How many shuttlecraft did the Enterprise have?

[J.T.B.]

That quip about the Hangar being large enough to hold a fleet first showed up in the earliest show bible, when the Saucer was described as being 22 decks thick and would routinely detach for inter-system exploration. The comment was just never updated, that's all

That's what I thought. But just how dang big was that ship supposed to be? Even at around double the commonly-accepted dimensions, it's hard to picture even two Baby Boeings working, let alone a "fleet."

 

[Maurice]

That quip about the Hangar being large enough to hold a fleet first showed up in the earliest show bible, when the Saucer was described as being 22 decks thick and would routinely detach for inter-system exploration. The comment was just never updated, that's all

I've never seen that in the show bible. Do you have a copy of that?

 

[Phantom]

^There's a link to it back upthread a bit.

 

[The Old Mixer]

That quip about the Hangar being large enough to hold a fleet first showed up in the earliest show bible, when the Saucer was described as being 22 decks thick and would routinely detach for inter-system exploration. The comment was just never updated, that's all

That's what I thought. But just how dang big was that ship supposed to be? Even at around double the commonly-accepted dimensions, it's hard to picture even two Baby Boeings working, let alone a "fleet."

This makes me wonder how big ol' jet airliners would fare in the Ent-D's massive main shuttlebay....

 

[Warped9]

Ignore him, he's just out to be bitchy about that subject if it even comes up. For six years now,

You betcha. You bring that "stuff" into the TOS forum and it's fair game.

That quip about the Hangar being large enough to hold a fleet first showed up in the earliest show bible, when the Saucer was described as being 22 decks thick and would routinely detach for inter-system exploration. The comment was just never updated, that's all

That's what I thought. But just how dang big was that ship supposed to be? Even at around double the commonly-accepted dimensions, it's hard to picture even two Baby Boeings working, let alone a "fleet."

This makes me wonder how big ol' jet airliners would fare in the Ent-D's massive main shuttlebay....

I'd have to say, though, that having shuttlecraft the size of an executive jet could be pretty sweet.

 

[T'Girl]

...But then there is the Kelvin whose 800 people were evacuated using about twenty shuttles. 40 people ...

Pike said 800 lives, not people, which might give some wiggle room as to exactly what he was referring to.

200 people and the ships cargo of 600 frozen hamster embryos?

 

[Mytran]

That quip about the Hangar being large enough to hold a fleet first showed up in the earliest show bible, when the Saucer was described as being 22 decks thick and would routinely detach for inter-system exploration. The comment was just never updated, that's all

I've never seen that in the show bible. Do you have a copy of that?

^There's a link to it back upthread a bit.

Nope, that was the revised show bible. Here's the one you want:

http://leethomson.myzen.co.uk/Star_Trek/1_Original_Series/Star_Trek_TOS_Writer's_Guide.pdf

And on PDF page 48 (the second p.15) there is the following passage:

WHAT ABOUT THE SHIP'S MAIN SAUCER-LIKE SECTION?

This is the portion of the shop in which we will be and which we will use most. It contains at the very top the ship's bridge and general operation facilities. This "saucer" is approximately twenty stories thick at its widest spot, containing also primary ship's departments, living accommodations, recreational facilities, laboratories, and is in fact a completely self-sustaining unit which can detach itself from the galaxy drive units and operate on atomic impulse power for short-range solar system exploration.

 

[Timo]

Regarding the "verses" thing, there are two angles on the Kelvin there:

1) Technically, everything we see in the opening scenes is common to the two universes, and the shuttle introduced for the 2230s-vintage Kelvin is the only such craft in canonical evidence anywhere. It's delightful to see how it both follows the TOS general aesthetic and manages to create a clumsier, more cluttered, lower-tech interpretation thereof.

2) But that's sort of irrelevant, as we could reproduce the scene with pure TOS hardware and still end up with the same results. There are no "pretty damn big" shuttles in those scenes, just copies of the single "in use in the 2230s" design with two distinct paint jobs, standard and ambulance. The gaggle of twenty'ish fleeing shuttles reflects the close-ups, and although we could argue some of the identical-looking shuttles in the gaggle are in fact big ones farther out, this would take some effort. Where were these shuttles when we saw the interior fo the Kelvin bay and got an idea of its dimensions?

I'd have to say, though, that having shuttlecraft the size of an executive jet could be pretty sweet.

The TOS shuttle really is much roomier than most such jets currently on the market. My preference would be to have an executive jet the size of that shuttle!

Pike said 800 lives

Perhaps he said "800 wives" were saved, referring to the cumulative effects of George "Jim Kirk Sr" Kirk getting himself killed?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

WHAT ABOUT THE SHIP'S MAIN SAUCER-LIKE SECTION?

This is the portion of the shop in which we will be and which we will use most. It contains at the very top the ship's bridge and general operation facilities. This "saucer" is approximately twenty stories thick at its widest spot, containing also primary ship's departments, living accommodations, recreational facilities, laboratories, and is in fact a completely self-sustaining unit which can detach itself from the galaxy drive units and operate on atomic impulse power for short-range solar system exploration.

Heh. None of that makes any sense. I mean "at its widest spot?" It's a DISK!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

WHAT ABOUT THE SHIP'S MAIN SAUCER-LIKE SECTION?

This is the portion of the shop in which we will be and which we will use most. It contains at the very top the ship's bridge and general operation facilities. This "saucer" is approximately twenty stories thick at its widest spot, containing also primary ship's departments, living accommodations, recreational facilities, laboratories, and is in fact a completely self-sustaining unit which can detach itself from the galaxy drive units and operate on atomic impulse power for short-range solar system exploration.

Heh. None of that makes any sense. I mean "at its widest spot?" It's a DISK!

Assuming that, at the time this was written, the ship was to have the general overall shape and orientation that it ended up having, I think it's reasonably clear that for "at its widest spot" he meant "along the saucer's main vertical axis." It seems that he's trying to describe the fact that under sections at the edge of the saucer there are fewer decks but that he was envisioning about 20 decks in total for the saucer then.

 

[Mytran]

It does seem likely and that's how I have always interpreted it. The statement also matches up with unusually high deck dialogue in Season One: 2 instances of "Deck 12" and 1 of "Deck 14"

Unless, I suppose it is a hamfisted way of saying the diameter? On that case, the saucer would be around 200 feet across, more inline with the "small Enterprise" concept from the early model sketches.

But then, the "fleet of aircraft" becomes even more unwieldy!

 

[Forbin]

I think it's pretty clear they were trying to describe the thickness, or height, at the center.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

...But then there is the Kelvin whose 800 people were evacuated using about twenty shuttles. 40 people (or more, given Winona Kirk's had far less) per shuttle doesn't really sound plausible, unless Robau had a large percentage of midgets in his crew, or there were unseen larger evacuation craft involved.

Some of those shuttles are pretty damn big. Witness the one that took Kirk to the Academy and the one that took him and Bones up to Enterprise.

All of which I discount in entirety since they don't have one damned thing to do with TOS as it was conceived.

That's right, so it does not make sense for someone to refer to some separate production having no creative, production or "in-universe" connection to the intent and execution of TOS' shuttlecraft or flight deck.

 

[aridas sofia]

This is made all the easier when you notice that the set is sometimes differently decorated and equipped. Sometimes it has food slots, other times not so much. So I feel it's pretty well established that there are at least two or three different transporter rooms, even just from what we see on screen.

--Alex

I never thought of that as merely a food slot, but rather as a delivery station for whatever supplies might be needed for a landing party. Some transporter rooms have them, some don't. It is a mini-transporter - the delivery slot can beam in a phaser pistol from the armory, a communicator or tricorder from the quartermaster, or food for the transporter tech from the galley.

As for the number of decks and the thickness of the saucer, it very much depends on how you define "deck". Jefferies drew a cross section that had varying deck heights. Some spaces that are called "decks" might, in effect, be crawl spaces. Particularly towards the bottom of the saucer and towards the keel of the secondary hull, the spaces may be tiny but still be called "decks".

What can't be rationalized is an entire fleet of jetliners fitting in any conception of the hangar facilities. That is, unless the prescient writers of the series bible were thinking of drones. Might they have been confusing jet fighters in a carrier hangar with jet liners? Perhaps, and THAT is what I think is the idea they were trying to convey- a busy carrier hangar filled with fighters, recon planes, copters etc. Still beyond the limitations of the Enterprise hangar and flight deck but more imaginable if many of this "fleet" are in fact workbee-sized utility craft.

 

[Mytran]

Given the odd use of language elsewhere in the early show bible, you're probably not far off the mark! I can definitely believe that an aircraft carrier was in the minds of these former Air Force personnel, but a "fleet of jet liners" would put the Enterprise in the size scale of a modern airport!

 

[Maurice]

It was just hyperbole to give writers the idea this was a honking humongous vessel and not some puny rocketship. No one should take it as gospel or even pay it much mind.