How many shuttlecraft did the Enterprise have?

[Albertese]

... I tend to think of "shuttle bay" as a TNG-era term, so I usually call it it the "landing bay" or "hangar deck" or combination thereof.

Not sure what the parking garage is officially called, although I'm guessing I wouldn't get away with "parking garage."

I must rescind my earlier statements. I went through the Chakoteya transcripts and found no references to "flight deck" or "Shuttle bay." Or even "landing bay," though I may have overlooked something so please correct me if I'm wrong. I seem to recall maybe some on set signage that said "FLIGHT DECK," but I can't recall where exactly, or if I just dreamed it up.

Here's a summary of my findings, in stardate order, cause that's how I roll.

"THE MENAGERIE, PART I"
KIRK [OC]: Store our shuttlecraft on the hangar deck, Mister Scott. Beam us directly aboard.
SCOTT: All right, Captain. Locked on to you.


"JOURNEY TO BABEL"
CHEKOV [OC]: Shuttlecraft approaching with Ambassador Sarek's party. Estimate arrival one minute.*
KIRK: Bring them aboard, Mister Chekov.*
CHEKOV [OC]: Standby to recover shuttlecraft. Honor guard to the hangar deck.


"THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE"
SULU: Mister Spock, someone's opening the shuttlecraft bay doors.*
SPOCK: Shut them, Mister Sulu.*
SULU: It's too late, sir.


"THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME"
MCCOY: Don't be so smart, Spock. You botched the acetylcholine test.*
KIRK: Later, later, later. Bring the shuttlecraft aboard, Mister Scott.*
SCOTT: Aye, sir.*
KYLE: Prepare to receive shuttlecraft. Received shuttlecraft. Hangar doors closed. Hangar deck pressurizing.*


"MUDD'S PASSION"
AREX: Internal security, Captain.*
KIRK: Put it on screen.*
AREX: Shuttlecraft bay.*


"ONCE UPON A PLANET"
M'RESS: Emergency rescue party is aboard the shuttlecraft, Mister Scott. All hatches secured.*
SCOTT: Very well. Open hangar doors.*
AREX: Aye, sir.*


"WINK OF AN EYE"
SULU: Captain, there's some trouble on the hangar deck. The controls are frozen.*
KIRK: Have repair crews been assigned?*
SULU: Yes, sir.*


"LET THAT BE YOUR LAST BATTLEFIELD"
SPOCK: Captain, there is one living creature aboard. Humanoid. He is either injured or ill. His craft shows internal atmospheric leakage. The creature may be suffocating.*
KIRK: Lieutenant Sulu, activate tractor beams.*
SULU: Tractor beams activated. We have it, sir.*
KIRK: Prepare to bring it aboard the hangar deck.*
SULU: Aye, sir.*
KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, send a security team to the pressure doors on the hangar deck.*
UHURA: Aye, sir.*
KIRK: Mister Spock, come with me. Scotty.*
(and after the shuttlecraft is recovered)
SULU [OC]: Bridge to Captain Kirk.*
KIRK: Kirk here.*
SULU [OC]: Hangar doors closed, and hangar deck is pressurizing.*
KIRK: Acknowledged.*


"THE OMEGA GLORY"
KIRK: What about the shuttlecraft?*
GALLOWAY [OC]: Galloway on the hangar deck, sir. All four of the craft are still here. If they left, they didn't leave that way.*
KIRK: Doctor McCoy and I are going to the Bridge. Meet us there.

You can see, with two exceptions of using "Shuttlecraft Bay" almost all references to the facility is question are pretty consistently "Hangar Deck."

I learned something new today.

--Alex

 

[Greg Cox]

... I tend to think of "shuttle bay" as a TNG-era term, so I usually call it it the "landing bay" or "hangar deck" or combination thereof.

Not sure what the parking garage is officially called, although I'm guessing I wouldn't get away with "parking garage."

I must rescind my earlier statements. I went through the Chakoteya transcripts and found no references to "flight deck" or "Shuttle bay." Or even "landing bay," though I may have overlooked something so please correct me if I'm wrong. I seem to recall maybe some on set signage that said "FLIGHT DECK," but I can't recall where exactly, or if I just dreamed it up.

Here's a summary of my findings, in stardate order, cause that's how I roll.

"THE MENAGERIE, PART I"
KIRK [OC]: Store our shuttlecraft on the hangar deck, Mister Scott. Beam us directly aboard.
SCOTT: All right, Captain. Locked on to you.


"JOURNEY TO BABEL"
CHEKOV [OC]: Shuttlecraft approaching with Ambassador Sarek's party. Estimate arrival one minute.*
KIRK: Bring them aboard, Mister Chekov.*
CHEKOV [OC]: Standby to recover shuttlecraft. Honor guard to the hangar deck.


"THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE"
SULU: Mister Spock, someone's opening the shuttlecraft bay doors.*
SPOCK: Shut them, Mister Sulu.*
SULU: It's too late, sir.


"THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME"
MCCOY: Don't be so smart, Spock. You botched the acetylcholine test.*
KIRK: Later, later, later. Bring the shuttlecraft aboard, Mister Scott.*
SCOTT: Aye, sir.*
KYLE: Prepare to receive shuttlecraft. Received shuttlecraft. Hangar doors closed. Hangar deck pressurizing.*


"MUDD'S PASSION"
AREX: Internal security, Captain.*
KIRK: Put it on screen.*
AREX: Shuttlecraft bay.*


"ONCE UPON A PLANET"
M'RESS: Emergency rescue party is aboard the shuttlecraft, Mister Scott. All hatches secured.*
SCOTT: Very well. Open hangar doors.*
AREX: Aye, sir.*


"WINK OF AN EYE"
SULU: Captain, there's some trouble on the hangar deck. The controls are frozen.*
KIRK: Have repair crews been assigned?*
SULU: Yes, sir.*


"LET THAT BE YOUR LAST BATTLEFIELD"
SPOCK: Captain, there is one living creature aboard. Humanoid. He is either injured or ill. His craft shows internal atmospheric leakage. The creature may be suffocating.*
KIRK: Lieutenant Sulu, activate tractor beams.*
SULU: Tractor beams activated. We have it, sir.*
KIRK: Prepare to bring it aboard the hangar deck.*
SULU: Aye, sir.*
KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, send a security team to the pressure doors on the hangar deck.*
UHURA: Aye, sir.*
KIRK: Mister Spock, come with me. Scotty.*
(and after the shuttlecraft is recovered)
SULU [OC]: Bridge to Captain Kirk.*
KIRK: Kirk here.*
SULU [OC]: Hangar doors closed, and hangar deck is pressurizing.*
KIRK: Acknowledged.*


"THE OMEGA GLORY"
KIRK: What about the shuttlecraft?*
GALLOWAY [OC]: Galloway on the hangar deck, sir. All four of the craft are still here. If they left, they didn't leave that way.*
KIRK: Doctor McCoy and I are going to the Bridge. Meet us there.

You can see, with two exceptions of using "Shuttlecraft Bay" almost all references to the facility is question are pretty consistently "Hangar Deck."

I learned something new today.

--Alex

Interesting. And I note that one of those "shuttlecraft bay" references comes from TAS, so the term was only actually used once on the original series. (Does this mean Norman Spinrad kinda, sorta coined the term "shuttle bay"?)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Some addenda:

"The Conscience of the King"
KIRK: This is the observation deck. That's the flight deck down there with the shuttle craft.

"Turnabout Intruder"
KIRK: Lieutenant Lysa, inform all sectors of my decision. Have each section send a representative to the place of execution on the hangar deck. Mister Chekov, how far to the Benecia Colony?

"The Survivor"
CARTER: I've been down to examine my ship. They stowed it in the shuttlebay.
[...]
SULU: Hangar doors on the shuttlecraft deck are opening, sir. The Vendorian must be trying to escape.

 

[Timo]

You can see, with two exceptions of using "Shuttlecraft Bay" almost all references to the facility is question are pretty consistently "Hangar Deck."

Conversely, all "Shuttlecraft Bay" or "Flight Deck" or "Shuttlecraft Deck" references could plausibly be for the topside facility that opens directly to space, while all "Hangar" references could plausibly be for the facility below that, the one where the landed shuttlecraft are taken for processing and for passenger ingress/egress.

This division to two distinct facilities would be especially appropriate in explaining the expression "hangar doors on the shuttlecraft deck", specifying the inner rather than the outer doors of the latter facility...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Albertese]

...Conversely, all "Shuttlecraft Bay" or "Flight Deck" or "Shuttlecraft Deck" references could plausibly be for the topside facility that opens directly to space, while all "Hangar" references could plausibly be for the facility below that, the one where the landed shuttlecraft are taken for processing and for passenger ingress/egress.

This division to two distinct facilities would be especially appropriate in explaining the expression "hangar doors on the shuttlecraft deck", specifying the inner rather than the outer doors of the latter facility...

Timo Saloniemi

Perhaps, though it would seem to me that the area getting pressurized would be the upper portion with the clamshell doors that open to space, rather than the lower storage/maintenance area.

On the other hand, perhaps the flight deck area is normally kept depressurized and the "airlock" is really the lower area and all boarding/deboarding happens there. Crewmen on the flight deck would need to wear EVA suits for most operations on the flight deck, which wouldn't be pressurized except for bigger projects where it was more practical for lots of crew to be working in there.

Or, another idea, perhaps the hangar deck is on the same level as the flight deck, just forward of it in the area popularly inhabited by Engineering. If we push Engineering up a level or two (to a position closer to where it will be in the TMP refit) then the shuttle facilities could extend much farther forward than expected, and the elevator is down to a separate maintenance section rather than a storage section. I'm not sure I like this idea more than the traditional view, I'm just throwing it out there.

Also, CorporalCaptain, thanks for the addenda. I had totally forgotten about "The conscience of the King." And it looks like "shutlebay" does go at least as far back as TAS.

--Alex

 

[Warped9]

Two things of note.

Firstly recall that technical references refer to the turntable/elevator. No, it's never said onscreen, but from the beginning the intent seems pretty clear: the shuttlecraft facilities function roughly similar to those of an aircraft carrier. The craft (or most of them) are kept below while one could remain above ready to launch on short notice. And when you look at MJ's drawings both for TOS and for Phase II as well as FJ's blueprints (building on MJ's thinking) thats the general layout they take.

Secondy, regarding Main Engineering. If you look at screencaps of Main Engineering in some shots you can see what look like structural members on the ceiling. It could be interpreted as ME being located near or at the upper part of the secondary hull just forward of the support pylons. The question unanswered is whether MJ intended the set to give viers that impression or not. ME could still be nearer the centre of the support hull and still have that nicely detailed ceiling.

I recall playing with this in conversation with MGagen when I was building my model. Moving ME upward to the top of the secondary hull might free up space for an access corridor and door set in the centre of the flight deck's forward bulkhead. In that case then the familiar view we see of the shuttlecraft being disembarked might make more sense. At that door looking aft you'd be on the ship's centreline and the landed shuttlecraft could be rotated at right angle to the centreline just the way we see it in those scenes. The grey wall seen beyond the shuttlecraft might just be a cheap way of suggesting the big grey clamshell doors further aft even though there's no more specific detail to indicate that. They probably thought the simple setup would serve its purpose on the CRT televisions of the day and no one would ever question it.

 

[Timo]

Arguably, the hangar could have a smaller volume than the landing area, hence would be easier to pressurize. Why is that landing area so big? TOS-R shows that landing is not a precise art, so there we have one reason already. And nonstandard craft might need to be taken aboard yet not all the way (as in "The Survivor").

perhaps the hangar deck is on the same level as the flight deck

Definitely possible - especially if the TMP refit just removed some previously solid walls, instead of actually opening up new interior spaces or relocating functions. By the same token, there could be additional facilities below. Why change that which already works, in a refit supposedly mainly intended to provide new warp and impulse engines and perhaps some new guns?

A pair of square elevators at the TMP positions would certainly be attractive for TOS as well. The turntable might elevate, or then not (it's a bit small for the task for any but the TOS-specific shuttle, and TAS shows the facility isn't exclusively dedicated to that type, or even to Starfleet craft). Heck, it might not even be a turntable - shuttles are definitely capable of hovering and rotating all on their own.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

TOS-R shows that landing is not a precise art...

Timo Saloniemi

Which was ridiculous on the face of it. The way it was shown originally made perfect sense with just a little thought. Why risk trying to manually pilot a craft throught a relatively small opening when all the launching and landing could be done much more safely on automatic in tandem with a tractor beam?

It's even backed up onscreen in TFF when Kirk suggests Sulu will land the shuttlecraft manually, to which Sulu looks rather caught off guard. The implication being that it's almost never done that way.

 

[Timo]

Might hold true for TOS(-R) as well. The most "dynamic" launch is an illegal one, by Decker...

But if a pilot can't manually fly the craft with accuracy, there's little point in sending it out, as it has to land in the confines of a very small "outdoors" set anyway, dodging plywood cliffs, styrofoam rocks and aluminum piping trees. Extreme precision is implied, without external aids. Not so extreme that a few extra meters left and right of the landing target circle wouldn't be welcome, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Might hold true for TOS(-R) as well. The most "dynamic" launch is an illegal one, by Decker...

But if a pilot can't manually fly the craft with accuracy, there's little point in sending it out, as it has to land in the confines of a very small "outdoors" set anyway, dodging plywood cliffs, styrofoam rocks and aluminum piping trees. Extreme precision is implied, without external aids. Not so extreme that a few extra meters left and right of the landing target circle wouldn't be welcome, though.

Timo Saloniemi

No one said the pilot couldn't fly it maually, but that it wouldn't normally be done that way. Indeed given always advancing computer systems we already have a lot of things can be done automatically with little input from the pilot. We now have cars that can park themselves even though the driver should be able to do it themselves. In some cases though the self-parking aid could be of help if the driver is a senior and can't turn easily in their seat to be really aware of how much space they have to spare around their vehicle. In other cases like with a van or SUV the self-parking aid could also be of value.

When Decker steals the shuttlecraft, assuming one is already on the flight deck, he might only have to activate the sequence that depressurizes the bay and opens the bay doors and engage the shuttlecraft's launch sequence. Voila!--the craft launches itself and/or the bay's tractor beam guides the craft off and out of the deck.

He's not stealing a biplane, but a highly sophisticated FTL capable spacecraft. He probably only has to input the most basic commands and the onboard systems do the rest, similarly to how modern fighter jets operate.

 

[Timo]

Conversely, though, a non-primitive autopilot could do entries and exits that aren't inflexible straight-line ones - and might not bother to do a straight line even when there's no pressing reason to take a more complex course.

Even a tractor beam wouldn't be restricted to a single acceptable approach path, but could grab shuttles on a variety of approach vectors and pull them in smoothly, minding various factors it can afford to, such as passenger comfort or even flightpath aesthetics...

Ultimately, what is won if the operations at the starship end happen under different rules from the operations at the planet end? The shuttlebay can be made narrower? But then one loses the manual backup option. So "imprecise" (or, rather, "freeform") shuttlebay ops might still be a factor in bay dimensions, even if the actual size-determining factor is something more solid like the need to accommodate larger craft on occasion. Or, say, to load and offload the craft, to cope with emergencies, or to use the bay for some secondary purpose (such as flashy executions of top officers).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

I seem to recall maybe some on set signage that said "FLIGHT DECK," but I can't recall where exactly, or if I just dreamed it up.

There is obvious signage in Journey to Babel, and Doomsday Machine, but the signs says Hanger Deck.

And it does say "Hanger," and never Hangar.

 

[Warped9]

The launching and landing of the shuttlecraft always looked like a believable operation in TOS. In TOS-R it looks like a cartoon.

 

[Phantom]

... I tend to think of "shuttle bay" as a TNG-era term, so I usually call it it the "landing bay" or "hangar deck" or combination thereof.

Not sure what the parking garage is officially called, although I'm guessing I wouldn't get away with "parking garage."

I must rescind my earlier statements. I went through the Chakoteya transcripts and found no references to "flight deck" or "Shuttle bay." Or even "landing bay," though I may have overlooked something so please correct me if I'm wrong. I seem to recall maybe some on set signage that said "FLIGHT DECK," but I can't recall where exactly, or if I just dreamed it up.

Here's a summary of my findings, in stardate order, cause that's how I roll.

"THE MENAGERIE, PART I"
KIRK [OC]: Store our shuttlecraft on the hangar deck, Mister Scott. Beam us directly aboard.
SCOTT: All right, Captain. Locked on to you.


"JOURNEY TO BABEL"
CHEKOV [OC]: Shuttlecraft approaching with Ambassador Sarek's party. Estimate arrival one minute.*
KIRK: Bring them aboard, Mister Chekov.*
CHEKOV [OC]: Standby to recover shuttlecraft. Honor guard to the hangar deck.


"THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE"
SULU: Mister Spock, someone's opening the shuttlecraft bay doors.*
SPOCK: Shut them, Mister Sulu.*
SULU: It's too late, sir.


"THE IMMUNITY SYNDROME"
MCCOY: Don't be so smart, Spock. You botched the acetylcholine test.*
KIRK: Later, later, later. Bring the shuttlecraft aboard, Mister Scott.*
SCOTT: Aye, sir.*
KYLE: Prepare to receive shuttlecraft. Received shuttlecraft. Hangar doors closed. Hangar deck pressurizing.*


"MUDD'S PASSION"
AREX: Internal security, Captain.*
KIRK: Put it on screen.*
AREX: Shuttlecraft bay.*


"ONCE UPON A PLANET"
M'RESS: Emergency rescue party is aboard the shuttlecraft, Mister Scott. All hatches secured.*
SCOTT: Very well. Open hangar doors.*
AREX: Aye, sir.*


"WINK OF AN EYE"
SULU: Captain, there's some trouble on the hangar deck. The controls are frozen.*
KIRK: Have repair crews been assigned?*
SULU: Yes, sir.*


"LET THAT BE YOUR LAST BATTLEFIELD"
SPOCK: Captain, there is one living creature aboard. Humanoid. He is either injured or ill. His craft shows internal atmospheric leakage. The creature may be suffocating.*
KIRK: Lieutenant Sulu, activate tractor beams.*
SULU: Tractor beams activated. We have it, sir.*
KIRK: Prepare to bring it aboard the hangar deck.*
SULU: Aye, sir.*
KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, send a security team to the pressure doors on the hangar deck.*
UHURA: Aye, sir.*
KIRK: Mister Spock, come with me. Scotty.*
(and after the shuttlecraft is recovered)
SULU [OC]: Bridge to Captain Kirk.*
KIRK: Kirk here.*
SULU [OC]: Hangar doors closed, and hangar deck is pressurizing.*
KIRK: Acknowledged.*


"THE OMEGA GLORY"
KIRK: What about the shuttlecraft?*
GALLOWAY [OC]: Galloway on the hangar deck, sir. All four of the craft are still here. If they left, they didn't leave that way.*
KIRK: Doctor McCoy and I are going to the Bridge. Meet us there.

You can see, with two exceptions of using "Shuttlecraft Bay" almost all references to the facility is question are pretty consistently "Hangar Deck."

I learned something new today.

--Alex

Interesting. And I note that one of those "shuttlecraft bay" references comes from TAS, so the term was only actually used once on the original series. (Does this mean Norman Spinrad kinda, sorta coined the term "shuttle bay"?)

Going back to your original question, as far as I can tell, the "parking" area is never referenced on screen,. FJ's plans refer to them as the "Shuttlecraft Maintenance Shops".

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The launching and landing of the shuttlecraft always looked like a believable operation in TOS. In TOS-R it looks like a cartoon.

All so true.

 

[GSchnitzer]

I seem to recall maybe some on set signage that said "FLIGHT DECK," but I can't recall where exactly, or if I just dreamed it up.

There is obvious signage in Journey to Babel, and Doomsday Machine, but the signs says Hanger Deck.

And it does say "Hanger," and never Hangar.

Spelled incorrectly as hanger in "...Babel" and "Immunity Syndrome;" spelled correctly as hangar in "Doomsday Machine" and "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield."

 

[Phantom]

I was just rewatching a comparison of the FX from JtB and made a discovery:

the observation deck gallery is NOT something added to the remastered edition. It is in fact present in the original scene.

You can view the comparison video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8FnIjzGCVY

You can clearly see the gallery (including the bottom of the windows for st least a couple of seconds starting at ~ 1:45.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Heh. Funny to see one of my old threads resurrected. Interesting conversation, folks.

 

[Mytran]

Phantom - there is undoubtedly something up there in the original footage, but it certainly isn't a section of the observation gallery!

Looks like a section of the lighting rig, maybe? The camera certainly never focuses on it for more than a fraction of a second, so I'm pretty sure it was not supposed to be a part of the set.

Conversely, the opservation gallery that was added by TOS-R was very much supposed to be seen:

It's just a shame that a sideways entrance to the Flight Deck is both impossible on a 947' Enterprise and completely at odds with the landing deck as depicted in both TOS and TOS-R.

Also, the CGI observation gallery drops in height for some reason in between episodes...

 

[Phantom]

TOS-R shows that landing is not a precise art...

Timo Saloniemi

Which was ridiculous on the face of it. The way it was shown originally made perfect sense with just a little thought. Why risk trying to manually pilot a craft throught a relatively small opening when all the launching and landing could be done much more safely on automatic in tandem with a tractor beam?

It's even backed up onscreen in TFF when Kirk suggests Sulu will land the shuttlecraft manually, to which Sulu looks rather caught off guard. The implication being that it's almost never done that way.

Might hold true for TOS(-R) as well. The most "dynamic" launch is an illegal one, by Decker...

But if a pilot can't manually fly the craft with accuracy, there's little point in sending it out, as it has to land in the confines of a very small "outdoors" set anyway, dodging plywood cliffs, styrofoam rocks and aluminum piping trees. Extreme precision is implied, without external aids. Not so extreme that a few extra meters left and right of the landing target circle wouldn't be welcome, though.

Timo Saloniemi

I just reviewed all the major shuttlecraft launches and landings from the Hangar Deck in TOS R.

TrekkieChannel has them up as part of his comprehensive VFX comparisons between the original and Remastered TOS eps.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYVO_FV66VctfXLf9ClmrEg

There are exactly TWO cases where shuttle launches/landings are shown to be anything other than smooth and orderly. Matt Decker's half-crazed escape in "Doomsday Machine". The other is the recovery of Lokai's stolen shuttle in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". In the later case, it is implied that the shuttle is damaged and not functioning properly and is basically towed aboard as is.

In all other cases, the launches/landings are utterly ordinary.

There is ZERO evidence that TOS-R handled shuttlecraft launches and landings in a slapdash manner.

Phantom - there is undoubtedly something up there in the original footage, but it certainly isn't a section of the observation gallery!

Looks like a section of the lighting rig, maybe? The camera certainly never focuses on it for more than a fraction of a second, so I'm pretty sure it was not supposed to be a part of the set.

Conversely, the opservation gallery that was added by TOS-R was very much supposed to be seen:

It's just a shame that a sideways entrance to the Flight Deck is both impossible on a 947' Enterprise and completely at odds with the landing deck as depicted in both TOS and TOS-R.

Also, the CGI observation gallery drops in height for some reason in between episodes...

I'm not sure I agree with your earlier observation. The structure looks like windows to me, very visually similar to the ones in the CG version. The camera didn't focus on them any more than it would on any background detail. It wasn't story important, it was just part of the scenery.

As for the drop in height...that is interesting. The camera angle is different slightly, but it shouldn't change parralax THAT much...