with its success because it bodes well for more Trek, which I want.

 

[sovereign]

I will just add, even if this makes me look bad, that I really enjoyed Nemesis, and was disappointed it was such a bomb, because I think it's a decent flick. I don't care whether a movie makes money or not - or whether other people like it or not - when I judge it (just like you). I like this one. But I am also very happy with its success because it bodes well for more Trek, which I want.

Don't worry how you look to a bunch of Star Trek fans. I personally enjoyed Nemesis very much.

 

[Borgminister]

Ignoring the bias of the OP and answering the actual question--with profound sadness.

I was even sad when Nemesis tanked, although it was hardly the best of the Trek movies.

 

[BenRoethig]

If it would have flopped, Abrams would have been tarred and feathered.

 

[miraclefan]

I will just add, even if this makes me look bad, that I really enjoyed Nemesis, and was disappointed it was such a bomb, because I think it's a decent flick. I don't care whether a movie makes money or not - or whether other people like it or not - when I judge it (just like you). I like this one. But I am also very happy with its success because it bodes well for more Trek, which I want.

Don't worry how you look to a bunch of Star Trek fans. I personally enjoyed Nemesis very much.

Ignoring the bias of the OP and answering the actual question--with profound sadness.

I was even sad when Nemesis tanked, although it was hardly the best of the Trek movies.

I too enjoyed NEMESIS. And am quite sad that will be the last time we see the TNG crew again.

 

[JustKate]

To answer the question in your subject line - sorry, I got diverted there - the way I would be reacting if the movie had flopped (or if I had just really disliked it) is with resignation. To be honest, while I have liked some of the Trek films, I haven't adored any of them, so my expectations are, shall we say, pretty low.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Half the threads in this forum are currently being utilised to "pick the film apart".
Yes there were a few canon violations (*insert your own canon violation pic here*) but nothing that can't be rectified by bending things here and there . All in all I enjoyed this film, am I miffed Vulcan is gone? absolutely not, if it hadn't the "reboot" wouldn't really be a reboot since the Trekverse would hardly be any different. It needed a major shakup and destroying Vulcan was the shakeup.

 

[Borgminister]

I will just add, even if this makes me look bad, that I really enjoyed Nemesis, and was disappointed it was such a bomb, because I think it's a decent flick. I don't care whether a movie makes money or not - or whether other people like it or not - when I judge it (just like you). I like this one. But I am also very happy with its success because it bodes well for more Trek, which I want.

Don't worry how you look to a bunch of Star Trek fans. I personally enjoyed Nemesis very much.

Ignoring the bias of the OP and answering the actual question--with profound sadness.

I was even sad when Nemesis tanked, although it was hardly the best of the Trek movies.

I too enjoyed NEMESIS. And am quite sad that will be the last time we see the TNG crew again.

Maybe a direct to DVD effort? I know, when pigs fly... still, there are always possibilities...

 

[Trilliam]

I will just add, even if this makes me look bad, that I really enjoyed Nemesis, and was disappointed it was such a bomb, because I think it's a decent flick. I don't care whether a movie makes money or not - or whether other people like it or not - when I judge it (just like you). I like this one. But I am also very happy with its success because it bodes well for more Trek, which I want.

TEHO. Nemesis is the only Trek film that I didn't, or more accurately, COULDN'T sit through more than once. If I had my way, DH's copy of the dvd would be used as a drinks coaster, which is more than it deserves.

I thoroughly enjoyed the current movie (both times). I am not a newcomer to Trek and have been a fan since I first watched TOS in 1969.

"Canon" violations/ rebooting/alternate realities - Like I've asked before, how many times have the Arthurian legends been reworked/reframed?

 

[miraclefan]

Don't worry how you look to a bunch of Star Trek fans. I personally enjoyed Nemesis very much.

Ignoring the bias of the OP and answering the actual question--with profound sadness.

I was even sad when Nemesis tanked, although it was hardly the best of the Trek movies.

I too enjoyed NEMESIS. And am quite sad that will be the last time we see the TNG crew again.

Maybe a direct to DVD effort? I know, when pigs fly... still, there are always possibilities...

If we do ever get any Direct to DVD releases, I hope it's new ENTERPRISE episodes ''or'' movie.