How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9?

[Cepstrum]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

This is why I don't feel that B5 and DS9 should be compared. They were both great, but B5's greatness was largely pre-planned (and it could be argued that many of the non-planned episodes aren't among its best), while DS9, to my mind, deserves a lot of credit for how the writers kept things going without having an advance plan.

I've never seen B5, but as I understand it, wasn't it the product of one guy? That would make it far easier to do arcs.

 

[DonIago]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

Largely but not entirely, particularly earlier in the show's run other writers had more input.

 

[FormerLurker]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

For me, the Dominion War is what makes DS9 the exceptional Trek. The fact that the show was not an episodic 'bad guy of the week' sort of show is what separates it from the rest of Trek and makes it my favorite.

If you take out the Dominion War (which is what you are really talking about here) it wouldn't be the same show, and the motivation behind some of it's best episodes would be missing. It would be kind of hard to do In the Pale Moonlight, for example, without the Dominion War. Same with The Siege of AR-558 and It's Only a Paper Moon, two episodes that are also not a part of either of the 'two arcs' to which the OP refers.

In truth, however, I believe that everything from mid-season 3 onward is part of the overall Dominion War arc. The multi-parters are sub-arcs within the larger war arc.

The final episode made it plain that the entire series was one big arc from beginning to end, with a bunch of little mini-arcs in the middle.

 

[Cepstrum]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

^^^
With two giant arcs towards the end!

I wonder: did they conceive DS9 with the notion of mini arcs and a grand arc, or did it "just happen"? I do know the two big arcs were ad hoc and last-minute without much forethought, but I do not know if they knew in advance that it was going to be heavily serialized show.

 

[JoeD80]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

I wonder: did they conceive DS9 with the notion of mini arcs and a grand arc, or did it "just happen"?

Just happened. When DS9 was first conceived there was no plan for a long arc. They didn't come up with the Dominion until the second season and even then it wasn't fully defined at the outset.

I do know the two big arcs were ad hoc and last-minute without much forethought

The writing staff did get together to break down the stories of each multi-episode arc before writing the scripts, with each writer/writing team being assigned a portion of each arc. They weren't just shooting in the dark trying to guess what the next writer would come up with.

 

[flemm]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

The Occupation Arc and the Final Chapter are great, but I voted "no." Case in point: Season 5, which is often cited as DS9's best season overall, and one of the best in all of sci-fi/fantasy. I tend to agree, yet it contains no true serialized arcs. That doesn't stop it from providing some very cohesive and layered storytelling.

DS9 is not a serialized show for the most part. It is mostly a show about character and world building that also includes a few serial arcs.

 

[Cepstrum]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

The Occupation Arc and the Final Chapter are great, but I voted "no." Case in point: Season 5, which is often cited as DS9's best season overall, and one of the best in all of sci-fi/fantasy. I tend to agree, yet it contains no true serialized arcs. That doesn't stop it from providing some very cohesive and layered storytelling.

DS9 is not a serialized show for the most part. It is mostly a show about character and world building that also includes a few serial arcs.

Wow, this is undermining my preconceptions.

I have heard many times that DS9's season five was one of the greatest seasons of a sci-fi show of all time. Can you (or someone) help me understand why that was? To me, seasons 4--7 kind of blurred together. And I didn't really care a whole lot for Apocalypse Rising, The Ascent, A Simple Investigation, or Empok Nor. But it had my favorite show, In the Cards.

Is the reason for its acclaim the fact that almost all episodes were quite good (with few or no clunkers) and that it still managed to preserve the various arcs (Dukat, the Dominion, the Klingon War, Bajor's political situation) despite not overtly dealing with them, as in say, the six-part war arc that began season six (and actually started with the end of season five)? It also ended Odo's "exile" from his changeling status.

It certainly maintained a high level of tension that culminated in the breakout of the Dominion War. All those visits by Weyoun and Dukat were highly tense. And the surprising revelations in the two part Purgatory's Shadow/Inferno's Light were significant. Plus it introduced the excellent Martok and began to give Damar a bigger role. Finally, it foreshadowed the eventual breakdown in relations between the Cardassians and the Dominion. (Dukat frequently had to reign in Damar's obvious disdain for their Dominion overlords, and when Weyoun wasn't watching, he indicated he was merely paying lip service about his loyalty to the Dominion.)

So are those some of the reasons, or are there others?

 

[Cyke101]

Re: How would the removal of the two arcs affect your fondness for DS9

The six-hour arc is what really defined how great Trek could be to me on a practical level, as opposed to the more fantastical Trek that we all know and had already proven itself by then.

But the last arc, while I wouldn't take it out, I would definitely change it up a bit (re: try to improve it).