How will Scotty be introduced?

[Cary L. Brown]

The question is not how will Scotty be introduced, but how will McCoy be introduced, he's not supposed to be there.

How do you figure? Just because McCoy wasn't seen in either pilot doesn't mean that he wasn't involved with Starfleet. You could easily say the same about Chekov, who wasn't seen until Season Two.

Right.

There's good reason to believe that McCoy wasn't serving on the Enterprise when Kirk first took command. But there's also good reason to believe that Kirk and McCoy knew each other long before that point.

The sad thing about most of these conversations is that everyone seems to assume that all of the pieces have to have fallen into place simultaneously. Suddenly, out of nowhere, these people suddenly appear, all at once and all as we remember them.

We know McCoy knew about Carol Marcus. We know that Kirk knew about McCoy's "one woman in his past" and so forth. The first time we see McCoy, it's clear that they've known each other for a while. We know that McCoy has been in private practice at least once. We know the McCoy did other things before serving on the Enterprise.

All that is very logical. These people, were they "real" people, would have had LIVES that didn't involve only these seven other characters.

 

[captainkirk]

One thing I considered was that since Kirk obviously knew him was that after the other CMO left Kirk offered him the job or that McCoy was the assistant CMO.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

One thing I considered was that since Kirk obviously knew him was that after the other CMO left Kirk offered him the job or that McCoy was the assistant CMO.

If you want to make this fit in better with the way we normally experience life, you need to go with the first option.

Military officers have a hard life to live... and yes, Kirk is a "military" officer regardless of whether or not you consider Starfleet to be primarily military in PURPOSE. It's undeniable that it's military in STRUCTURE.

Being a commanding officer is a fairly lonely situation in general. In ground-based situations, the officers generally associate with other officers of similar or identical rank, outside of their command structure. Officers are prohibited from fraternizing AT ALL with anyone under their command, and that's a court-martial offense.

Obviously, in a situation like a naval vessel which is out of contact for months at a time, there's a bit more leeway given for the commander to socialize with the other higher-ranking personnel aboard. But not with the general crew. (You can't have him simply go from the bridge to locking himmself in isolation in his quarters and expect him to maintain any form of sanity, can you?)

The same applies to Starfleet, I'm sure. Kirk wanted to have friends on his command... really, he NEEDED them. First, he brought on his best friend Gary Mitchell. There was some indication of a little bit of a connection between him and Spock as well, but not as much as between Kirk and Mitchell.

When Mitchell died... Spock was Kirk's only "friend" on the ship. Shortly afterwards, Piper left. So, if Kirk had a qualified friend who was available, he'd have requested him as a replacement. It seems to me that Kirk REQUESTING McCoy be assigned plays to the level of their friendship in a far more plausible and MEANINGFUL fashion than, say, Kirk having palled around with a junior subordinate and gotten to be friends while serving on Enterprise... don't you think?

 

[Kokomo]

One thing I considered was that since Kirk obviously knew him was that after the other CMO left Kirk offered him the job or that McCoy was the assistant CMO.

If you want to make this fit in better with the way we normally experience life, you need to go with the first option.

Military officers have a hard life to live... and yes, Kirk is a "military" officer regardless of whether or not you consider Starfleet to be primarily military in PURPOSE. It's undeniable that it's military in STRUCTURE.

Being a commanding officer is a fairly lonely situation in general. In ground-based situations, the officers generally associate with other officers of similar or identical rank, outside of their command structure. Officers are prohibited from fraternizing AT ALL with anyone under their command, and that's a court-martial offense.

Obviously, in a situation like a naval vessel which is out of contact for months at a time, there's a bit more leeway given for the commander to socialize with the other higher-ranking personnel aboard. But not with the general crew. (You can't have him simply go from the bridge to locking himmself in isolation in his quarters and expect him to maintain any form of sanity, can you?)

The same applies to Starfleet, I'm sure. Kirk wanted to have friends on his command... really, he NEEDED them. First, he brought on his best friend Gary Mitchell. There was some indication of a little bit of a connection between him and Spock as well, but not as much as between Kirk and Mitchell.

When Mitchell died... Spock was Kirk's only "friend" on the ship. Shortly afterwards, Piper left. So, if Kirk had a qualified friend who was available, he'd have requested him as a replacement. It seems to me that Kirk REQUESTING McCoy be assigned plays to the level of their friendship in a far more plausible and MEANINGFUL fashion than, say, Kirk having palled around with a junior subordinate and gotten to be friends while serving on Enterprise... don't you think?

Very well said I totally agree with you on this!

 

[Procutus]

Damn Cary, I'm beginning to wish that you had written this script!

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Damn Cary, I'm beginning to wish that you had written this script!

Well, I'm no good at writing dialog... I'd make a better producer than a screenwriter.

 

[pookha]

The question is not how will Scotty be introduced, but how will McCoy be introduced, he's not supposed to be there.

go watch corbomite manauver some time.
it is pretty evident from the give and take they have together the two
have known each other for a long time.

heck bones could have been away on a special mission during the time period of where no man for all we know.

 

[Sector 7]

The question is not how will Scotty be introduced, but how will McCoy be introduced, he's not supposed to be there.

How do you figure? Just because McCoy wasn't seen in either pilot doesn't mean that he wasn't involved with Starfleet. You could easily say the same about Chekov, who wasn't seen until Season Two.

The question is not how will Scotty be introduced, but how will McCoy be introduced, he's not supposed to be there.

go watch corbomite manauver some time.
it is pretty evident from the give and take they have together the two
have known each other for a long time.

heck bones could have been away on a special mission during the time period of where no man for all we know.

Two words: Maternity leave... like Gates McFadden. McCoy either went on maternity leave or took a temporary assignment or was away curing a plague somewhere...

 

[Mike Farley]

Also important: will Welshy have a cameo?

 

[Swarles Barkley]

Scotty (entering bar): Afternoon everyone.
Everyone in bar: Scotty!!!
Guinan: What's going on Mr. Scott?
Scotty: A flashing sign in my gut that says 'Insert Romulan Ale here.'

 

[seigezunt]

the more I think about it, I am looking the most forward to seeing how Pegg plays Scotty. Of all the characters, really. Strangely. Perhaps becuase there's more room to fill in the character, and because James Doohan is so beloved, he will shine through it, I'm sure.

 

[seigezunt]

and, Cary, I wish they'd hire you to be a writer at the franchise.

 

[TK421]

Drunk preferably. And in a fight.

 

[Space Cowboy]

More importantly, he shall utter the phrase,

"Ye cannae change the laws o' physics Capt'n!"

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The question is not how will Scotty be introduced, but how will McCoy be introduced, he's not supposed to be there.

go watch corbomite manauver some time.
it is pretty evident from the give and take they have together the two
have known each other for a long time.

heck bones could have been away on a special mission during the time period of where no man for all we know.

I agree with pookha.

We don't know that McCoy wasn't part of the crew in WNMHGB. We just didn't see him in that episode. There were 25 episodes scattered throughout Star Trek's run that didn't include Sulu. That doesn't mean that Sulu was not part of the crew durring those episodes...we just didn't see him.

Heck, even Dr. McCoy was not seen in two other episodes besides WNMHGB. When watching What are Little Girls Made of or Errand of Mercy nobody said "hey, I don't see McCoy -- he must not be the doctor anymore." Why not treat WNMHGB just like we treat those other two episodes and assume McCoy WAS part of the crew, but just not seen in that episode.

And before you counter with "..but Mark Piper was the Doctor", I would like to point out that Mark Piper was A doctor, but not necessarily THE doctor. In fact, Dr. Piper was introduced to as as "The head of the Life Sciences Department". That doesn't automatically make him the "Chief Medical Officer".

I'm not saying that it was Roddenberry's intention to make McCoy the CMO all along. I'm sure that Piper WAS in fact supposed to be THE doctor when WNMHGB was made. But that all becomes irrelevant if Abrams shows McCoy on the Enterprise pre-WNMHGB. This would not be the first time that past events needed to be re-interpreted to fit a later-stated fact. That has been done time and time again in the strange world of Star Trek canon.

 

[chardman]

I'm picturing a wide curved staircase, lined with tuxedoed gents, ala "Hello Dolly". But that's just me.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

The question is not how will Scotty be introduced, but how will McCoy be introduced, he's not supposed to be there.

go watch corbomite manauver some time.
it is pretty evident from the give and take they have together the two
have known each other for a long time.

heck bones could have been away on a special mission during the time period of where no man for all we know.

I agree with pookha.

We don't know that McCoy wasn't part of the crew in WNMHGB. We just didn't see him in that episode. There were 25 episodes scattered throughout Star Trek's run that didn't include Sulu. That doesn't mean that Sulu was not part of the crew durring those episodes...we just didn't see him.

Heck, even Dr. McCoy was not seen in two other episodes besides WNMHGB. When watching What are Little Girls Made of or Errand of Mercy nobody said "hey, I don't see McCoy -- he must not be the doctor anymore." Why not treat WNMHGB just like we treat those other two episodes and assume McCoy WAS part of the crew, but just not seen in that episode.

And before you counter with "..but Mark Piper was the Doctor", I would like to point out that Mark Piper was A doctor, but not necessarily THE doctor. In fact, Dr. Piper was introduced to as as "The head of the Life Sciences Department". That doesn't automatically make him the "Chief Medical Officer".

I'm not saying that it was Roddenberry's intention to make McCoy the CMO all along. I'm sure that Piper WAS in fact supposed to be THE doctor when WNMHGB was made. But that all becomes irrelevant if Abrams shows McCoy on the Enterprise pre-WNMHGB. This would not be the first time that past events needed to be re-interpreted to fit a later-stated fact. That has been done time and time again in the strange world of Star Trek canon.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it presumes that in order for Kirk and McCoy to have known each other, they had to have met on the Enterprise.

Real life doesn't work that way. I think it's 100% clear that McCoy and Kirk had a prior acquaintance before the first time we ever see him. In fact, in TWOK, it's indicated that McCoy knows about Carol Marcus (which indicates a LONG acquaintance... significantly longer than Kirk's time in command of Enterprise).

So... the choice isn't "did McCoy and Kirk first meet on the Enterprise when we first see McCoy" or "did McCoy and Kirk first meet on the Enterprise before we first see him." But it seems that those are the only two options many of you are looking at.

This is why I was happy to find out that much of this film wouldn't be on the Enterprise at all, and why I was HOPEFUL that we'd barely see Enterprise at all. It's a biiiiiiiig galaxy... and these characters weren't BORN on the bridge. They all had lives beforehand... and yes, they may (and at least in the cases of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, almost certainly did) have met prior to any of them being stationed together.

In fact, as I've said before, it makes for a closer relationship between Kirk and McCoy if Kirk REQUESTED MCCOY BE ASSIGNED, due to a pre-existing relationship....

Doesn't it?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it presumes that in order for Kirk and McCoy to have known each other, they had to have met on the Enterprise...

Not really.

There is nothing in what I said that would preclude Kirk from knowing McCoy (and even being buddies) prior to WNMHGB, nor would preclude Kirk from requesting McCoy to be part of his crew. I'm just saying this stuff could have happened before WNMHGB -- in fact it could have happened before Kirk's "day one" on the Enterprise.

Here's a possible scenario: A "pre-captain" Kirk and McCoy meet and become friends. Later Kirk is given command of the Enterprise. He requests -- and gets -- his good friend McCoy as part of his crew, maybe even as CMO. The events of WNMHGB occur, but McCoy is not on the ship for some reason -- perhaps "on assignment" or something, as suggested by others.

Why not?

 

[THE CHEBB]

In a drunken brawl involving a midget.

Like the gold midgets from Journey to Babel? Bwhahaha