• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

How long before "The Man Trap" did McCoy know Kirk?

You should probably clarify if you're talking about the Orion girl, because if you mean Carol, you're objectively wrong.
Yes, I was talking about Gaila. Apart from the addition of Carol, Into Darkness didn't really do much for the women either. There were very few female admirals and none of them spoke. Chapel was a research scientist and could actually have contributed to the story in a meaningful way but they expressly wrote her off the ship early on. A Chance to expand and modernise her character thrown away. A shame as Majel died that year as well.
 
Lol. Ah yes, a wizard did it.
Welcome to Star Trek, where the same characters will always meet and interact in the same place at around the same time despite wildly different circumstances. Spock's "currents of time" from COTEOF is the closest to an explanation in canon for it.
 
Apart from the addition of Carol, Into Darkness didn't really do much for the women either. There were very few female admirals and none of them spoke. Chapel was a research scientist and could actually have contributed to the story in a meaningful way but they expressly wrote her off the ship early on. A Chance to expand and modernise her character thrown away.
Made worse still by the way it was done. It's disgusting to have the protagonist sexually harass a woman under his command so badly that she has to transfer away... and have that be something the audience is supposed to laugh at.
 
Made worse still by the way it was done. It's disgusting to have the protagonist sexually harass a woman under his command so badly that she has to transfer away... and have that be something the audience is supposed to laugh at.
The schoolboy humour when it comes to women can sometimes be fun (it was funny in Beyond when they inverted the trope and Uhura rescued herself - she would never have been such an active protagonist in TOS). Mostly it's about 25+ years out of date and even most boys over the age of 14 have more maturity than that nowadays.

It think it was clear that Abrams didn't have any respect for his female characters. This was a boys' adventure for him full of wish fulfilment heroics and derring-do. Great fun but very shallow, although hats off to the actors, especially Pine for adding as much nuance as they could. Only really mothers and girlfriends were needed.

Wise on the other hand respected his female characters but left them entrenched in their assigned roles, although that is possibly a side effect of an extended bottle episode. So Abrams would have had Uhura work with Spock to resolve V'Ger communication. In TMP, she just throws him a glance and stays at her post. There is a balance to be struck.

As far as McCoy goes, Boyce, Piper, and McCoy are basically the same character so I think it's reasonable to impute that McCoy knew Kirk previously, although early indications in season 1 suggests it may have been a casual acquaintance.
 
Chapel was a research scientist and could actually have contributed to the story in a meaningful way but they expressly wrote her off the ship early on. A Chance to expand and modernise her character thrown away. A shame as Majel died that year as well.
With the Kelvin time change, at the time in ST09, Roger Korby hadn't travelled to Exo 3 yet, so, Chapel would have no reason to join Starfleet. Korby travelled to Exo 3 five years before WALGMO which puts that event around two or three year off in the future, assuming this event still occurs as it did in the prime timeline. Poor Ruk, forever tending the machinery.
 
With the Kelvin time change, at the time in ST09, Roger Korby hadn't travelled to Exo 3 yet, so, Chapel would have no reason to join Starfleet. Korby travelled to Exo 3 five years before WALGMO which puts that event around two or three year off in the future, assuming this event still occurs as it did in the prime timeline. Poor Ruk, forever tending the machinery.
She certainly had no reason to be a nurse. TOS implied that was a last minute decision to get a posting on the ship. Roddenberry suggested she was a brevet i.e. An acting ensign like Wesley Crusher. I liked that because it implied that people were not lining up for 5 year deep space exploration.
 
Yep. How long were the odds that McCoy would end up at the same soup kitchen as Kirk and Spock, a couple of weeks apart?
I put that on the Guardian. It knew when and where to pluck them from when the shape of time had been restored so getting Kirk and Spock close to where they needed to be in regards to McCoy seems plausible. And it did say it was more than just a machine so some independent initiative is not out of the question. Later, in TAS Yesteryear, it retconned into being able to send one to a specific time so this would be just a less accurate version of that.
 
With the Kelvin time change, at the time in ST09, Roger Korby hadn't travelled to Exo 3 yet, so, Chapel would have no reason to join Starfleet. Korby travelled to Exo 3 five years before WALGMO which puts that event around two or three year off in the future, assuming this event still occurs as it did in the prime timeline. Poor Ruk, forever tending the machinery.

But not vaporized.
 
I put that on the Guardian. It knew when and where to pluck them from when the shape of time had been restored so getting Kirk and Spock close to where they needed to be in regards to McCoy seems plausible. And it did say it was more than just a machine so some independent initiative is not out of the question.
In Ellison's scripts it was made clear that each time period had a focal point to which such travelers would be drawn, and that if Kirk & Spock were successful in restoring time's shape they would all be returned. It's never stated that the Guardian was actively plucking them back. It's also why it was never an option to bring Edith back with them, because she was the focal point and history would not resume its shape unless she died.

Later, in TAS Yesteryear, it retconned into being able to send one to a specific time so this would be just a less accurate version of that.
"Yesteryear" is a nice enough story but I dislike the way the Guardian was handled.
 
Well, its gig seems to be to facilitate time travel - but what it has awaited for aeons is not a command or a request, but a question. So while it admits to being a time portal, it probably has an agenda completely different from that of a porter or a bouncer.

Also, it laments having been built to offer history in a specific manner. Spock thinks this refers to the speed at which events pass, but the Guardian probably refers to its hidden agenda instead. Letting history be messed up and then fixed in order to provide a lesson is a consistent interpretation of that agenda, and also consistent with the eagerness with which it welcomes the curiosity-killed-the-cat question that Kirk poses.

In terms of outcomes, it really is Quantum Leap in the sixties, a sadistic exercise in manipulation. Both the TOS and TAS adventures fit the pattern - but unlike Archer, uh, Beckett, Starfleet can choose not to Leap any more. And no doubt does.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I like to think McCoy and Kirk had served together previously. That maybe they'd initially disliked each other - McCoy as the gruff physician and Kirk as the ambitious first officer - but a grudging respect grew into actual friendship. And then when Doctor Piper retired or transferred, Kirk put in a call to his old friend and had him come aboard.
 
Presuming that McCoy entered the Academy at the typical age. I've always interpreted other material, like TMoST, to be more indicative that his marriage had failed, he had an iffy relationship with his daughter, and he wanted a radical break with his old life, choosing to enter Star Fleet at an older age than most.

The implication in The Ultimate Computer is that Bones didn't attend Starfleet Academy. He's confused when Commodore Wesley refers to Captain Kirk as 'Captain Dunsel' and it's left to Spock to explain to him that it's an Academy in-joke.
 
The implication in The Ultimate Computer is that Bones didn't attend Starfleet Academy. He's confused when Commodore Wesley refers to Captain Kirk as 'Captain Dunsel' and it's left to Spock to explain to him that it's an Academy in-joke.
Yeah I think more accurate to say he didn't qualify at Starfleet medical. He probably did officer training after years in private practice. NuMcCoy was mid thirties. That feels about right to me.
 
The implication in The Ultimate Computer is that Bones didn't attend Starfleet Academy. He's confused when Commodore Wesley refers to Captain Kirk as 'Captain Dunsel' and it's left to Spock to explain to him that it's an Academy in-joke.

We could easily assume that it's a joke shared by those who aspire to be captains, and McCoy never did.

Then again, neither did Spock. But he did wear command gold in the pilot; perhaps he started insisting he had no command ambitions only after those petered out?

Timo Saloniemi
 
In Ellison's scripts it was made clear that each time period had a focal point to which such travelers would be drawn, and that if Kirk & Spock were successful in restoring time's shape they would all be returned. It's never stated that the Guardian was actively plucking them back. It's also why it was never an option to bring Edith back with them, because she was the focal point and history would not resume its shape unless she died.
Well, with respect to Ellison, that's metaphysical. And Earth-centric. And stupid. If I want to travel to 1930s Shanghai, I have to go through the 21st Street Mission because Keeler is a focal point? Dumb.
And you have to hope you do something that gets the Universe to kick you back out the Donut because the Guardian ain't running the return trip? What a silly way to run a railroad.
And how can the Guardian offer future trips through the Donut if the Guardian doesn't have the ability to bring you back?
"Yesteryear" is a nice enough story but I dislike the way the Guardian was handled.
But inevitable, because why build a time-travel device if it can't send you to the When you want to go to? And return you when you're done?
 
Well, with respect to Ellison, that's metaphysical. And Earth-centric. And stupid. If I want to travel to 1930s Shanghai, I have to go through the 21st Street Mission because Keeler is a focal point? Dumb.
And you have to hope you do something that gets the Universe to kick you back out the Donut because the Guardian ain't running the return trip? What a silly way to run a railroad.
And how can the Guardian offer future trips through the Donut if the Guardian doesn't have the ability to bring you back?

But inevitable, because why build a time-travel device if it can't send you to the When you want to go to? And return you when you're done?
I prefer my time travel a bit more like 12 Monkeys, Dark, and Tenet but that's just me. Time is happening everywhere all at once. It doesn't care about anyone or anything any more than anything else.
 
Well, with respect to Ellison, that's metaphysical. And Earth-centric. And stupid. If I want to travel to 1930s Shanghai, I have to go through the 21st Street Mission because Keeler is a focal point? Dumb.
And you have to hope you do something that gets the Universe to kick you back out the Donut because the Guardian ain't running the return trip? What a silly way to run a railroad.
And how can the Guardian offer future trips through the Donut if the Guardian doesn't have the ability to bring you back?

But inevitable, because why build a time-travel device if it can't send you to the When you want to go to? And return you when you're done?
Of course it's metaphysical. What did you expect from Ellison? He was a no hard SF writer and, in fact, eventually bristled at being called a science fiction writer.

And why is that Earth centric? They specifically ask to see the history of old Earth, so of course it's going to point at that, and at the focal points therein.

The point in the story is that Beckwith/McCoy jumps through in and alters the time flow around a focal point (Edith) and that screws up everything radiating out from there.
 
Of course it's metaphysical. What did you expect from Ellison? He was a no hard SF writer and, in fact, eventually bristled at being called a science fiction writer.

And why is that Earth centric? They specifically ask to see the history of old Earth, so of course it's going to point at that, and at the focal points therein.

The point in the story is that Beckwith/McCoy jumps through in and alters the time flow around a focal point (Edith) and that screws up everything radiating out from there.
Yeah I guess Edith became the focal point AFTER McCoy went through since that was the only change from which major changes resulted.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top