How would we be reacting if this movie flopped?

[Trilliam]

At the end of the day, if I feel like serious "SciFi'", I'll go pull out my Isaac Asimov books. I f I want hard science, I'll go pull out Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" (yes, I have read it cover to cover), or any of my biomedical/genetics texts. If I want serious thought provocation, I'll hit my Psychology, bioethics and Counselling texts. Movies (Trek or otherwise) are for entertainment and disctraction - nothing more & nothing less.

This will probably get me thrown off these boards and I'll have to turn in my TOS phaser and communitcator.

 

[flemm]

At the end of the day, if I feel like serious "SciFi'", I'll go pull out my Isaac Asimov books. I f I want hard science, I'll go pull out Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" (yes, I have read it cover to cover), or any of my biomedical/genetics texts. If I want serious thought provocation, I'll hit my Psychology, bioethics and Counselling texts. Movies (Trek or otherwise) are for entertainment and disctraction - nothing more & nothing less.

This will probably get me thrown off these boards and I'll have to turn in my TOS phaser and communitcator.

I think the idea that interesting ideas and popular entertainment cannot co-exist is often overstated, as it has been recently on this board. Mostly I think this is motivated by fear and insecurity inspired by the blatant mismanagement of the franchise toward the end of the TNG era.

Ironically, Star Trek at its best has often been a good example of how entertainment and good ideas can co-exist. It is far from an isolated example, however. Good entertainment that is not also stupid is relatively rare because it is certainly harder to do, but when done right the result is a product that is even more popular and marketable over the longhaul than the average entertainment product.

Transformers and TDK were both popular. Without Heath Ledger's death they might have been more or less equally popular. But Transformers will be a movie nobody much cares about in ten years, while TDK will remain a landmark film that is still refered to and respected, as well as being more entertaining since it will age more slowly.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

Hi all,

I have been a Star Trek fan for many years, and infact used to run a popular online messageboard. I have been lurking here for years, and finally decided to join because there are some things that I need to get off of my chest.

To begin, for the past four years, I have been patiently awaiting this movie with the presence of nervousness. I was not at all opposed to a "reboot" or "reimagining" of the franchise, as I felt the "current" era of Star Trek could use a shot in the arm.

This being said, after viewing the movie last night I left the theatre absolutely disgusted. To me, it isn't just the worst of the 11 Star Trek films, it is a terrible terrible movie. Star Trek has been many things over the past 40+ years, but one thing it very very rarely has been is stupid. This movie is dumbed down for the masses beyond belief. For years I watched so many of you dispute minute issues regarding canon and continuty, yet no one is picking this movie apart?!? There is more to pick apart in this movie than the other 10 combined. There is something to be said for Star Trek (even Voyager and Enterprise) that exibits at least small doses of intellect and higher thought. This movie made Starship Troopers seem like a timeless classic.

So yes, we have a big box office hit, and that's great. The thing is JJ, you didn't have to write a movie catering to testostorone filled adolescents. Star Trek 1-4 and 7-8 were movies that made a lot of money, and they were still Star Trek films.

My question is this, have we been so used to Star Trek being a commercial failure (Voyager, Enterprise, Insurrection, Nemesis) that we are unconsiously neglecting to question the actual quality of this film as a Star Trek episode because "Star Trek" is considered so very popular right now by the masses? If you look at the past, it seems that some of the many (perhaps insecure) Star Trek fans DETEST what fails/makes less money but are ready to jump on the bandwagon when Star Trek makes money. For example, as much as most of you claim to detest Star Trek Nemesis, I am willing to BET that you all wouldn't despise it so much if it made 100 million dollars. And whether you are willing to admit it or not, Nemesis moreso failed because it was competing against the Lord of the Rings/Bond/Harry Potter than any other reason.... oh and it's promotional budget was probably 1/50th of this film.

I'd be sad, especially because that would have been the last Trek we'd see for a long time.

 

[superstring01]

How would we be reacting if this movie flopped?

Well, it's happened so many times before that I guess we'd be pretty used to it!

~String

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's a sad commentary on education today, I guess, when something so basic and yet so necesaary for the enjoyment of fiction (willing suspension of disbelief), has to be spelled out like you just did.

Don't blame the education of today. I'm a teacher-librarian and I help my kids do "willing suspension of disbelief" every day. Eventually, though, many kids grow up to be jaded adults and some people stop themselves from enjoying life. I really don't see it's a fault of education.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Well, it's happened so many times before that I guess we'd be pretty used to it!

"Nemesis" has been Paramount's only commercial flop for ST.

TMP eventually made back its money, and "Phase II"'s as well! ST V eventually scraped through.

 

[Borgminister]

Well, it's happened so many times before that I guess we'd be pretty used to it!

"Nemesis" has been Paramount's only commercial flop for ST.

TMP eventually made back its money, and "Phase II"'s as well! ST V eventually scraped through.

This bears remembering; why else would Paramount have decided to throw 150 million at a new movie?

 

[fresh]

I would be unhappy if it flopped, but glad it got a last shot of glory, even if it failed.

I thought it was great, flaws especially, it reminded me of the ridiculousness of TOS ... but as a whole it worked.

Some of those who really hate the movie have an exaggerated view of Star Trek, it was never an intellectual exercise, it never had a monopoly on good storytelling.
To them Star Trek is already a flop despite the raves and success, and I say good riddance.

 

[The Wormhole]

If it were a flop, I would be one of this forum's most popular posters.

Popularity, respect, you can't buy these. Trust me, I've tried.

 

[Trilliam]

It's a sad commentary on education today, I guess, when something so basic and yet so necesaary for the enjoyment of fiction (willing suspension of disbelief), has to be spelled out like you just did.

Don't blame the education of today. I'm a teacher-librarian and I help my kids do "willing suspension of disbelief" every day. Eventually, though, many kids grow up to be jaded adults and some people stop themselves from enjoying life. I really don't see it's a fault of education.

I do blame the way they teach English/literature in high school here at least. We have our 4th doing Yr11 this year.

When one of our's was doing a PD James novel (Extension 1 English) - they even managed to suck the pleasure out of it.

Even sittig aound talking to our young people (ages 16 -24) and their friends, they are far more cynical that we were at the same age.

 

[Balthier the Great]

I dunno, I really only had two complaints on Trek11.

First off, the George Kirk on the Doomed Ship. I'm sorry, but the whole thing seemed too contrived. Why is the pregnant woman on a ship in unknown space? It's the Navy guys, the wives stay on the base. (On a related note, I don't think that it makes any sense to have the entire officer staff on the Ent all get there from the Academy onwards. It's called reassignment -- the navy doesn't leave people on the same ship forever.) it seemed like they were trying to make Kirk a Messiah -- the promised hero. I'm sorry, but that doesn't work in the trek verse. Hopefully he doesn't get midichorians. I don't like that in a universe, unless it's a high fantasy universe.

As for the rest, I loved the characterizations. They all came off about right for me. I liked the glimpses of them as children, and it was amazing to see how the writers managed to craft the events to have them parallel later events in the movie (like Spock's loss of control after Kirk taunts him). That's good foreshadowing.

I don't think my opinion would change much over the BO. I'm not even following it much since they hit 100 mil.

 

[Overgeeked]

I dunno, I really only had two complaints on Trek11.

First off, the George Kirk on the Doomed Ship. I'm sorry, but the whole thing seemed too contrived. Why is the pregnant woman on a ship in unknown space? It's the Navy guys, the wives stay on the base...

This is explained by the writers and director. She's a Starfleet officer. That's why she's on the ship, and when Kirk is driving the car, the grump old man says, "Just because your mother's off-planet...," because she's on a starship somewhere being a Starfleet officer. This isn't in Countdown, but from one of the interviews that are floating around.