Just say that, don't hide it.
How to replace "prayer"?
- Thread starter ThankQ
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Just say that, don't hide it.
Seems you have similar issues with finding an alternative to these sentiments.
I love the massive scope of the implicit question behind these statements: "are feelings rational or not?". It's OT, but since it's your thread anyway...
I hadn't thought about it heavily before I posted, but your angle on it is interesting. I automatically/intuitively categorised emotions as irrational, but your separation of emotion from causal effect is challenging that assumption, so now I'm wondering what - if any - intellectual justification I have for my intuition.
I think it would be this:
I certainly agree that one can choose how to respond to an emotion. No question about that.
The underlying question we differ on is whether a mood is "a biological response" and whether that makes it free of irrationality or not.
Clearly, in the sense that it is generated internally, in response to a set of external stimuli, it is biological in origin. But I would suggest that it is not free of irrationality, because mood does not arise in a simple direct causal relationship to external stimuli. There is a cognitive aspect to perception that modifies the raw "real" aspects to external stimuli and it is our perception of reality that drives our moods. The same set of external stimuli can result in very different perceptions, and moods, some of which are rational and some which are not.
For instance, the classic "illusion" of perceiving a bush in the wind when walking home tired at night as a possible mugger, whereas in the daytime you'd see it as the bush it is. Same basic stimuli, diffent perception, and due to the different cognitive/emotional mindset at time of the perception, a different mood that results.
From that it follows that mood and the emotions that result are driven partially by the pre-existing mindset at time of experiencing the mood. Since that includes potentially irrational thoughts, the mood/emotions are themselves susceptible to being "contaminated" by irrationality.
They don't have to be so, but they are almost certain to be so, because our cognitive processes are heuristic rather algorithmic in nature. Heuristics use intuition, and intuition can be irrational.
Good stuff. Actions would have to be down the road (no pun intened), though. Traveling right now is more dangerous to the public at large than any benefit I could offer one family in terms of help.
Oh for Pete's sake...
Honestly, it's just speech. When I say "thank god", I'm just using an expression.
If you wanna pick on me for that, then do you honestly believe St. Peter is on one's mind whenever he/she says, "for Pete's sake"? Of course not. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, sometimes I wonder. It's just a commonly used phrase.
And in the context of "I wish" there, that obviously means "Though I could, I'm not going to take the time and make the effort to dig up this amazing study I read years ago..." And, as common usage, I might say "I wish I had it in front of me," in a manner than means, "It would be more convenient if it were right in front of me..." I'm obviously not truly "wishing".
As you say, they're commonly used phrases, but it's a similar sentiment to your original post.We could argue that it boils down to two forces: Want and Need.
Superficially, there are no needs in and of themselves. Needs only exist relative to objectives. Needs describe the rational/logical pathway to achieve set objectives: X is needed for Y. (eg, We need flour to bake bread. We need food to survive.)
But where do these objectives come from? They are the wants, that are of emotional origin, which form without any objective purpose, so are irrational: X is wanted. (eg, I want bread. I want to survive.)
For example, to answer "are feelings rational or not?" at the superlative level, we could say that life itself is not a need. We can want to continue to live, and hold that as an objective. We then determine needs which assist that objective.
Quite often we don't state objectives when we describe needs. (eg, I need bread.), and this is where emotion and reason (the rational and irrational) get blurred and confused.
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"You're in my thoughts" or "I'm thinking of you" are usually the ones that I use.
Ohhh, talk cognition to me, baby!
(I worked for a cognitive psychologist while in college and reading your reply brought back memories.
)Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
I'll jump on the "you and your family will be in my thoughts" bandwagon.
Can i pray to the all powerful Atheismo?
Yeah, but I doubt you will ever get an answer. 
Rather than thinking of a clever way of saying the same thing, I'll just agree.
I am not shy about my faith, but I understand your quandary. I would question why you find it so easy to use religious phrases any other time, yet try so hard to not use one in this instance... something to think about."There are no atheists when you hit your thumb with a hammer."
I'd have to disagree slightly with this. I'd say that 'praying' and 'wishing' for something are essentially the same, invoking supernatural forces in an attempt to bring about a desired effect. Saying that you 'hope' for a particular result though is simply a statement of ones own feelings. There's no element of faith involved.
As to the point at hand, in the past I've used phrases like 'you are in my thoughts at this difficult time', and that seems to be appropriate.
If I wish for something, there's no Almighty or some other religious thing involved. It's just an idea one would like to see realized, doesn't matter if it's a driver's licence for blue smurfs, a cold drink right now, or that a tragedy never happened. Hope has also nothing to do with it. I hope I can finish my work in one hour and go home. What the fuck does God have to do with that?
Don't tell me an atheist never wishes or hopes. That's being miserable, not being an atheist.
Funny is some time ago I had a similar thread, in which I asked if people really mean it when they say "I pray for you" and if they actually expect an outcome from prayers.
Don't tell me an atheist never wishes or hopes. That's being miserable, not being an atheist.
Funny is some time ago I had a similar thread, in which I asked if people really mean it when they say "I pray for you" and if they actually expect an outcome from prayers.
I addressed that. It's because I'm a Cultural Christian. These are sayings. To say "thank god" has the same meaning behind it as "for Pete's sake". It is not really for the sake of Pete, and it's not really thanking god.
It's cultural, not religious, and I promise you it's nothing that requires a great deal of thought.
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I don't want to say "praying" primarily because it's a lie. I also don't want to participate in propagating the idea that prayer is "a good thing" when I don't think it is.
I'm sure you disagree with everything I've said, that's fine. Like I said, I'm not looking for a religious debate. In fact, I'm enjoying the shift to the questions about reason and emotions and plan on getting into that conversation. It's just that the "something to think about" BS gets under my skin. I think what you believe is wrong. We don't all believe in a god. We're not all in some type of denial. We don't reject anything, we're not lying to ourselves. We just don't buy the story. It really is that simple. Okay?
"There are no atheists when you hit your thumb with a hammer."
If it'll make you feel better, I'll start saying "mother fucker" instead of "goddamit"
I want and desire. How does that make me miserable? Why do other people keep telling me how I think and how I feel?
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How about "I'm so sorry to hear about your tragedy\loss\misfortune and please let me know if I can help in any way?"
When most Christians offer up prayers they are intending to ask the Almighty to send some sort of aid to the people suffering. (That aid could be anything from emotional comfort and suppression of worry to monetary aid.) It's also meant to be a way to show these poor folks that people are thinking of them and that's intended to give the victims comfort and it's an implied offer of help as well.
Of course around here we would take them food and clothing and start fundraising to help them replace their lost belongings etc. (It's the Christian thing to do!)
Maybe follow up your message with contact info for the local group that can help them in their time of need like the Red Cross or the Salvation Army or a local church. These kinds of groups are usually set up to aid families who've suffered such a tragedy.
Help start an account at a local bank for them (most banks offer such a service) and get it publicized so people might make donations in their name. (remember to contact newpapers, local shopper papers, radio stations and local cable tv offices)
Jus' Sayin'
When most Christians offer up prayers they are intending to ask the Almighty to send some sort of aid to the people suffering. (That aid could be anything from emotional comfort and suppression of worry to monetary aid.) It's also meant to be a way to show these poor folks that people are thinking of them and that's intended to give the victims comfort and it's an implied offer of help as well.
Of course around here we would take them food and clothing and start fundraising to help them replace their lost belongings etc. (It's the Christian thing to do!)
Maybe follow up your message with contact info for the local group that can help them in their time of need like the Red Cross or the Salvation Army or a local church. These kinds of groups are usually set up to aid families who've suffered such a tragedy.
Help start an account at a local bank for them (most banks offer such a service) and get it publicized so people might make donations in their name. (remember to contact newpapers, local shopper papers, radio stations and local cable tv offices)
Jus' Sayin'
It has nothing to do w/it for you, apparent. I don't know if you didn't read or didn't understand, but NONE of them have anything to do with god if there is no god. To me, for someone to say they "pray" for something is exactly the same as "wishing" or "hoping" (although there may be subtle differences, as some of explored, between wishing and hoping).
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