How Should the Daleks be Depicted?
- Thread starter TedShatner10
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I think they should just play them silent and evil and unrelenting. The Doctor shouldn't have quippy conversations with them he should be running from them because they are sooo evil talk is pointless. They won't reveal any part of their plan because they are silent the whole time.
The only time you realize they are there is when you are dead or can hear the death screams of their victems. Having them win from time to time would help, if the Doctor can win every time why bother.
The only time you realize they are there is when you are dead or can hear the death screams of their victems. Having them win from time to time would help, if the Doctor can win every time why bother.
In response to the topic, I would portray them like scourge...a virus. A force of nature. Like a tornado or hurricane, sweeping across the horizon, relentless, thorough, and driven by only one single, simple goal: Extermination of all life, regardless.
And that is all.
No complex master plans, or long conversations with them. Just quick, impervious, scorching death sweeping across the universe, planet-by-planet...
And that is all.
No complex master plans, or long conversations with them. Just quick, impervious, scorching death sweeping across the universe, planet-by-planet...
I've had an idea in my head which involves the Daleks exterminating inferior species in a different way: By convincing whole species to kill themselves. The Daleks create a religion centered around death and then preach it across the universe. A giant intergalactic suicide cult.
I'm sure there's a novel or an audio based on a similar idea. It is a great idea though.
RTD has killed the Daleks off not just in the Who universe but perhaps ours too. I think we've had the overload of Daleks we never knew we didn't want.
NO MORE ALTERNATE REALITY!
Or Rose, no more of either.
No complex master plans, or long conversations with them. Just quick, impervious, scorching death sweeping across the universe, planet-by-planet...
The Borg were better when they were like that. No Queen, no talking, just simple assimilation and you're all done.
To be honest with you, Irvy doesn't really know about Irvy either. It's that damned quirky N Ireland humour.
However, there is an undercurrent of discontent in sci fi fans. I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of it stems from a general belief that "if I were in charge I'd do it right". It's the sci fi equivalent of fat lazy guys sitting in their living room eating fatty food and drinking beer and shouting at the greatest athletes of our time and telling them how to kick a ball properly.
We also take things too seriously. The Doctor's meant to be broadly appealing, and a big part of that appeal is the Daleks.
However, there is an undercurrent of discontent in sci fi fans. I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of it stems from a general belief that "if I were in charge I'd do it right". It's the sci fi equivalent of fat lazy guys sitting in their living room eating fatty food and drinking beer and shouting at the greatest athletes of our time and telling them how to kick a ball properly.
We also take things too seriously. The Doctor's meant to be broadly appealing, and a big part of that appeal is the Daleks.
The Daleks are the enemy to end all enemies, when they appear they're supposed to flatten everything in their path. Have them appear too often, to end up almost completely defeated only to return en masse next season, cheapens them.
Yeah, I understand. There's a sweeping negative generalization of America and, in turn, Americans that has been quite obvious over the past eight-years. I've noticed this from many Europeans. And, quite honestly, I can see where they're coming from. Our 21st century government has done nothing but set back global relations by about a decade, really. And yes, I am well aware of the stereotypical fat, lazy American that disrespects others cultures, with an insular attitude of superiority.
However, I find it irrational to try and pigeonhold America/Americans as the reason why people are tired of the Daleks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of the posters here from the UK/Europe? Thus, why assume that it would be an American notion?
As for just the general dislike of opinionated sci-fi fans, well, sports atheletes are very accustomed to the "fat fan" yelling at them. It would seem to come with the territory of any passionate past-time. And, if it weren't for some of those opinionated fans, we certainly wouldn't have the current Doctor Who series.
All in all, I don't mind people taking potshots at America. There's a lot I don't currently like about my country. But, I also don't think it's correct to arbitrarily just lump blame or complaint on the shoulders of an entire populace, country, or viewing demographic.
Just my two cents, of course...
Agreed. I don't think it's that people are tired of the Daleks. They're just tired of the lack of impact that each appearance seems to bring. I was just thinking about how utterly powerful "Dalek" was in the first season. It was so moving, and real. It was, in my opinion, the best Dalek story ever written. Now, as in the finale, the only threat I felt was from Davros...not the Daleks. That's just me, though...
And to blame Americans for any failings in a BRITISH TELEVISION SHOW is just plain stupid. DW's never been more then a small, cult niche here and that includes the new show. Because I wish Americans were this vocal demographic Irvy claims. Because it would mean lots of people were actually watching it here.
Yeah, I understand. There's a sweeping negative generalization of America and, in turn, Americans that has been quite obvious over the past eight-years. I've noticed this from many Europeans. And, quite honestly, I can see where they're coming from. Our 21st century government has done nothing but set back global relations by about a decade, really. And yes, I am well aware of the stereotypical fat, lazy American that disrespects others cultures, with an insular attitude of superiority.
However, I find it irrational to try and pigeonhold America/Americans as the reason why people are tired of the Daleks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of the posters here from the UK/Europe? Thus, why assume that it would be an American notion?
As for just the general dislike of opinionated sci-fi fans, well, sports atheletes are very accustomed to the "fat fan" yelling at them. It would seem to come with the territory of any passionate past-time. And, if it weren't for some of those opinionated fans, we certainly wouldn't have the current Doctor Who series.
All in all, I don't mind people taking potshots at America. There's a lot I don't currently like about my country. But, I also don't think it's correct to arbitrarily just lump blame or complaint on the shoulders of an entire populace, country, or viewing demographic.
Just my two cents, of course...
Oh, I agree. The Daleks will never be eliminated completely. In the Spider-Man comics, during the Clone Saga in the 1990s, they killed off Dr. Octopus "for good." They even showed his body, to assure everyone that he was "really dead." Nevertheless, that still didn't last. Otto Octavius was back from the dead within a few years. The Daleks are the same way.
But man I just love seeing tin cans shouting at each other for no reason
Me too! "Exterminate the Doc-tor!" "I obey!"
I'd like the Daleks to be depicted in a similar way to as being genius creatures that don't require overwhelming numbers to win.
They should also have dialogue. The major problem I had with 80's Daleks is that they shouted Exterminate all the time and very little else and 21st century Daleks have started to come increasingly close to that. The more chilling 60's Daleks on the other hand had some very good lines, something which they've managed to do in the Dalek Empire audio series. of course that could just be the writer, since RTD's Daleks seem to be only ones who have a lack of interesting dialogue.
They should be shown mostly in small numbers, a small taskforce of a new reborn yet growing Dalek empire, not necessarily peforming a mission of conquest.
Their defeat shouldn't seem like another convience (like Rose becomes super Rose, the Doctor open up a magic hole that sucks the Daleks into it, Donna becomes super half time lord). Give the Doctor a number of Daleks that would still cause him to sweat but not require some sort of magic plot device to stop them.
It's weird but that's something I would really like to see.
They should also have dialogue. The major problem I had with 80's Daleks is that they shouted Exterminate all the time and very little else and 21st century Daleks have started to come increasingly close to that. The more chilling 60's Daleks on the other hand had some very good lines, something which they've managed to do in the Dalek Empire audio series. of course that could just be the writer, since RTD's Daleks seem to be only ones who have a lack of interesting dialogue.
They should be shown mostly in small numbers, a small taskforce of a new reborn yet growing Dalek empire, not necessarily peforming a mission of conquest.
Their defeat shouldn't seem like another convience (like Rose becomes super Rose, the Doctor open up a magic hole that sucks the Daleks into it, Donna becomes super half time lord). Give the Doctor a number of Daleks that would still cause him to sweat but not require some sort of magic plot device to stop them.
Except of course for hot female alternate reality Doctors.
It's weird but that's something I would really like to see.
First off, the show needs to take a serious break from the Daleks. "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" went a long way towards making them scary again after they were rendered somewhat cheesily in "Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," but we need time off. After all, the Daleks are monsters, not characters; ergo, their dramatic power comes from suspense and ignorance, and overuse decreases their spookiness. With the Daleks, more is less and less is more.
Secondly: They really need to do a new pain job on the Dalek models they have once they do bring them back, because they look like they're made of lightweight plastic. Seriously. The Dalek in "Dalek" looked like it was made of metal. Heavy metal at that. It looked like it weighed a ton. It was metallic and it was cold and it was alien, and it didn't bounce its eye stalk up and down when it talked and it didn't shake when it spoke.
But from "Doomsday" on, the Daleks have looked worse and worse. They've looked plastic and they've shaked and they just look lightweight. They need to look like they're metal and heavy and they need to not move every time they speak. The Dalek in "Dalek" was all the creepier for its stillness.
Thirdly: No more weirdly painted Daleks. No more red or black. No more Davros, who I can't imagine being an interesting character in larger doses than he had in "Journey's End." Just plain old, evil, scary Daleks.
Those are my only real complaints.
Secondly: They really need to do a new pain job on the Dalek models they have once they do bring them back, because they look like they're made of lightweight plastic. Seriously. The Dalek in "Dalek" looked like it was made of metal. Heavy metal at that. It looked like it weighed a ton. It was metallic and it was cold and it was alien, and it didn't bounce its eye stalk up and down when it talked and it didn't shake when it spoke.
But from "Doomsday" on, the Daleks have looked worse and worse. They've looked plastic and they've shaked and they just look lightweight. They need to look like they're metal and heavy and they need to not move every time they speak. The Dalek in "Dalek" was all the creepier for its stillness.
Thirdly: No more weirdly painted Daleks. No more red or black. No more Davros, who I can't imagine being an interesting character in larger doses than he had in "Journey's End." Just plain old, evil, scary Daleks.
Those are my only real complaints.
I agree, Sci. Correct on all points, IMO.
Also, the resolutions need to be better. Let's see...
Season 1: SuperRose waves her hand and they go away.
Season 2: A Big Switch is pulled and they go away.
Season 3: Can't remember. I've successfully blanked out that pile of shite.
Season 4: A Few Important Switches get pressed and they go away.
So there.
Also, the resolutions need to be better. Let's see...
Season 1: SuperRose waves her hand and they go away.
Season 2: A Big Switch is pulled and they go away.
Season 3: Can't remember. I've successfully blanked out that pile of shite.
Season 4: A Few Important Switches get pressed and they go away.
So there.
You should listen to the Big Finish plays which featured him, particularly "Davros" and the I, Davros mini-series. They go a long, long way to making him a really fascinating character, and I for one wouldn't mind seeing the television series do something along the lines of "Davros," in which the Daleks didn't appear at all. It was much more a character study between Davros and the Doctor, and as I said, very effective.
As for the Daleks, yeah, could we for once not have a Dalek story that ends with another faux-extermination of the entire Dalek race? Off the top of my head, that's already been done three times in the new series and twice in the original (and no one's bettered The Evil of the Daleks yet for destroying Daleks, in my opinion).
Re: Sci - I disagree. I think the technical side of things, i.e. the way the Daleks look and sound, has been pretty much flawless where the new series of Doctor Who is concerned. They look fantastic imo, and Nicholas Briggs is the greatest voice the Daleks have ever had.
But where I feel they have been let down most assuredly is in the writing. Practically all the Dalek stories since Dalek have misused them (although they still have some good lines in Doomsday and The Stolen Earth/Journey's End).
And I think we need to see a Black Dalek/Dalek Supreme every now and again - a command Dalek who is more cunning and expressive than it's minions. Even a Dalek Emperor would be cool, but they nuked him on his first outing so they'd have to put in a new back-story for any new appearance.
The writers should also have a listen to what Nicholas Briggs has done in the Dalek Empire series of audios. Although he often paints them on an epic scale, he also makes them rather interesting and multifaceted, and they get some great lines.They are cunning, supremely patient, and manipulative. They are also the "force of nature" referred to above. He evokes Terry Nation's feelings of paranoia or dread as well as their metaphorical nature as symbols of fascism, or Whitaker's use of people ignorant to the Dalek's nature digging their own graves by trusting something we, the audience, know to be pure evil. He uses elements from their past history with the show that the new series writers haven't touched upon, like Robomen or Varga Plants. Seriously, those pigmen should have been robomen, it would have made for an altogether darker experience.
He writes them intelligently. And that's something you really can't afford not to do as a writer of them.
But where I feel they have been let down most assuredly is in the writing. Practically all the Dalek stories since Dalek have misused them (although they still have some good lines in Doomsday and The Stolen Earth/Journey's End).
And I think we need to see a Black Dalek/Dalek Supreme every now and again - a command Dalek who is more cunning and expressive than it's minions. Even a Dalek Emperor would be cool, but they nuked him on his first outing so they'd have to put in a new back-story for any new appearance.
The writers should also have a listen to what Nicholas Briggs has done in the Dalek Empire series of audios. Although he often paints them on an epic scale, he also makes them rather interesting and multifaceted, and they get some great lines.They are cunning, supremely patient, and manipulative. They are also the "force of nature" referred to above. He evokes Terry Nation's feelings of paranoia or dread as well as their metaphorical nature as symbols of fascism, or Whitaker's use of people ignorant to the Dalek's nature digging their own graves by trusting something we, the audience, know to be pure evil. He uses elements from their past history with the show that the new series writers haven't touched upon, like Robomen or Varga Plants. Seriously, those pigmen should have been robomen, it would have made for an altogether darker experience.
He writes them intelligently. And that's something you really can't afford not to do as a writer of them.
The new series introduced some interesting ideas with the cult of Skaro - the Dalek saying "if we are superior, how come we always lose" and the insane Dalek Caan deciding the Daleks were wrong spring to mind (though you could argue that the Cult Daleks were all insane by Dalek standards).
I liked the stuff about the grey Daleks at odds with the white Daleks in some of the original series - it also implied there was more to them just a desire to kill everything non-Dalek.
It might be interesting to see something more along these lines in future.
I liked the stuff about the grey Daleks at odds with the white Daleks in some of the original series - it also implied there was more to them just a desire to kill everything non-Dalek.
It might be interesting to see something more along these lines in future.
