How to replace "prayer"?

[Clamp]

DISCLAMER: Don't mistake my intent, I am not trying to create a religious debate. Notice that "prayer" is in quotes. I'm trying to figure out how the replace the sentiment. If you don't say "nothing can replace prayer," I won't get started

For those of you who don't know me that well, I am an atheist. On the Dawkins 1-7 scale (1= there certainly is a god/7=there certainly is not), I am a 6.9, which is as atheist as you can get, since certainty would require scientific proof.

So I just found out that the house belonging to a friend's parents burned down today. Everyone got out safely, but it looks like a 100% loss, including her father's work-from-home business. So everyone is sending her these FaceBook messages "they're in our prayers" "we'll be praying..." etc.

So I wanted to post something, but I couldn't think of anything that didn't sound horrible. Obviously, I can't post anything about prayer. So what the hell do you say? Every single post had "prayer" in it. Like 30 in a row about prayer.

Any ideas about what to say that doesn't sound crummy?

"Good luck" ? No.
"Best wishes"? That's how John Belushi signed an autograph to me as a teenager. Don't think "Best wishes" or "All my best" fits.
"I'll be thinking about you" sounds more stalker/creepy that comforting.

If you say something like, "if there's anything I can do, let me know," the response is usually "just pray for us, that's all we can do".

Anyway, I just really started thinking about this today, but it's a situation that comes up all the time. Of course I don't want to be insulting, but I don't want to lie, either. Has anyone found a catch-all solution?

 

[Holdfast]

Not an atheist, but I would think sufficiently strong sentiments would be expressed by any of:

Rooting for you
Thinking of you (I don't think it sounds stalker-ish. "About you", maybe; "of you", no.)
Hoping for the best
Wishing for the best

 

[Locutus of Bored]

How is "I'll be thinking of you" or "You'll be in our thoughts" any different from "I'll be praying for you" or "You'll be in our prayers" in the "stalker/creepy" department? Obviously you'd have to be thinking of someone to include them in your prayers.

I'm sorry to question it, but (along with variants of "best wishes") you just shot down my usual responses as an atheist when someone is grieving or worried about a family member. It never occurred to me that anyone would take that as stalker-ish, since it's no different in my mind than saying you'll pray for someone.

 

[Kestra]

I would just replace "you're in my prayers" with "you're in my thoughts," because they are. Probably want to say a few more lines, but I think it's a perfectly acceptable thing to say. I do pray, but I don't often use that word in these types of circumstances.

 

[Clamp]

Rooting for you

That's a bit camp, I think.

Thinking of you (I don't think it sounds stalker-ish. "About you", maybe; "of you", no.)

Good point. "of" makes it 100x better than "about"

Hoping for the best
Wishing for the best

Yeah, but "hope" and "wish"... ugh. Those are lies, too. I don't hope and I don't wish. Hoping and wishing, to me, is the same thing as praying.

My true thoughts and feelings are, "First, the important thing is everyone is safe. I know it can be hard to accept at this moment, but things are just things. Some things we think precious, but they're just things. Life is often about overcoming challenges and we usually turn out stronger for having done so. As terrible as it feels, this isn't the worst thing that could have happened. I offer to you any support, wisdom or strength I have to give."

But that sounds cold next to, "I'll pray for you".

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I would just replace "you're in my prayers" with "you're in my thoughts," because they are. Probably want to say a few more lines, but I think it's a perfectly acceptable thing to say. I do pray, but I don't often use that word in these types of circumstances.

That's exactly how I approach it.

 

[Clamp]

I would just replace "you're in my prayers" with "you're in my thoughts," because they are. Probably want to say a few more lines, but I think it's a perfectly acceptable thing to say. I do pray, but I don't often use that word in these types of circumstances.

That's exactly how I approach it.

That seems to be the way everyone is leaning, and maybe it's some Okie-Christian holdover from my upbringing, but I think the sentiment of "prayers" and "thoughts" are seen totally differently by most Oklahoma-prayer types. Maybe I'm just putting too much thought into it.

 

[Thestral]

I would just replace "you're in my prayers" with "you're in my thoughts," because they are. Probably want to say a few more lines, but I think it's a perfectly acceptable thing to say. I do pray, but I don't often use that word in these types of circumstances.

I do pray too, but this seems perfectly appropriate.

 

[Kestra]

Yeah, but "hope" and "wish"... ugh. Those are lies, too. I don't hope and I don't wish. Hoping and wishing, to me, is the same thing as praying.

My true thoughts and feelings are, "First, the important thing is everyone is safe. I know it can be hard to accept at this moment, but things are just things. Some things we think precious, but they're just things. Life is often about overcoming challenges and we usually turn out stronger for having done so. As terrible as it feels, this isn't the worst thing that could have happened. I offer to you any support, wisdom or strength I have to give."

But that sounds cold next to, "I'll pray for you".

Honestly, it's not about you. It's about supporting those who have gone through a loss of any kind. Offer them support while staying true to your own beliefs. If you feel you cannot do that honestly, then refrain from saying anything. Practical advice has a place and time too, and if that's your strength, wait until such a time to offer your support.

I also think you're just placing too much importance on prayers here, and their significance to others. Personally I'd rather not have people tell me they are praying for me. And I say that as someone who believes in god. But if they were to tell me that they were praying for me and meant it in a kind and supportive manner, I wouldn't take offense. When you're going through something difficult, it's not really the words that matter so much, it's that feeling of warm support that washes over you. You don't need to be that articulate to offer that to someone.

 

[trampledamage]

There's nothing wrong with what you've expressed as your true thoughts and feelings - although I wouldn't say the "it's not the worst thing that could have happened" right now

It sounds like you want to keep it concrete, so why not say "Thank goodness you're all okay. Don't hesitate to let me know if there's any help you need."

 

[Nowhere Man]

I would say there is no replacement for prayer. I'm not an athiest, but you could say that,"you and your family is in my heart." or "Peace be with you." or something like that." May the force be with you." A lot of times I think people say,"I'm praying for you," but I don't think they are going home and imediately getting a prayer circle together, they just mean that they are thinking of you and hope for the situation to get better. I guess it's the difference between Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, it pretty much means the sam, just one has a religous meaning. When I say merry christmas to people, I don't mean, "only you christians enjoy the holiday season", I mean," I hope you have a good holiday season weather you are christian or not." It's just easier to say merry christmas, but lately I have been saying Happy Holidays.

 

[Clamp]

Yeah, but "hope" and "wish"... ugh. Those are lies, too. I don't hope and I don't wish. Hoping and wishing, to me, is the same thing as praying.

My true thoughts and feelings are, "First, the important thing is everyone is safe. I know it can be hard to accept at this moment, but things are just things. Some things we think precious, but they're just things. Life is often about overcoming challenges and we usually turn out stronger for having done so. As terrible as it feels, this isn't the worst thing that could have happened. I offer to you any support, wisdom or strength I have to give."

But that sounds cold next to, "I'll pray for you".

Honestly, it's not about you.

[Denny Crane] Not about me? [/Denny Crane]

(sorry, couldn't resist).

It's about supporting those who have gone through a loss of any kind. Offer them support while staying true to your own beliefs. If you feel you cannot do that honestly, then refrain from saying anything.

Yeah, you're probably right. I don't like the idea that I should be the one to have to refrain from offering condolences and/or support because I choose not to invest all my faith in the Middle Eastern Bronze Aged tribal deity that had the best warriors and therefore survived (I know that's sharp, but I'm giving my thoughts, here). It bothers me that I'm the one who has to shut up about that.

But, as you correctly say, it's not about me, and that is making it about me.

Practical advice has a place and time too, and if that's your strength, wait until such a time to offer your support.

I also think you're just placing too much importance on prayers here, and their significance to others. Personally I'd rather not have people tell me they are praying for me.

I agree on both those points. For me, it is always the time for practicality and it is never the time for wishes.

But as you say, gotta not be Denny Crane 24/7.

But if they were to tell me that they were praying for me and meant it in a kind and supportive manner, I wouldn't take offense. When you're going through something difficult, it's not really the words that matter so much, it's that feeling of warm support that washes over you. You don't need to be that articulate to offer that to someone.

Right, and I want to offer that warmth of support to, but in a way that's neither insulting to them nor dishonest to myself.

No, not about me, but I don't like being left out of the human loop because I think man created god instead of the other way around.

So maybe, like you say, I just need to sit it out, pout a bit and know that my staying shut-up is the best thing I can do at the time.

 

[Holdfast]

Rooting for you

That's a bit camp, I think.

Must be why I thought of it first.

Thinking of you (I don't think it sounds stalker-ish. "About you", maybe; "of you", no.)

Good point. "of" makes it 100x better than "about"

No problem. It's a small substitution, but I think it makes a difference.

I don't hope and I don't wish. Hoping and wishing, to me, is the same thing as praying.

Depends on the semantic tightrope one chooses to walk on, I guess. If it's the specific invocation of a deity that you object to about prayer, then hoping and wishing are very different concepts. If it's the faith-based aspect generally, then I can understand your dislike of using hope or wish. But people - even yourself - are not entirely rational creatures, and I'm far from convinced pure rationalism is a good state of affairs for humanity to exist within. If you accept happiness or sadness (or any emotional quality) into your life, then you accept irrationality into your life anyway. So hoping or wishing don't seem much of a stretch from that to me. Prayer, which specifically extends irrationality to an extraneous deity, seems qualitatively different to me. But then again, I do have a vague - albeit admittedly irrational - faith, so my perspective on these matters is skewed by that.

At the end of the day, it's about striking a balance that you can be comfortable with. I'd actually disagree with the sentiment expressed by Kestra that "it's about them, not you". It's an interaction between you and them that has to feel honest to both parties for it to be meaningful. If you don't feel you're being honest, then it's just an empty platitude with no emotional content, and I think that's a lot worse than finding a form of words that allows you to express genuine support without compromising your intellectual integrity.

 

[Kestra]

I'd actually disagree with the sentiment expressed by Kestra that "it's about them, not you". It's an interaction between you and them that has to feel honest to both parties for it to be meaningful. If you don't feel you're being honest, then it's just an empty platitude with no emotional content, and I think that's a lot worse than finding a form of words that allows you to express genuine support without compromising your intellectual integrity.

I did say that he should find a way to do so while staying true to his own beliefs. I'm actually getting a little irritated that it's such a confusing concept and I certainly didn't mean to tell ThankQ to shut up. It really shouldn't be so difficult to offer supportive words to someone without infusing them with religious meaning or going contrary to your own beliefs.

 

[Holdfast]

I'm actually getting a little irritated...

I can see that; I'll pray that you can relax.

 

[Kestra]

I'm actually getting a little irritated...

I can see that; I'll pray that you can relax.

 

[Clamp]

Depends on the semantic tightrope one chooses to walk on, I guess. If it's the specific invocation of a deity that you object to about prayer, then hoping and wishing are very different concepts. If it's the faith-based aspect generally, then I can understand your dislike of using hope or wish.

Actually, it's Door #3. If you were to assume there is no god, then "praying" "wishing" and "hoping" all accomplish the exact same thing: nothing at all. They're all just thoughts or words put out there, to nothing, that do nothing.

But people - even yourself - are not entirely rational creatures, and I'm far from convinced pure rationalism is a good state of affairs for humanity to exist within.

Thank god for that. I hope no one ever thinks or believes that, because it's not true. Want, desires, likes and dislikes are highly important. I wish I could show you the study, but there are some "Human Vulcans" out there. People who, due to birth abnormality or brain trauma, have lost their emotions. Without emotion, they can hardly function. They can't order icecream! Think about it, if you have no means of preferring one over the other, and if the fat/calorie/health--all rational aspects--are equal, how do you choose between chocolate and vanilla? We do because we like one more, or we're in the mood for this one today, or we haven't had that one in years, whatever. Without emotions to guide us, the simplest choices become nearly impossible.

If you accept happiness or sadness (or any emotional quality) into your life, then you accept irrationality into your life anyway.

I disagree w/that. Moods are not (necessarily) irrational. They're biological responses. Now, moods can certainly lead to irrational behavior, I'll give you that. But a strong rational mind can feel deeply but still make logical decisions. Some people have killed over rage or jealousy. Most of us can handle rage and jealousy without killing. There are 1,000 different levels. Some people punch a wall, throw a glass, scream into a pillow, whatever. Some can understand they're having a normal human response to a set of stimuli, ride it out, understand it sucks now but will eventually diminish--likely to nothing--and they'll get on w/their lives just fine.

Feelings aren't irrational. What we choose to do with them can be.

So hoping or wishing don't seem much of a stretch from that to me. Prayer, which specifically extends irrationality to an extraneous deity, seems qualitatively different to me. But then again, I do have a vague - albeit admittedly irrational - faith, so my perspective on these matters is skewed by that.

Right. "Prayer" can be viewed as hoping or wishing with religious ties. And like I said, if you have no religious ties, then they're all the exact same thing.

 

[Mr. B]

I might go with "Wow, that really sucks."

 

[Clamp]

I might go with "Wow, that really sucks."

Well, it has the benefit of being true, but it's not exactly the sentiment I was going for

 

[JiNX-01]

I would suggest that you tell them you are there for them. And then follow through.

Be specific. Invite them to your home for a good dinner. Get over there and help them pick through the ashes for anything they might be able to salvage. If you're in a position to do so, invite whatever number you can accommodate to stay with you. Or maybe take in their pets.

Thinking of you is a nice sentiment. But actions still speak louder than words.