How To Save American Public Schools Pt. 1
- Thread starter Dayton3
- Start date
I disagree with the premise that no-shows are the biggest problem in the school system.
It's the teachers themselves, and the program, in many instances, that is part of the problem. Teachers get comfortable, and then with tenure become entrenched, which is a silly practice anyway. They may COME IN on the ball, but as time goes on, it seems many lose touch a bit, or fall into a routine of teaching the same rote material, from the same binders, every year. Doesn't seem like enough is done to shake things up, and keep the teachers relating to the kids. Ignoring all other problems, if you've got an active, engaging teacher, trying to keep relevent and interacting with the students (and dumping the crap that doesn't work), the other problems are minor.
Overcrowding and underfunding would be my next two targets...
It's the teachers themselves, and the program, in many instances, that is part of the problem. Teachers get comfortable, and then with tenure become entrenched, which is a silly practice anyway. They may COME IN on the ball, but as time goes on, it seems many lose touch a bit, or fall into a routine of teaching the same rote material, from the same binders, every year. Doesn't seem like enough is done to shake things up, and keep the teachers relating to the kids. Ignoring all other problems, if you've got an active, engaging teacher, trying to keep relevent and interacting with the students (and dumping the crap that doesn't work), the other problems are minor.
Overcrowding and underfunding would be my next two targets...
The trick here is that there is such bureaucracy that it can be difficult to get clear and direct action taken toward a student who is out of bounds. I think that making the student directly responsible is a good idea, however we can't deny that there are a lot of parents who will go to any length to protect their child from consequences, even as far as legal challenges and such. The bad thing is that for many kids, mommy and daddy are buffers for life consequences well into a "kid's" twenties.
I don't think that stripping parental rights would solve anything and would open up a whole new can of legal worms that would create more problems than anything. I do think that there needs to be some way to hold the student personally accountable for his actions, but it needs to be done in a way that doesn't overburden the legal system by tossing the kids over to a cop or judge, but still has the authority behind it to be enforcable.
It's hard...I mean, I guess the obvious thing would be to expel the kid, but then what happens? You have a kid who doesn't graduate high school and becomes an even bigger drain on society...
Well that's getting into a cultural issue: We've created this false second childhood called the teenage years, only to turn around and tell them that they are expected to behave as adults, then turn around again and say "well you're under the magic number [18] you don't have to pay the price, so mommy and daddy will save you from the big bad world." We send a mixed signal of "Highschool means you have to grow up and be an adult now" and "You're just 16, you still need to be a kid a little longer."
I've long held that the minute they enter highschool, students should be wholly responsible for their own actions and the consequences that come from that. That's part of growing up, you have to pay the price for what you do.
Expulsion should be pulled from the books all together. In some cases, that's what they [the studen] want. If what they did was so bad they need the boot from a normal school, then put them in a alternative-school.
I can see your point about teachers. I've worked with really good and really bad ones, just like in any other job I've had. But in defense of teachers, there is a tremendous amount of bureaucracy above them pushing down creativity and innovation in a lot of cases. Schools have become so test-driven that a teacher HAS to focus on exactly what is on that end of course test mandated by the state that there is little time to expand beyond that.
Teachers need to be passionate about what they teach...but they need to have some measure of freedom to express that passion without being punished for test scores as if they are the one and only thing that makes the difference in that area.
And just like any job, a teacher can get himself into a rut and just pass year to year without changing. I taught for five years and dug myself into a pretty good rut, which is why I have taken a couple of years off to recharge and refocus myself. I intend to be back in the classroom next year, hopefully refreshed, more mature and with a new perspective besides that of a new college grad.
I do think that the idea of tenure is not a bad thing, but in practice it seems to backfire. I know of many teachers who mess around in class, showing movies and doing the bare minimum who need to GO. But I also don't want to see a teacher booted because Mr. Community Moneybags doesn't like that little Junior failed biology, either.
And I can't let this go without reiterating the responsibility of parents in education. If a parent doesn't instill in a student the importance of education and create a home environment where the child is taught how to respond to authority, then there is little a teacher can do to overcome that.
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that teenagers (and college students too) are given conflicting expectations between being a kid and being an adult. I think that the more responsible a student is, the better success they will be in life in general. But, as you said, this is a sociological issue more than an educational issue.
And I like the idea of alternative schools, too. I know of a number of kids who ended up there and because of the personal attention they got in the alt school, graduated and got on a good track for life. I don't think that just kicking a kid out into nothingness is a good idea at all....
Still disagree about tenure. If someone is doing a bad job, or no longer engaging, they should be able to be fired just like any other worker. Whether they've been there 5 years or 30, if they aren't performing at an acceptable level, they should be let go. Not because of a whiny kid complaining, but because they simply aren't doing their job at the desired level. Like the rest of the workforce. If you slack off, or someone can do your job better than you, you find new work.
The Teachers' Unions go too far in protecting teachers. And hearing them complain about things like having to pay a percentage of their health care (like the rest of the world), for example, is absurd. In most parts of the country, the pay isn't great, but people know that going in. they also know they are getting 2-3 months off a year, plus holiday and vacation weeks during the school year. Plenty of people making similar money that pay health care, and get 2 weeks a year off total. They've got it better than they complain they do...
The Teachers' Unions go too far in protecting teachers. And hearing them complain about things like having to pay a percentage of their health care (like the rest of the world), for example, is absurd. In most parts of the country, the pay isn't great, but people know that going in. they also know they are getting 2-3 months off a year, plus holiday and vacation weeks during the school year. Plenty of people making similar money that pay health care, and get 2 weeks a year off total. They've got it better than they complain they do...
I think that's a perfectly reasonable point of view. I agree with you. Removing a child from the parents because of educational neglect does happen, at least it does in SC, but it's usually found to also involve medical and/or physical neglect.
Yeah, I dont' think that blanket tenure is the answer...cut loose dead weight if they aren't performing while still protect teachers from false accusations. The flip side is that in the "real world" pay is linked to performance...in the educational world it is linked to years in service and the level of degree. Introduce some incentives for the good teachers and some penalties for the poor ones. It is hard to motivate yourself when you know that whether you spend 2 hours a week or 20 hours a week outside the classroom prepping that you will get the same check as the assistant football coach/history teacher who dicks around all class period. Give the teachers a tangible goal to reach for, and you'd see a lot more of them push themselves.
Regarding summers off...yeah, I miss that! And I never complained too much about my school year workload because I knew that it was worth it for the summers. This time around, though, I intend to use summers to further my own personal education and do more substantial prep for the upcoming year. Before, I slacked off and would try to rush around at the beginning of August to get ready.
I received a phonecall from my son's principal once because he was concerned that my teenage son was not wearing his school uniforn ts school. After speaking about the problem I ended up telling the proncipal that I was having many problems with Daniel and of those problems the school uniform issue was low down on the list.
Then, almost like an afterthought, the principal mentioned how my son was only turning up at school about 2 days a week. I was horrified as my son was leaving for school every day and I had no idea that he wasn''t turning up. It seems that his absenteeism has been going on for more than 6 weeks and no-one thought to ask me about it!!!
The principal said Daniel had bought notes to school explaining his absences. I went to the school and looked at one of the notes. I think any adult with a bit of sense could have worked out that Daniel himself had written it especially if they compared it to a sample of his own handwriting.
After that I started catching the bus to school with Daniel (not the school bus). This meant I had to trust my youngest son to get to school by himself as I couldn't deliver both to school.
As a teenager my youngest son wagged (played hookey) from school a handful of times usually with a friend. He did however miss a lot of school during his early years due to illness as he was a very sickly child thoiugh this was mainly in kindergarten through to grade 2. His health started to improve when he was 7 or 8 years old.
Then, almost like an afterthought, the principal mentioned how my son was only turning up at school about 2 days a week. I was horrified as my son was leaving for school every day and I had no idea that he wasn''t turning up. It seems that his absenteeism has been going on for more than 6 weeks and no-one thought to ask me about it!!!
The principal said Daniel had bought notes to school explaining his absences. I went to the school and looked at one of the notes. I think any adult with a bit of sense could have worked out that Daniel himself had written it especially if they compared it to a sample of his own handwriting.
After that I started catching the bus to school with Daniel (not the school bus). This meant I had to trust my youngest son to get to school by himself as I couldn't deliver both to school.
As a teenager my youngest son wagged (played hookey) from school a handful of times usually with a friend. He did however miss a lot of school during his early years due to illness as he was a very sickly child thoiugh this was mainly in kindergarten through to grade 2. His health started to improve when he was 7 or 8 years old.
And "educational neglect" is much harder to prove than physical or medical neglect. But unfortunately, in some cases, they all three go hand in hand.
Teachers Unions don't have the capability to go far enough in protecting teachers, especially since ever time there's a budget crisis in a local, state or federal governement, who is the first to get the budget cuts, that's right kids, Education!
Teachers are the single most important component to the education system, they don't need the superintendant one one-hundreth as they need a teacher. The biggest problem wih education is the amount of money that gets wasted in it by school boards and bureacrats who should be in jail for defrauding the people. I've been to District Headquarters that were palaces then gone to schools in those districts that barely had running water.
How to make a big dent in the education problem, require that 90-95 percent of all education funding be spent either in the classroom or on schools specifically, make those crooks who tell teachers that they need to take a pay cut, lose ther health benefits or look for another job justify every single cent they waste in their unneeded positions.
Teachers are the single most important component to the education system, they don't need the superintendant one one-hundreth as they need a teacher. The biggest problem wih education is the amount of money that gets wasted in it by school boards and bureacrats who should be in jail for defrauding the people. I've been to District Headquarters that were palaces then gone to schools in those districts that barely had running water.
How to make a big dent in the education problem, require that 90-95 percent of all education funding be spent either in the classroom or on schools specifically, make those crooks who tell teachers that they need to take a pay cut, lose ther health benefits or look for another job justify every single cent they waste in their unneeded positions.
One fundamental thing that needs to change is the concept of school versus parents, either one way or the other. Instead of it being what should the school do for students or what should parents do for the kids, it should be "What can WE [parents and schools together] so that our kids get the best possible education and preparation for life.
I think that there are two problems: forcing students to go to school and sports programs within the schools. They should be a place of a learning, not a place where kids can ignore their studies for sports and also put them in classrooms with "teachers" who only can get the job because they failed so much in sports that all they can do tell kids to run laps and then half-assedly teach Health 'Class'.
I've never had anything like tenure nor have I ever been a member of a teachers union.
Besides that, people forget that teachers in public schools have basically NO authority anymore.
No authority over the students. No control over teaching methodology.
NONE. NONE AT ALL.
Schools worried about lawsuits stripped teachers of the ability to exerciise discipline in their classrooms.
Schools convinced that there is a "right" way to teach each subject and concerned over accounting for how they spent education funds stripped teachers of the ability to choose the best teaching methods for their students.
Besides that, people forget that teachers in public schools have basically NO authority anymore.
No authority over the students. No control over teaching methodology.
NONE. NONE AT ALL.
Schools worried about lawsuits stripped teachers of the ability to exerciise discipline in their classrooms.
Schools convinced that there is a "right" way to teach each subject and concerned over accounting for how they spent education funds stripped teachers of the ability to choose the best teaching methods for their students.
Yeah, while I don't necessarily think that more money is always the answer, school systems definitely need to better allocate the money they do have. My teacher friends' biggest complaint isn't the behavior of the students or the actions of the parents...it is the foolishness of the bureaucrats who run the show. Our local NC schools just got a big chunk of state money took away as the economy has tanked. But I am pretty sure that the higher ups in Raleigh didn't take a pay cut...
Who gets free health care?
The insurance I can get through the schools I've worked at his so expensive that I can't afford it for my family.
Some of us can't afford 600 dollars a month in health insurance.
I don't know...I have had "normal" jobs with completely free health care, although that is becoming a thing of the past. I have heard of some states too where teachers pay a portion of their health care costs. NC still pays a teacher's costs 100%, but if you want the "Gold Plan", you have to pay for it. The state pays for the 2nd and 3rd tier plans, which are still pretty good. Of course, if I put my family on the plan, then I do have to pay for that.
I think the idea behind free health care for teachers is that it is hard enough getting qualified people to teach anyway...free health care is meant to be one more carrot to attract potential employees. My local school system even starts health care coverage on day one of employment, instead of making you wait 90 days. The principal told me that was yet another way to hopefully entice new teachers...
Similar threads
