How would we be reacting if this movie flopped?

[Overgeeked]

1) No, I don't like explosions thankyou - I'm not a 16yo boy
2) I liked that they took the flirting in Charlie X and ran with it
3) I liked the casting -
4) I liked that George made the ultimate sacrifice ( I was starting to cry at that point)
5) I like that young Jim's behaviour (rebellious child) rings true for angry with absent figures
6) I think that the bloke playing "Bones" is channelling DeForrest Kelley
7) Tht they ran with Spock being bullied as a child of 2 cultures
8) That this Spock was a bit like the Spock from "The Cage"
Need I go on?

Plus as i said before : the viewing context - it was a good family night out.

Oh yeah - don't talk down to me, I graduated from University too, thankyou.

1) I'm well over 16, but I loved the 'splosions.
2) Sure, np.
3) Same here.
4) That was the best part of the film. Hands down. Perfect opening, perfect Trek ethics. I was disappointed that the rest of the film failed to live up to that opening.
5) Some children with absent parents, not all. I thought it to be over-the-top, but hey.
6) Boy howdy.
7) I'm mixed about that, loved seeing the learning nooks, but question the logic of the older boys bullying him.
8) Have to disagree there. I'm a Vulcan-phile. I love me some stoic, utilitarian, logical Vulcans. I can't stand this all too human version. It's that conflict between control and emotion that make him so interesting. This version was wearing his heart on his sleeve, by comparison. That more emotional Spock is just another human with pointy ears, that's not interesting at all. I loved the bridge fight scene though of him losing it. Go figure.

The movie fell apart, for me, due to the egregious plot holes and bad writing.

I'm glad you and yours had a good night out. My daughter's five so I'm waiting a few years before she can see this one, but she's already asking for episodes (and superheroes... love that).

A query: Grad dip?

 

[Trilliam]

1) No, I don't like explosions thankyou - I'm not a 16yo boy
2) I liked that they took the flirting in Charlie X and ran with it
3) I liked the casting -
4) I liked that George made the ultimate sacrifice ( I was starting to cry at that point)
5) I like that young Jim's behaviour (rebellious child) rings true for angry with absent figures
6) I think that the bloke playing "Bones" is channelling DeForrest Kelley
7) Tht they ran with Spock being bullied as a child of 2 cultures
8) That this Spock was a bit like the Spock from "The Cage"
Need I go on?

Please do I find this lot more interesting than all the mindless cheers that I see in the past 2 weeks.

You basically listed all the reasons why I liked the movie at first.
But all this happened before the cadets got on the enterprise.
After that the movie fell apart completely.
And I'm basing my dislike for the film on the good latter part of it. And I do believe the latter part is the majority of the film, and the beginning of the movie plot.

Where did it fall apart for you?

Cadets running the ship? That was done in in DS9 too
Enterprise being the only ship available? Lost count of how many times that's been done.
I don't know about anyone else, but I "got" Nero, I liked his character, I love the understated way he introduced himself. Jusrt wish he had more time.
The humour - loved it

Grad Dip - Graduate Diploma, a university qualification after obtaining a Bachelor's degree in a particular area and before starting a Masters in a different field than the Bachelors.

 

[CaptainJon]

And you have no right to question my choice to detest this film based upon your personal experiences, box office results or reviews. The fact is, I understand WHY this movie could be reviewed favorably. That doesn't make it a worthy Star Trek film to me.

I'm just curious to know how you understand it could be reviewed favorably when in your OP you said it was a terrible, terrible movie and couldn't understand why people weren't picking it apart. If you see plenty of reason for everybody to pick it apart, wouldn't it make more sense for you to not understand how could be reviewed favorably?

I personally loved the movie, and I've said it in a couple other posts over the last few days; I wish that some fans would just get over themselves and what their opinion of Star Trek is, not nitpick about the cosmetic details, and just enjoy the movie! If you can't enjoy the movie because you find the story, the acting, the directing, the visual effects, whatever is terrible, then that's fine with me! I disagree with you!

I'd just like to know how you understand it can be reviewed favorably, and yet want to know why more people aren't picking apart its flaws.

 

[Hermiod]

My question is this, have we been so used to Star Trek being a commercial failure (Voyager, Enterprise, Insurrection, Nemesis) that we are unconsiously neglecting to question the actual quality of this film as a Star Trek episode because "Star Trek" is considered so very popular right now by the masses? If you look at the past, it seems that some of the many (perhaps insecure) Star Trek fans DETEST what fails/makes less money but are ready to jump on the bandwagon when Star Trek makes money. For example, as much as most of you claim to detest Star Trek Nemesis, I am willing to BET that you all wouldn't despise it so much if it made 100 million dollars. And whether you are willing to admit it or not, Nemesis moreso failed because it was competing against the Lord of the Rings/Bond/Harry Potter than any other reason.... oh and it's promotional budget was probably 1/50th of this film.

The logic of this is so flawed I don't know where to start.

Nemesis was a bad movie. It doesn't matter how much money it made, it was a bad movie. It was full of plot holes, blatant ignorance of continuity and suffered from the worst film editing I've ever seen. The director Stuart Baird had absolutely no idea what he was doing from day one. It offends me that my favourite character was killed off in that stupid movie. He deserves better than that.

Star Trek, on the other hand, is a wonderfully entertaining, exciting, well directed, well written, well edited, well acted movie.

Star Trek has made a hell of a lot more than $100m. It looks very much like it's going to beat the far more "audience friendly" X-Men Origins: Wolverine at the box office, for starters.

The fact that it has proven so popular with "the masses" and with Star Trek fans is a good thing. The ratings thread on this very board shows just how massively those of us who loved it outnumber those who didn't. We get that a few people didn't like it, but the number of people, especially new members, starting new thread after new thread after new thread with endless, ridiculous nitpicking "reviews" when there is a stickied grading thread at the top of the page is getting ridiculous.

None of us are "insecure". We don't need to be, we just look at the rapidly increasing box office, the overwhelmingly positive reviews and we're perfectly secure in the knowledge that we are right.

 

[Overgeeked]

The logic of this is so flawed I don't know where to start.

Nemesis was a bad movie. It doesn't matter how much money it made, it was a bad movie. It was full of plot holes, blatant ignorance of continuity and suffered from the worst film editing I've ever seen. The director Stuart Baird had absolutely no idea what he was doing from day one. It offends me that my favourite character was killed off in that stupid movie. He deserves better than that.

I had high hopes for you logic from your first line, but alas. There are so many over-the-top subjective words and phrases in there that it's pointless to talk about. I agree though, Data was my favorite and it was dumb to do that.

Star Trek, on the other hand, is a wonderfully entertaining, exciting, well directed, well written, well edited, well acted movie.

Again, pure subjective opinion. Most agree about it being entertaining, exciting, and well acted. However, there are several threads / posts disputing your opinion about the directing, writing, and editing. Just because you think it's true doesn't make it so. It's an opinion, not a fact.

Star Trek has made a hell of a lot more than $100m. It looks very much like it's going to beat the far more "audience friendly" X-Men Origins: Wolverine at the box office, for starters.

Yes, financially successful, with sequels to follow. Doesn't make it objectively good. Still a matter of subjective opinion.

The fact that it has proven so popular with "the masses" and with Star Trek fans is a good thing. The ratings thread on this very board shows just how massively those of us who loved it outnumber those who didn't.

Hold it right there space cowboy. 65% is not "massively outnumber". That's just being dishonest. Majority, yes. But not massive.

We get that a few people didn't like it, but the number of people, especially new members, starting new thread after new thread after new thread with endless, ridiculous nitpicking "reviews" when there is a stickied grading thread at the top of the page is getting ridiculous.

That there are so many people posting negative threads and posts about the film should tell you something, and more than "they're just being ridiculous." And the length of time someone's been a member here should have no bearing on your estimation of their opinion.

None of us are "insecure". We don't need to be, we just look at the rapidly increasing box office, the overwhelmingly positive reviews and we're perfectly secure in the knowledge that we are right.

The box office numbers are great. Really shitty films have earned a lot of money. High box office =/= good film. Positive, or negative, reviews don't change a movie from good to bad or vice versa. None of these change the quality of the movie. Or your opinion about it. Notice that you're the one ranting about how right you are, and how wrong we are. While we're (for the most part) just calling into question some of the finer points we didn't care for. It's really interesting. Almost bordering on religious fervor. Kinda like the Muslims who kill people for saying Islam is a violent religion. Or the Catholics who burned people at the stake for heresy. It would be funny, if it weren't so sad.

"It's only the closed mind that knows it's right."

Further, the unending need to enter negative threads and post how we're in the minority and "all wrong" does have a curious correlation to what some might consider insecurity. As does your need to point out just how secure you are. Hmmm...

 

[Tentacle]

Please do I find this lot more interesting than all the mindless cheers that I see in the past 2 weeks.

You basically listed all the reasons why I liked the movie at first.
But all this happened before the cadets got on the enterprise.
After that the movie fell apart completely.
And I'm basing my dislike for the film on the good latter part of it. And I do believe the latter part is the majority of the film, and the beginning of the movie plot.

Where did it fall apart for you?

Cadets running the ship? That was done in in DS9 too
Enterprise being the only ship available? Lost count of how many times that's been done.
I don't know about anyone else, but I "got" Nero, I liked his character, I love the understated way he introduced himself. Jusrt wish he had more time.
The humour - loved it

where did it fall apart for you?
aw, need I begin

the overly comical handling of kirk's allergy (otherwise it would of been a nicely nugget from TWOH)

Cadets running the ship dont bother me, its been done in TWOH, but never a whole fleet of cadets had been send into action. It seems that they mobilized the entire academy. Were all the regular officers dead? The whole fleet was send away thing is little too convenient.

Warping into vulcan without any long range scans of the system and knowing its under attack.

The over all brashness of kirk bothered me, he seemed more like a over spoiled brat that I want to bent over and spank, than a captain you would respect.

Uhura being the only person that can speak romulan. (it seems like a gimick to give uhura some ability). The only other part uhura plays is to kiss spock.

Nero, oh nero, his only motoivation seems to be "eh i'm crazy i want revenage"

Spock's completely disregard for kirk's safty by ejecting him out of an escape pod. And Mccoy actually going along with it, after benting all the rules by getting kirk on board.

The convenient way kirk found old spock on that icy planet. (when kirk was being attacked by that spider like creature, It is so reminicent of the planet Hoth in star wars, I halfy expected kirk to pull out a lightsaber.)

That scene of spock being provoked into showing emotion was weakly done. I'm suprised how little it took spock to lose it.
The intense emotion shown by spock had ruined what it means to be a vulcan for me.

Only thing chekov was good at was a bad accent. (oh and they did throw him a bone by giving him some tranport duties)

Scotty have a boarderline eating disorder, rather than being a member of AA. (too much cliché)

Sulu bringing a knife to a gun fight.

The whole thing about the red matter is just too over the top. (it required me to lobotomize myself to begin the "suspension of disbelief)

Were they trying to go with the anti hero for kirk to fire on a helpless ship? If so the build up of kirk from the rest of the movie didnt add up.

Kirk being promoted to captain....

Need I go on?

I'm sure there are a few things i missed, but they can all be found in the rest of the forum.

 

[Devon]

This being said, after viewing the movie last night I left the theatre absolutely disgusted. To me, it isn't just the worst of the 11 Star Trek films, it is a terrible terrible movie. Star Trek has been many things over the past 40+ years, but one thing it very very rarely has been is stupid. This movie is dumbed down for the masses beyond belief. For years I watched so many of you dispute minute issues regarding canon and continuty, yet no one is picking this movie apart?!? There is more to pick apart in this movie than the other 10 combined. There is something to be said for Star Trek (even Voyager and Enterprise) that exibits at least small doses of intellect and higher thought. This movie made Starship Troopers seem like a timeless classic.

Let us know what you think after you have actually watched film.

The thing is JJ, you didn't have to write a movie catering to testostorone filled adolescents.

I hope you realize that you insulting most Trek fans and the general public with your rather unfounded remarks.

Star Trek 1-4 and 7-8 were movies that made a lot of money

They maybe made some nice money, but nothing mind blowing.

 

[donners22]

I will just add, even if this makes me look bad, that I really enjoyed Nemesis, and was disappointed it was such a bomb, because I think it's a decent flick. I don't care whether a movie makes money or not - or whether other people like it or not - when I judge it (just like you). I like this one. But I am also very happy with its success because it bodes well for more Trek, which I want.

It's so rare to see a post I completely agree with.

 

[Hermiod]

I had high hopes for you logic from your first line, but alas. There are so many over-the-top subjective words and phrases in there that it's pointless to talk about. I agree though, Data was my favorite and it was dumb to do that.

If you want to discuss why I think Nemesis is so bad, go over to Trek Movies and start a thread.

Again, pure subjective opinion. Most agree about it being entertaining, exciting, and well acted. However, there are several threads / posts disputing your opinion about the directing, writing, and editing. Just because you think it's true doesn't make it so. It's an opinion, not a fact.

Yes, it's my opinion. Which I gave.

Yes, financially successful, with sequels to follow. Doesn't make it objectively good. Still a matter of subjective opinion.

The quality of any movie is subjective opinion, an 83% Metacritic score from 37 professional reviews is not, it's a consensus.

Hold it right there space cowboy. 65% is not "massively outnumber". That's just being dishonest. Majority, yes. But not massive.

So far, the film has received 717 Excellent or Above Average scores and 77 Below Average or Poor scores with 63 Average scores. The positive scores outweigh the negative ones by almost 10 to 1.

To be honest, some of the "reviews" have sounded like they were written by a McCain supporter sitting there on Inauguration Day with their fingers crossed insisting that he could still win.

That there are so many people posting negative threads and posts about the film should tell you something, and more than "they're just being ridiculous." And the length of time someone's been a member here should have no bearing on your estimation of their opinion.

It has a bearing on my estimation of how well they know the rules. Starting multiple threads on one subject, as you yourself were warned for, is considered spamming on this board. There is a stickied grading thread at the top of this forum.

The box office numbers are great. Really shitty films have earned a lot of money. High box office =/= good film. Positive, or negative, reviews don't change a movie from good to bad or vice versa. None of these change the quality of the movie. Or your opinion about it. Notice that you're the one ranting about how right you are, and how wrong we are. While we're (for the most part) just calling into question some of the finer points we didn't care for. It's really interesting. Almost bordering on religious fervor. Kinda like the Muslims who kill people for saying Islam is a violent religion. Or the Catholics who burned people at the stake for heresy. It would be funny, if it weren't so sad.

You know you want to Godwin this thread. Go on, give in.

"It's only the closed mind that knows it's right."

Further, the unending need to enter negative threads and post how we're in the minority and "all wrong" does have a curious correlation to what some might consider insecurity. As does your need to point out just how secure you are. Hmmm...

I'm happy to read people's opinions, and I can certainly appreciate that some people didn't like the movie but some of the threads defy the reality of the situation. The movie has been a success critically and financially. I'm sure many of you would have liked it if it was a flop in some sort of bizarre act of self-hatred, but the truth is the logic of the original post in this thread was bizarre.

A film's box office performance, as you say yourself, has nothing to do with its quality. Some great films have flopped badly at the box office. Some poor films have been massive financial successes. In this case, the popular opinion is that the movie is both good and a financial success.

I just get the feeling that there are some people who would not have liked this movie no matter how good it was, no matter who was in it or what it was about.

 

[donners22]

Uhura being the only person that can speak romulan. (it seems like a gimick to give uhura some ability). The only other part uhura plays is to kiss spock.

One would expect the communications officer to have a particular ability in alien languages.

That scene of spock being provoked into showing emotion was weakly done. I'm suprised how little it took spock to lose it.
The intense emotion shown by spock had ruined what it means to be a vulcan for me.

I think having his planet blow up and his mother die in front of him may have pushed him a little close to the edge. If you want a problem with that scene, try Scotty's line at the end of it.

Only thing chekov was good at was a bad accent. (oh and they did throw him a bone by giving him some tranport duties)

Pulling off a transport that nobody else could manage.


It has stacks of logic holes, no doubt, but it's big, fun and familiar in many ways. It's also successful. It has achieved all that it was intended to do.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Uhura being the only person that can speak romulan. (it seems like a gimick to give uhura some ability). The only other part uhura plays is to kiss spock.

One would expect the communications officer to have a particular ability in alien languages.

Yes this was a big improvement as far as the communications officer went in Enterprise and I'm glad they continued with it. Otherwise all we have is "Opening hailing frequencies Captain".

That scene of spock being provoked into showing emotion was weakly done. I'm suprised how little it took spock to lose it.
The intense emotion shown by spock had ruined what it means to be a vulcan for me.

I think having his planet blow up and his mother die in front of him may have pushed him a little close to the edge. If you want a problem with that scene, try Scotty's line at the end of it.

I COMPLETELY AGREE.

Fun as that line is it is Scotty who is emotionally stunted to be saying it after that particular scene.

 

[Aragorn]

If this movie had flopped, I'm guessing those crying "box office success has nothing to do with quality" would instead be saying "the box office bombing is proof of how bad the movie is."

 

[pookha]

1) No, I don't like explosions thankyou - I'm not a 16yo boy
2) I liked that they took the flirting in Charlie X and ran with it
3) I liked the casting -
4) I liked that George made the ultimate sacrifice ( I was starting to cry at that point)
5) I like that young Jim's behaviour (rebellious child) rings true for angry with absent figures
6) I think that the bloke playing "Bones" is channelling DeForrest Kelley
7) Tht they ran with Spock being bullied as a child of 2 cultures
8) That this Spock was a bit like the Spock from "The Cage"
Need I go on?

Plus as i said before : the viewing context - it was a good family night out.

Oh yeah - don't talk down to me, I graduated from University too, thankyou.

1) I'm well over 16, but I loved the 'splosions.
2) Sure, np.
3) Same here.
4) That was the best part of the film. Hands down. Perfect opening, perfect Trek ethics. I was disappointed that the rest of the film failed to live up to that opening.
5) Some children with absent parents, not all. I thought it to be over-the-top, but hey.
6) Boy howdy.
7) I'm mixed about that, loved seeing the learning nooks, but question the logic of the older boys bullying him.
8) Have to disagree there. I'm a Vulcan-phile. I love me some stoic, utilitarian, logical Vulcans. I can't stand this all too human version. It's that conflict between control and emotion that make him so interesting. This version was wearing his heart on his sleeve, by comparison. That more emotional Spock is just another human with pointy ears, that's not interesting at all. I loved the bridge fight scene though of him losing it. Go figure.

The movie fell apart, for me, due to the egregious plot holes and bad writing.

I'm glad you and yours had a good night out. My daughter's five so I'm waiting a few years before she can see this one, but she's already asking for episodes (and superheroes... love that).

A query: Grad dip?

the vulcan boys taunting spock is directly from yesteryear.

that when spock was younger he was more emotional and not as in control
is from star trek series.
go back and watch the cage sometimes and watch him grin and shouting "the women".

you even see him smirk a little in the very early episodes.
and in the film he dosnt get really emotional until after he watches his mother killed in front of him and witnesses the destruciton of his planet.

 

[Tentacle]

Uhura being the only person that can speak romulan. (it seems like a gimick to give uhura some ability). The only other part uhura plays is to kiss spock.

One would expect the communications officer to have a particular ability in alien languages.

Yes this was a big improvement as far as the communications officer went in Enterprise and I'm glad they continued with it. Otherwise all we have is "Opening hailing frequencies Captain".

Big improvement? sure.
let me refer you to the feminist review thread

That scene of spock being provoked into showing emotion was weakly done. I'm suprised how little it took spock to lose it.
The intense emotion shown by spock had ruined what it means to be a vulcan for me.

I think having his planet blow up and his mother die in front of him may have pushed him a little close to the edge. If you want a problem with that scene, try Scotty's line at the end of it.

I COMPLETELY AGREE.

Fun as that line is it is Scotty who is emotionally stunted to be saying it after that particular scene.

Maybe it is bad acting or poor writing that did not make that scene more real. All that scene felt was spock lost it because old spock told kirk he would. It was expected thus making it weak.

 

[superdeluxe]

If it would have flopped, I think we could have killed star trek as a viable franchise.

 

[pookha]

One would expect the communications officer to have a particular ability in alien languages.

Yes this was a big improvement as far as the communications officer went in Enterprise and I'm glad they continued with it. Otherwise all we have is "Opening hailing frequencies Captain".

Big improvement? sure.
let me refer you to the feminist review thread

I think having his planet blow up and his mother die in front of him may have pushed him a little close to the edge. If you want a problem with that scene, try Scotty's line at the end of it.

I COMPLETELY AGREE.

Fun as that line is it is Scotty who is emotionally stunted to be saying it after that particular scene.

Maybe it is bad acting or poor writing that did not make that scene more real. All that scene felt was spock lost it because old spock told kirk he would. It was expected thus making it weak.

maybe scotty was affected by all that he had just been through..

marooned out on this base running out of food.
has kirk and spock prime show up.
gets told by prime spock he did all this stuff.
is transported and almost drowns.

in the end he may have said it as an attempt to relief the tension present.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Let's see, 95% Tomatometer rating, in the IMDB top 250, huge box office success...

absolutely the worst Trek film.

I'm 26, a die-hard fan, and I loved it;

Doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, just that any attempt to argue that this film isn't a massive success in almost every sense of the word is ridiculous.

I'm 26 too, and I agree whole-heartedly.

In any case it didn't flop. It's a huge success. No need to ponder on the once dreaded scenario of box-office failure. Citizens, rejoice! Yay.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As it is, I don't have that problem. The movie freakin' rocked, and it's a big damn hit! Bring on the sequels!

I'm with you. The fact that most of my ST friends also had a great time watching it, the fact that friends who didn't know ST loved it, too, and the fact that several people I know who got very disillusioned by productions such as ST IV and the last few seasons of TNG (particularly the year we met everyone's relatives!), makes me even more thrilled!

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I'm 26 too, and I agree whole-heartedly.

In any case it didn't flop. It's a huge success. No need to ponder on the once dreaded scenario of box-office failure. Citizens, rejoice! Yay.

Still hasn't hit the $300 million mark, which is the generally accepted minimum target.

 

[Deckerd]

Ignoring the bias of the OP and answering the actual question--with profound sadness.

I was even sad when Nemesis tanked, although it was hardly the best of the Trek movies.

Well I think everyone's more or less singing from the same songsheet there.