How popular was "Space Seed" before ST2 came out?
- Thread starter Amasov
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It was Khan's big flunky who did the slapping . . .
While we're on the subject of using actual characters from TOS in the movies, one thing I always thought was a missed opportunity was not using Kor in TUC in General Chang's role. It would have been full circle that the Klingon villain of the piece was also the first Klingon we ever met from TOS.
You know, that would have been nice . . . .
As fond as I am of John Colicos, I think the studio would've much rather had a bigger name like Christopher Plummer as the bad guy.
Besides, if Kor had been the baddie in TUC, he wouldn't have survived to come back in DS9.
Besides, if Kor had been the baddie in TUC, he wouldn't have survived to come back in DS9.
Oh, definitely. And one certainly can't fault Plummer's performance.
But I can see the appeal of bringing things full circle as far as the TOS Klingons are concerned . . . .
After Harve Bennett's "ST III: Return to Genesis" script premise got leaked and bootlegged - and then the film itself came out to reveal that "Return to Genesis" wasn't just some fan's bizarre fantasy - fans were eagerly hoping something similar might happen with ST IV.
What did start doing the rounds, in the next few years, was a bootlegged (but phony) film premise, "ST IV: The Trial of James T. Kirk" by John Peel (a guy who seemed a nobody to most ST fans, but had "Doctor Who" connections, wrote for UK SF media magazines - and would eventually sell material to Pocket for the ST line). The return of Kor was a major part of the "kitchen sink" storyline Peel presented in the premise, and it did create an air of expectation that John Colicos might turn up in the real ST IV. Instead we got John Shuck as the Klingon ambassador (which the novelization named Kamarag).
It was great fun for me first time through. I hadn't seen the episode in ages, and Montalban's makeup on the poster as well as his Fantasy Island fame at the time put off thinking of 'Space Seed' altogether until Chekov saw the Botany Bay ship insignia. I felt entirely in Chekov's shoes at that scene.
AGREED
Space Seed was always one of my favorite episodes, largely due to Montalban's subtle intellectual Khan. One of my favorite scenes in all of Trek is the dinner scene where Spock grills Khan until he slips and admits his role in the Eugenics Wars, brilliantly edited with the bass "sting" in the soundtrack and Monltalban's realization showing in his gaze around the table.
However, it was never an "iconic" episode that the casual viewer would remember.
On the one hand, it was odd for Bennett to choose "Space Seed" as a basis for II rather than a known Klingon character, Mudd, or the Tribbles, but on the other hand, it was a brilliant move. Only Kor was a more charismatic foil for Kirk than Khan, and Montalban was a better-known actor than Colicos. In fact, Montalban is much more charismatic than Shatner in the episode.
Although I loved II from the first time I saw it to today, my only regret is that Khan was changed (by circumstances, mostly) from a subtle schemer to an over-the-top moustache-twirler.
Doug
However, it was never an "iconic" episode that the casual viewer would remember.
On the one hand, it was odd for Bennett to choose "Space Seed" as a basis for II rather than a known Klingon character, Mudd, or the Tribbles, but on the other hand, it was a brilliant move. Only Kor was a more charismatic foil for Kirk than Khan, and Montalban was a better-known actor than Colicos. In fact, Montalban is much more charismatic than Shatner in the episode.
Although I loved II from the first time I saw it to today, my only regret is that Khan was changed (by circumstances, mostly) from a subtle schemer to an over-the-top moustache-twirler.
Doug
He wasn't an over-the-top moustache-twirler. He was a person who suffered a lot and became obsessed for vengeance because of it. There is a difference.
Hence, the Moby Dick references through out the movie.
Just because Khan had reasons for changing into a ragged, scenery-chewing, vengeance-obsessed madman, that doesn't mean it isn't a major step down from the debonair, cunning Napoleon type that he was originally.
Actually, upon renewed viewing, Montalban holds back quite a bit through most of his performance. It makes him all the more frightening. The extent to which he's in control in the space slug scene is masterful, and the exhausted, satisfied, post-coital Khan of the infamous KHAAAAN scene is really worth a closer look.
I was just a young bugger at the time, so I didn't have a lot of connections with other fans or fanzines and the like. Space Seed was an average episode, one that I never thought was all that great. Without Montalban, it's a not much of an episode; 20th century super-chauvinist is thawed out and wows a 23rd century woman who likes to be manhandled. Because of her sappiness, she helps him take over the ship. Since she's wishy washy, she betrays Khan to save Kirk who then winds it up in a poorly shot fistfight in engineering.
Obviously my biggest gripe is with McGivers. There's a hint of her being dissatisfied with her life; she's annoyed she can't work on her painting when called to duty by Kirk, a captain who can't give enough of a shit about her to learn her name, and who publicly disses her as someone who doesn't do much work. ("here's a chance for that historian to do something for a change, what's her name - Mick-givvers?"). She's obviously not a go-getter. Maybe she joined the serivce to be with someone but he ditched her. Anyway, that's just fanwank and this all this sounds a lot more interesting than it plays. After this set up, she's easily distracted by Khan's pecs when she should be doing her job. Other than that, she's just annoying, really. Had they tackled this a little more realistically and in more detail, it could have worked a lot better. She just sells out WAY too easily.
High point: Khan decking the guard outside his room and sending him flying. Funny how Khan gets a uniform. Also, probably the best shot of Uhura in the series is when she's on the floor unconscious in the beginning of act 4. Great curves, awesome legs. Nicely done, Nichelle.
Once Trek 2 came out, my local station played up the Khan aspect and ran Space Seed a few times. Since I never turned down an opportunity to watch Star Trek, I was happy, even if the episode itself was "meh."
Obviously my biggest gripe is with McGivers. There's a hint of her being dissatisfied with her life; she's annoyed she can't work on her painting when called to duty by Kirk, a captain who can't give enough of a shit about her to learn her name, and who publicly disses her as someone who doesn't do much work. ("here's a chance for that historian to do something for a change, what's her name - Mick-givvers?"). She's obviously not a go-getter. Maybe she joined the serivce to be with someone but he ditched her. Anyway, that's just fanwank and this all this sounds a lot more interesting than it plays. After this set up, she's easily distracted by Khan's pecs when she should be doing her job. Other than that, she's just annoying, really. Had they tackled this a little more realistically and in more detail, it could have worked a lot better. She just sells out WAY too easily.
High point: Khan decking the guard outside his room and sending him flying. Funny how Khan gets a uniform. Also, probably the best shot of Uhura in the series is when she's on the floor unconscious in the beginning of act 4. Great curves, awesome legs. Nicely done, Nichelle.
Once Trek 2 came out, my local station played up the Khan aspect and ran Space Seed a few times. Since I never turned down an opportunity to watch Star Trek, I was happy, even if the episode itself was "meh."
On opening night, when Chekov's eel slides out of his ear, someone in the audience muttered, "Couldn't find his brain..."
On the other hand, I had never seen Space Seed when I first saw TWOK when it came out, but wasn't confused at all. The movie explained pretty clearly who he was and why he wanted to kill Kirk.
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