How Should the Daleks be Depicted?

[The Mirrorball Man]

I love the Daleks, I think the idea still has a lot of potential and I'll probably never get tired of hearing them scream.

That being said, there are many things to do with Daleks that don't involve massive invasion or end of the world scenarios. You could tell a lot of story with just one Dalek, for example. What happens if the Doctor encounters one pepperpot who's wiping out the population of an entire world all by himself?

 

[Winterwind]

Exactly right.

Like I said earlier in this thread, one Dalek, in "Dalek" was damned menacing. Watching the Doctor and companions wipe out entire fleets for 3 of 4 season finales is like the Rolling Stones annual "last ever world tour".

Of course, that's an obvious exaggeration (about the Stones) but you get the point.

 

[The]

First off, the show needs to take a serious break from the Daleks. "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" went a long way towards making them scary again after they were rendered somewhat cheesily in "Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," but we need time off. After all, the Daleks are monsters, not characters; ergo, their dramatic power comes from suspense and ignorance, and overuse decreases their spookiness. With the Daleks, more is less and less is more.

Yes.

Secondly: They really need to do a new pain job on the Dalek models they have once they do bring them back, because they look like they're made of lightweight plastic. Seriously. The Dalek in "Dalek" looked like it was made of metal. Heavy metal at that. It looked like it weighed a ton. It was metallic and it was cold and it was alien, and it didn't bounce its eye stalk up and down when it talked and it didn't shake when it spoke.

But from "Doomsday" on, the Daleks have looked worse and worse. They've looked plastic and they've shaked and they just look lightweight. They need to look like they're metal and heavy and they need to not move every time they speak. The Dalek in "Dalek" was all the creepier for its stillness.

Could NOT agree more! One of the most impressive things I noticed when Dalek aired was how heavy-metal the Dalek looked. It looked real, and unstoppable. Ever since, they've lightened them up to the plastic standards you're talking. I think it has something to do with the constant shift towards this bright, squeaky-clean, "HD" lighting and all that. Everything on Doctor Who looks far too shiny for me right now. It looks too glitzy and glamorous. Tennant always looks like a supermodel these days, with his hair absurdly coifed just exactly. Reminds me of that show Friends. The first 4-5 years, they looked and dressed like real people. Then, once sponsors started getting attached, and it became big, all the characters suddenly looked "perfect", absolutely in-style at all times, and (obviously) each gained personal trainers. Ridiculous.

While I never dreamed I'd ever see Who with such a budget, I have to say I wouldn't mind some the darker-lit console room from Eccleston's era, a Doctor who doesn't look like he just stepped out of the metrosexual salon, and gritty, hardcore Daleks.

I'm seriously curious as to what HD broadcasting is going to do for the show...

Thirdly: No more weirdly painted Daleks. No more red or black. No more Davros, who I can't imagine being an interesting character in larger doses than he had in "Journey's End." Just plain old, evil, scary Daleks.

Those are my only real complaints.

What about all soldier-Daleks a gun-metal grey, while the superior/command Daleks stay the gold-metal from Dalek? Grey for Classic Series, Gold for current, and everyone is happy?

 

[Sci]

First off, the show needs to take a serious break from the Daleks. "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" went a long way towards making them scary again after they were rendered somewhat cheesily in "Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," but we need time off. After all, the Daleks are monsters, not characters; ergo, their dramatic power comes from suspense and ignorance, and overuse decreases their spookiness. With the Daleks, more is less and less is more.

Yes.

Secondly: They really need to do a new pain job on the Dalek models they have once they do bring them back, because they look like they're made of lightweight plastic. Seriously. The Dalek in "Dalek" looked like it was made of metal. Heavy metal at that. It looked like it weighed a ton. It was metallic and it was cold and it was alien, and it didn't bounce its eye stalk up and down when it talked and it didn't shake when it spoke.

But from "Doomsday" on, the Daleks have looked worse and worse. They've looked plastic and they've shaked and they just look lightweight. They need to look like they're metal and heavy and they need to not move every time they speak. The Dalek in "Dalek" was all the creepier for its stillness.

Could NOT agree more! One of the most impressive things I noticed when Dalek aired was how heavy-metal the Dalek looked. It looked real, and unstoppable. Ever since, they've lightened them up to the plastic standards you're talking. I think it has something to do with the constant shift towards this bright, squeaky-clean, "HD" lighting and all that. Everything on Doctor Who looks far too shiny for me right now. It looks too glitzy and glamorous. Tennant always looks like a supermodel these days, with his hair absurdly coifed just exactly. Reminds me of that show Friends. The first 4-5 years, they looked and dressed like real people. Then, once sponsors started getting attached, and it became big, all the characters suddenly looked "perfect", absolutely in-style at all times, and (obviously) each gained personal trainers. Ridiculous.

While I never dreamed I'd ever see Who with such a budget, I have to say I wouldn't mind some the darker-lit console room from Eccleston's era, a Doctor who doesn't look like he just stepped out of the metrosexual salon, and gritty, hardcore Daleks.

I'm seriously curious as to what HD broadcasting is going to do for the show...

Thirdly: No more weirdly painted Daleks. No more red or black. No more Davros, who I can't imagine being an interesting character in larger doses than he had in "Journey's End." Just plain old, evil, scary Daleks.

Those are my only real complaints.

What about all soldier-Daleks a gun-metal grey, while the superior/command Daleks stay the gold-metal from Dalek? Grey for Classic Series, Gold for current, and everyone is happy?

Hey, so long as it doesn't look like it's made of plastic and so light I could pick it up? Fine by me!

 

[tomalak301]

I kind of wish the Daleks were more three demensional. Of course who am I to criticize Doctor Who's variation of the Borg but why not add something to that. I mean the reason "Dalek" worked was because it wasn't necessarily about the Dalek facing off against the Doctor, but more along the lines of the brutal reminder of what happned in the Time War and how it effected both. We got to see a human side of the Dalek through Rose and it made for a very unique experiance.

Since then, it's been "exterminate, exterminate" and it's gotten old. What new things do the Dalek's bring. Voyager gets criticized to overusing the Borg, yet I thought they did a great job developing the culture of the borg through episodes like The Omega Directive and I'd even say Collective. We know so much that we actually start to understand them. I appreciate showing episodes dealing with Devros and the Skaro people, but most Dalek episodes so far have almost been the same. Mix it up a bit.

 

[The]

Of course who am I to criticize Doctor Who's variation of the Borg

I imagine you know this, but let's make sure we're clear here:

The Daleks debuted in 1963.

The Borg debuted in 1989.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Of course who am I to criticize Doctor Who's variation of the Borg

I imagine you know this, but let's make sure we're clear here:

The Daleks debuted in 1963.

The Borg debuted in 1989.

Besides, the Cybermen are more akin to the Borg than the Daleks. They also predated the Borg in late 1969.

 

[The]

True...

 

[tomalak301]

Of course who am I to criticize Doctor Who's variation of the Borg

I imagine you know this, but let's make sure we're clear here:

The Daleks debuted in 1963.

The Borg debuted in 1989.

Of course who am I to criticize Doctor Who's variation of the Borg

I imagine you know this, but let's make sure we're clear here:

The Daleks debuted in 1963.

The Borg debuted in 1989.

Besides, the Cybermen are more akin to the Borg than the Daleks. They also predated the Borg in late 1969.

It doesn't matter when they debuted. The comparison based on popularity still stands.

 

[Jim Steele]

^

The comparison is apt, sure. But calling the Daleks "Doctor Who's variation of the borg" falsely implies that the Borg came first.

...when in reality the Borg are little more than a shitty tired cliche, just like everything else in TNG. /rant

 

[The]

The Borg are quite obvious derivatives of the Cybermen, rather than the Daleks, IMHO.

As to your point, no offense, but I think that would be the worst way to go. Dalek was an exceptional episode. But, once you start delving too deeply into the Daleks, not only is it apparent how thin, and weak the concept has always been, but you easily run the risk (if not inevitability) of going down the "Hugh, Borg" path. And, as with Hugh, that path is filled with touchy-feely, bleeding heart emotions that shouldn't come anywhere near The Daleks. Once the Daleks become humanized, they have lost all viability as enemies.

To continue your comparison, the Borg from their first appearance ("Q Who", wasn't it?) is exactly what The Daleks should always be: one-dimensional, forces of nature, impossible to negotiate or bargain with, that have one goal in mind:

Ex-ter-mi-nate!

 

[ITL]

I re-watched "The Daleks" the other day (check out the avie!) and I was so impressed by their depiction. In their first ever story. In the second ever serial. Great stuff - so much better than so many serials in the following years.

 

[Sci]

I kind of wish the Daleks were more three demensional. Of course who am I to criticize Doctor Who's variation of the Borg but why not add something to that. I mean the reason "Dalek" worked was because it wasn't necessarily about the Dalek facing off against the Doctor, but more along the lines of the brutal reminder of what happned in the Time War and how it effected both. We got to see a human side of the Dalek through Rose and it made for a very unique experiance.

Since then, it's been "exterminate, exterminate" and it's gotten old. What new things do the Dalek's bring. Voyager gets criticized to overusing the Borg, yet I thought they did a great job developing the culture of the borg through episodes like The Omega Directive and I'd even say Collective. We know so much that we actually start to understand them. I appreciate showing episodes dealing with Devros and the Skaro people, but most Dalek episodes so far have almost been the same. Mix it up a bit.

See, I disagree with you, and here's why: The entire point of the Daleks is that they do not have their own genuine culture. They aren't individuals. They aren't characters. They're monsters. They are creatures bred with an insane belief in their own superiority and in the need to murder anything that does not meet with their standards of racial purity.

Whilst you can do the occasion "Dalek-with-a-mind-of-its-own" gimmick, such as in "Dalek," you can't do that all the time. Otherwise, you're undermining the entire point of the Daleks.

And "Dalek" did not work just because it evoked the Time War. It worked because it was a full-fledged exploration of that simple Dalek philosophy and what its logical implications are -- how such an ideology, when faced with its failure in reality, leads its believer on an existential crisis that prompts fundamental change, whilst at the same time that ideologue's greatest enemy finds himself embracing that same "extermination" mentality. It works because of the dualism -- their hatred of one-another actually causes the Dalek and the Doctor to become more like their opposite.

 

[Jax]

The Daleks should not be used for the entire Moffat reign and really should only come back for a Box Office Movie IMO. Moffat has hinted he wants to create his own aliens and big ass bad guys to rival the Daleks.

 

[tomalak301]

Whilst you can do the occasion "Dalek-with-a-mind-of-its-own" gimmick, such as in "Dalek," you can't do that all the time. Otherwise, you're undermining the entire point of the Daleks.

This is the easiest post to quote so I'll just pose this question. I understand what you all are saying, but then how do we keep that and avoid getting them so repetative. One of my major problems with the Dalek two parter from the third season was they were annoying and one-demensional. They weren't interesting in any way, and it didn't help that you had scary pigs helping them. I lost interest in the Daleks because of those two episodes, yet I kind of liked them again last season mainly because of Devros. Still, you give them an identity and you're ruining what the Daleks are. You don't, and you run the risk of making them annoying atumatons. Like you said, if you depict something or someone a certain way, you can't do it all the time. All I was saying was mixing it up a bit but I guess it's either keep depicting them the way they are, or don't use them for a long while.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Cybermen again by the way this christmas special. I feel like I've seen Daleks to last a lifetime, yet we've only seen the Cybermen in two stories.

 

[Captain Pike]

Devros

Please, it's "Davros".

 

[tomalak301]

Devros

Please, it's "Davros".

ah, sorry?

 

[ClayinCA]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Cybermen again by the way this christmas special. I feel like I've seen Daleks to last a lifetime, yet we've only seen the Cybermen in two stories.

Totally agree--and I don't think either use of the Cybermen so far has been particularly effective, so a really cracking good Cybermen story would be even more welcome.

 

[Sci]

Whilst you can do the occasion "Dalek-with-a-mind-of-its-own" gimmick, such as in "Dalek," you can't do that all the time. Otherwise, you're undermining the entire point of the Daleks.

This is the easiest post to quote so I'll just pose this question. I understand what you all are saying, but then how do we keep that and avoid getting them so repetative.

In general, you can't. Any Dalek story will tend to have a repetitive, formulaic plot. That's just life. You can spruce things up by using similar plots to explore different themes and characters, but the plots will inevitably be similar. That's part of why the Daleks should be used only very sparingly.

 

[TedShatner10]

In the recent Dalek blow out, Davros was never truly in command of the Daleks and I find it amusing that the Daleks themselves bred from his tissue samples viewed him more as an helpful oddity than their real leader.

I agree with Sci that the Daleks in S2 and 3 looked a little too lightweight and shiny, becoming a little too comical in Helen Raynor's turgid two parter. And when they are getting overused, they kinda of cheapen the abilities of the Daleks and make them seem more conventional (for example where were their personal shields in the S4 final?).

But it is good hear that Robert Shearman, the man who penned "Dalek", is coming back to NuWho in the relatively near future under Steven Moffat (so the Daleks could be brought back to basics again).