How To Save American Public Schools Pt. 1

[Scout101]

Teachers in my town are considering striking because due to the budget situations, they've been asked to pay 20% of their health care costs...

 

[Scout101]

why ARE they entitled to free health care, though, when every other normal worker is expected to pay at least a portion of the cost out of their checks?

I don't know...I have had "normal" jobs with completely free health care, although that is becoming a thing of the past. I have heard of some states too where teachers pay a portion of their health care costs. NC still pays a teacher's costs 100%, but if you want the "Gold Plan", you have to pay for it. The state pays for the 2nd and 3rd tier plans, which are still pretty good. Of course, if I put my family on the plan, then I do have to pay for that.

I think the idea behind free health care for teachers is that it is hard enough getting qualified people to teach anyway...free health care is meant to be one more carrot to attract potential employees. My local school system even starts health care coverage on day one of employment, instead of making you wait 90 days. The principal told me that was yet another way to hopefully entice new teachers...

Like anywhere else, though, if they aren't paying enough to attract new teachers, they'll have to increase the pay. What else can you do? If a job is worth $30k, and you offer $20k, not going to get people knocking down your door.

 

[Dayton3]

Because of federal tax laws, for most employers it is cheaper to provide free health insurance than a comparable increase in salary because IIRC, health insurance is deductible as a expense of the employer/

 

[ParticleMan]

I've never had anything like tenure nor have I ever been a member of a teachers union.

Besides that, people forget that teachers in public schools have basically NO authority anymore.

No authority over the students. No control over teaching methodology.

NONE. NONE AT ALL.

Schools worried about lawsuits stripped teachers of the ability to exerciise discipline in their classrooms.

Schools convinced that there is a "right" way to teach each subject and concerned over accounting for how they spent education funds stripped teachers of the ability to choose the best teaching methods for their students.

Yeah, school systems and board of education are trying to create a homogenized course of study for a decidedly heterogenous group of students...there's little leeway to tailor the curriculum to the circumstances because with most core subjects, everyone takes the same standardized test, regardless of situation or ability.

 

[ParticleMan]

why ARE they entitled to free health care, though, when every other normal worker is expected to pay at least a portion of the cost out of their checks?

I don't know...I have had "normal" jobs with completely free health care, although that is becoming a thing of the past. I have heard of some states too where teachers pay a portion of their health care costs. NC still pays a teacher's costs 100%, but if you want the "Gold Plan", you have to pay for it. The state pays for the 2nd and 3rd tier plans, which are still pretty good. Of course, if I put my family on the plan, then I do have to pay for that.

I think the idea behind free health care for teachers is that it is hard enough getting qualified people to teach anyway...free health care is meant to be one more carrot to attract potential employees. My local school system even starts health care coverage on day one of employment, instead of making you wait 90 days. The principal told me that was yet another way to hopefully entice new teachers...

Like anywhere else, though, if they aren't paying enough to attract new teachers, they'll have to increase the pay. What else can you do? If a job is worth $30k, and you offer $20k, not going to get people knocking down your door.

Yeah, pay increases are one way to go, but working environment is another. As we have discussed earlier, when the teacher has no real authority, no control over curriculum and no incentive to do better, then you either don't get good candidates or you don't keep them for very long.

 

[Scout101]

keeping current tenure rules doesn't change that, though. It just protects that BAD candidates from being let go when they underperform...

 

[LeadHead]

How do you measure underperformance? Many times good teachers are forced to take on special education students in a standard class. That is something that can drag down a teacher's performance in no time flat because they have to dedicate more time to those students than every other. Also achievement for those students is a whole other achievement from the others.

 

[ParticleMan]

How do you measure underperformance? Many times good teachers are forced to take on special education students in a standard class. That is something that can drag down a teacher's performance in no time flat because they have to dedicate more time to those students than every other. Also achievement for those students is a whole other achievement from the others.

Yeah, there is a difference in a teacher who is dealing with a situation like you have described and one who is simply goofing off. I have had to teach in a room with mainstreamed special ed students and it is NOT easy, especially when those student's are not able to read or write. This is the issue with basing teacher performance solely on test scores that don't take into account situations like this.

I think that this is an instance where regular, unscheduled classroom observations could help. I mean, if Mr. Smith was planning on showing a movie and playing his DS during math class and suddenly the principal shows up with clipboard in hand...then Mr. Smith is screwed unless he is a damn good improviser...

 

[Colonel Green]

How do you measure underperformance? Many times good teachers are forced to take on special education students in a standard class. That is something that can drag down a teacher's performance in no time flat because they have to dedicate more time to those students than every other. Also achievement for those students is a whole other achievement from the others.

Yeah, there is a difference in a teacher who is dealing with a situation like you have described and one who is simply goofing off. I have had to teach in a room with mainstreamed special ed students and it is NOT easy, especially when those student's are not able to read or write. This is the issue with basing teacher performance solely on test scores that don't take into account situations like this.

I think that this is an instance where regular, unscheduled classroom observations could help. I mean, if Mr. Smith was planning on showing a movie and playing his DS during math class and suddenly the principal shows up with clipboard in hand...then Mr. Smith is screwed unless he is a damn good improviser...

What if that movie was directly related to the curriculum and was being shown as a reward for excellent performance by the students?

Showing a movie =/ a bad teacher.

If they can't control their kids enough to get them to school, they have no business with parental rights anyway. Strip them of those rights.

LOL. No hot button issues here.

 

[ParticleMan]

How do you measure underperformance? Many times good teachers are forced to take on special education students in a standard class. That is something that can drag down a teacher's performance in no time flat because they have to dedicate more time to those students than every other. Also achievement for those students is a whole other achievement from the others.

Yeah, there is a difference in a teacher who is dealing with a situation like you have described and one who is simply goofing off. I have had to teach in a room with mainstreamed special ed students and it is NOT easy, especially when those student's are not able to read or write. This is the issue with basing teacher performance solely on test scores that don't take into account situations like this.

I think that this is an instance where regular, unscheduled classroom observations could help. I mean, if Mr. Smith was planning on showing a movie and playing his DS during math class and suddenly the principal shows up with clipboard in hand...then Mr. Smith is screwed unless he is a damn good improviser...

What if that movie was directly related to the curriculum and was being shown as a reward for excellent performance by the students?

Showing a movie =/ a bad teacher.

If they can't control their kids enough to get them to school, they have no business with parental rights anyway. Strip them of those rights.

LOL. No hot button issues here.

Well, I was assuming in that scenario that the movie was a time waster and not applicable to the subject at hand. Movies can be good tools in the classroom if used right. I remember watching Mr. Smith Goes to Washington in Government class specifically because one of the characters gives a very good explanation of how a bill becomes a law. In that case, it was helpful and applicable to what we were studying.

My example came from a former student of mine who had a 7th grade math teacher who showed unrelated movies most class periods so he could play his Nintendo DS in the back of the room while the students watched...I don't know what happened to that teacher, but I do know that the student had to take remedial math when he transferred to our school.

 

[Trekker4747]

I've wondered about the problem of public education in America for a number of years, more so since becoming an educator myself.

After talking to hundreds of teachers and administrators over the years, I've come up with a few things that must be done to really save and reform public education in the United States.

Number One.

Fight Absenteeism (hope I didn't put too many e's but I'm on lunch)

The main reason students do poorly in schools today isn't that they aren't smart enough or the teachers aren't good enough.

The main reason is the most basic.

THEY MISS TOO MUCH SCHOOL!!!

Most schools give a student a failing grade if they miss too many days of a class. And even if they don't it is next to impossible to keep up if they are regularly absent.

Even my top of the line A students routinely miss a couple of days a month. It doesn't sound like much, but how many jobs would someone keep if they miss 24 days a year?

School districts and states need to tighten down on absent students and their parents dramatically. Forget incentives for perfect or near perfect attendence. That has been tried already.

Attack the problem where it hurts. That is the pocketbook.

Fine parents or guardians HEAVILY who have kids missing school
excessively.

If they can't control their kids enough to get them to school, they have no business with parental rights anyway. Strip them of those rights.

I guarantee that once a parent is forced to pay a $500 fine that they will move heaven and earth to make certain their kids get to school.

Conquer absenteeism, and one third of the battle to improve schools is won.

This is the worst idea in the long, sad, history of bad ideas.


Fixing schools is simple: Better educators.

More educators like my 10th grade Algebra teacher. He was a guy you didn't fuck with, you didn't dick around in class you didn't miss an asignment without getting detention and he was able to clearly and effectively teach his subject and still manage to actualy be personable and somewhat funny.

Best teacher I've ever had.

 

[Trippy]

I'm a Canadian teacher, but I'll add my .02 anyway.

Yes, I'm unionized. Healthcare is a non-issue in Canada, but I have an excellent extended healthcare package. We get paid a decent salary too comparatively.

Absenteeism-in our board, a call goes home if a parent has not called for their teen. If a student skips a class, a Vice Principal calls them down to the office for a detention. We (teachers) call parents all the time for behaviour issues, missed/late assignments etc. Some parents are great, and there is marked improvement in the student. Some parents blame the teacher, school, anything but their 'little darling'. Some parents don't call us back at all if we leave a message.

We teachers have a set curriculum we must follow. Every class has the texts set out. The teacher though, sets the tone of a class, and their delivery style. For the most part, I am successful in reaching my students. I am always working on improving my teaching style as well.

I'm also not sure of the tenure thing...meaning you can't get fired? Well, we can't get fired without intervention from the union.

 

[Kryton]

Fixing schools is simple: Better educators.

Each and every person charged as an "educator" or "teacher" in public schools must be accredited to do so with a degree in the field. None of these simple-minded "citizen teaches" who never learned public education as a noble profession but who took to it because somehow they managed to fall into lax qualifications.

 

[Gertch]

Fixing schools is simple: Better educators.

Each and every person charged as an "educator" or "teacher" in public schools must be accredited to do so with a degree in the field. None of these simple-minded "citizen teaches" who never learned public education as a noble profession but who took to it because somehow they managed to fall into lax qualifications.

Unless they are a teacher in Mass.

allow some aspiring teachers in Massachusetts to be licensed even if they fail a licensure test three times.

 

[JuanBolio]

Ridiculous idea. The state has no right to fine parents for their children missing school.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

Fixing schools is simple: Better educators.

That's nearly as simplistic a solution. You can fill the school with the best damn educators in the universe and if the parents don't give a shit, kids will still miss school and will still goof off.

The best schools have a combination of great, committed teachers and involved parents.

I live in a city with a crappy public school system. They're nearly $100 million in the whole on what they call an "accounting error" that necessitated teachers losing jobs during the school year. .

The schools on the whole are stereotypical public schools - low test scores, crowded classrooms, and the like. There are a number of standouts and every single one has a strong parent commitment and involvement in the school.

When parents are involved and committed to the education process, their students do better. They go to school, they participate, and they learn. The parents know what is going on and deliver the message to the kids that school is important and what you do at school will have consequences at home.

I'd bet that there's a direct correlation in Trippy's class between the students who are more engaged in learning and the level of involvement/ commitment of their parents. Might even go so far as to say it's a causal relationship.

For the record, we have chosen to pay for education twice by sending our kids to a private school. One of the teachers is new to the school this year, she came from the public school. A comment she made to my wife was that she sometimes wished the parents would leave her alone - there's so much involvement. Coming from the public system, the parents that called her back or communicated with her stood out for their uniqueness.

Best teacher I've ever had.

As good as he was, I'd wager that if your parents didn't stress the importance of education and behaving yourself, the likelihood of you having the same experience would have been much less.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well how about this: Kids who don't want to learn? Fuck them. Let them miss school, become crack whores and die in the street.

Forcing kids who don't want to be in school to be there will only hurt those who want to learn.

 

[T'Baio]

None of these simple-minded "citizen teaches" who never learned public education as a noble profession but who took to it because somehow they managed to fall into lax qualifications.

Hmm...who does that sound like?

 

[T'Baio]

Well how about this: Kids who don't want to learn? Fuck them. Let them miss school, become crack whores and die in the street.

Forcing kids who don't want to be in school to be there will only hurt those who want to learn.

One part of me wants to agree with you.

The other part realizes that it's not fair to give up on kids just because their parents never tried.

 

[Kryton]

None of these simple-minded "citizen teaches" who never learned public education as a noble profession but who took to it because somehow they managed to fall into lax qualifications.

Hmm...who does that sound like?

Sounds to me like something I would say in light of the fact that my mother, despite severe dyslexia succeeded in attaining and periodically RE-attaining credentials sustaining her abilities, managed to succeed in her chosen profession for more than 35 years. And she knows these "citizen teachers" are full of total shit. She is a wise woman and knows her chosen profession.