How is/isn't Discovery Star Trek?

[Groppler Zorn]

Tell that to Sybok.

See, I could understand Sarek not mentioning Sybok since he was the product of a previous (presumably failed) marriage and then Sybok drank the Kool Aid... so I could understand why he was never mentioned until Kirk dreamed him up while he, Spock and McCoy slept around the campfire in Star Trek V.

But why would neither of them mention Michael? Yes I know Vulcans, etc etc but she was in Starfleet. She and Spock have being a first officer in common. She stopped Sarek from doing a genocide. She gave a speech that nobody wanted before the whole Starfleet command council.

Maybe Michael is so famous that the mere mention of her name by Spock would have induced eye rolls to the point where Bones would have had an epidemic on his hands.

#OMGSpockstopnamedroppingyourfamoussister

 

[CorporalClegg]

While Discovery is entertaining I believe it does not deserve the Star Trek designation because it does not follow established canon. If you're going to call yourself Star Trek then follow what came before. Yes you can push into new areas but you can't completely change characters appearance from what has been presented for decades. You can't use this patently ridiculous spore drive idea that has no basis at all in Star Trek. You can't introduce a character whose adoptive parents are supposedly those of one of the most iconic characters in Trek history when there has never been any mention of that character having any kind of sibling.

Beyond that the entire story line was so convoluted, jumping all around and using cliffhangers on every episode that just moved everything way too fast. Star Trek is more a thinking person's television. It is not this breaknet speed plot line that runs so fast that it doesn't seem like it has anywhere to go after just one season. If these things were corrected Discovery could have been very good. I like the actor and I don't mind the tech updates. Unfortunately, it's just more of a series oriented toward those with short attention spans. That is not Star Trek. Star Trek explores moral and philosophical issues. Yes there is some action and tech, but that does not rule the show. The issues in each episode rule the show and that's how it should be.

Interestingly, I have been rewatching Enterprise and Discovery has made me appreciate Enterprise much more. While it was not close to the best Trek series I love how it provides background to so much of what came later (before?) in Trek and generally sticks with the Trek continuity. Discovery could learn a few things from Enterprise. I never thought I would ever say that.

 

[Vger23]

Any time someone stakes the claim that Star Trek is "a thinking person's television show" I stop reading and move on.

 

[dahj]

But why would neither of them mention Michael?

Spock was very "I'm a proper Vulcan boy" at that time, he even avoided mentioning his mother was human, until they met her he only said "one of my ancestors married a human (but great-great-grandma T'Loon was always a bit crazy)"

 

[fireproof78]

About as fun as the fan thinking that V'Ger was sent from the Borg.

Nah. Way more fun than anything Borg related

But why would neither of them mention Michael? Yes I know Vulcans, etc etc but she was in Starfleet. She and Spock have being a first officer in common. She stopped Sarek from doing a genocide. She gave a speech that nobody wanted before the whole Starfleet command council.

My read on Sarek and his family (I will not generalize to all Vulcans) is thus: Sarek doesn't speak of family matters or connections, period. Why would Sarek acknowledge himself doing something heinous? Why would he acknowledge Starfleet when he disapproves of their actions, and what he became as a result?

I think it makes greater sense that he would want to move on rather than remain in that uncomfortable reminder that he had the potential to be just as vicious and violent as the Starfleet he looks down upon.

 

[BillJ]

Way more fun than anything Borg related...

I find Small Universe Syndrome tedious. Whether it be the Borg related to V'Ger, or a generic Starfleet Admiral being a generic asylum prisoner.

 

[fireproof78]

I find Small Universe Syndrome tedious. Whether it be the Borg related to V'Ger, or a generic Starfleet Admiral being a generic asylum prisoner.

To each their own.

 

[Tuskin38]

While Discovery is entertaining I believe it does not deserve the Star Trek designation because it does not follow established canon. If you're going to call yourself Star Trek then follow what came before. Yes you can push into new areas but you can't completely change characters appearance from what has been presented for decades. You can't use this patently ridiculous spore drive idea that has no basis at all in Star Trek. You can't introduce a character whose adoptive parents are supposedly those of one of the most iconic characters in Trek history when there has never been any mention of that character having any kind of sibling.

They can do all of that and more, and it will still be Star Trek. There is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs]

Nah. Way more fun than anything Borg related

My read on Sarek and his family (I will not generalize to all Vulcans) is thus: Sarek doesn't speak of family matters or connections, period. Why would Sarek acknowledge himself doing something heinous? Why would he acknowledge Starfleet when he disapproves of their actions, and what he became as a result?

I think it makes greater sense that he would want to move on rather than remain in that uncomfortable reminder that he had the potential to be just as vicious and violent as the Starfleet he looks down upon.

This would be my take too. But there's always a chance that Michael's story ends in tragedy or a deep loss for Sarek. He's already been shown in DSC to be pretty damn emotional about his little human daughter, so it may be that it ends up too painful for him to talk about her in general. Spock might carry his jealousy for the rest of his life, never having the affection from Sarek that Michael got (but didn't really get to enjoy either, lol....oh Sarek)

 

[Groppler Zorn]

Spock was very "I'm a proper Vulcan boy" at that time, he even avoided mentioning his mother was human, until they met her he only said "one of my ancestors married a human (but great-great-grandma T'Loon was always a bit crazy)"

And yet, Michael was brought up as (essentially) a Vulcan girl. Amanda was the only member of the Sarek clan to behave even remotely like a human. And 2/5ths of them were human!

I wonder whether it’s less about Spock being “Vulcan” and more about Jim’s rule of “no talking about famous relatives on the bridge”.

But seriously I tend to agree with you. Although I want to learn more about grandma T’Loon now...

My read on Sarek and his family (I will not generalize to all Vulcans) is thus: Sarek doesn't speak of family matters or connections, period. Why would Sarek acknowledge himself doing something heinous? Why would he acknowledge Starfleet when he disapproves of their actions, and what he became as a result?

I think it makes greater sense that he would want to move on rather than remain in that uncomfortable reminder that he had the potential to be just as vicious and violent as the Starfleet he looks down upon

So Sarek’s philosophy is basically “sorry not sorry” and he just gets over it? Hehe...

I tend to agree with your interpretation here though, based on what we’ve seen of Sarek - even if we only go on TOS, TSFS, TVH, TUC and TNG.

On a related note - I sometimes marvel at the lengths we go to in order to rationalise things like this in Star Trek. But then again I wonder why Hermione didn’t use the time turner to go back and kill Lord Voldemort, so what do I know about fandom

 

[CorporalClegg]

How often do Star Trek characters ever talk about their families when they're not plot-relevant? Or right. Never.

When in any episode or film was Micheal ever plot-relevant? Oh right. Never.

Get over it already.

 

[jaime]

If one wants to make a never before heard of adopted sister fit, they probably can. A war that pushed the Federation to its doorstep eight years before TOS and won with a super weapon is harder to fit in.

Especially with some kind of fungal growth getting in the way.

 

[Refuge]

It's going to be weird when Michael and her beloved brother meet up . Then fast forward to TOS and we all know there is nothing about her that resonates. I mean she is human. All those times McCoy chided Spock for being so Vulcan when he was half Vulcan. Yet his Mum and his sister were human. Oh Spock, you could've shared your understanding of humans with experiences from your own family. Happy memories about sis and you. You know like when she scraped her knee and water came out of her eyes and you told her how blood clots and forms a scab and then her knee would in all logic - heal. And she laughed and you raised your eyebrow.

 

[XCV330]

It's going to be weird when Michael and her beloved brother meet up . Then fast forward to TOS and we all know there is nothing about her that resonates. I mean she is human. All those times McCoy chided Spock for being so Vulcan when he was half Vulcan. Yet his Mum and his sister were human. Oh Spock, you could've shared your understanding of humans with experiences from your own family. Happy memories about sis and you. You know like when she scraped her knee and water came out of her eyes and you told her how blood clots and forms a scab and then her knee would in all logic - heal. And she laughed and you raised your eyebrow.

cept i feel like Burnham tried earlier in her life to be more Vulcan than the Vulcans. There's only hints of it.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

While Discovery is entertaining I believe it does not deserve the Star Trek designation because it does not follow established canon. If you're going to call yourself Star Trek then follow what came before. Yes you can push into new areas but you can't completely change characters appearance from what has been presented for decades. You can't use this patently ridiculous spore drive idea that has no basis at all in Star Trek. You can't introduce a character whose adoptive parents are supposedly those of one of the most iconic characters in Trek history when there has never been any mention of that character having any kind of sibling.

Beyond that the entire story line was so convoluted, jumping all around and using cliffhangers on every episode that just moved everything way too fast. Star Trek is more a thinking person's television. It is not this breaknet speed plot line that runs so fast that it doesn't seem like it has anywhere to go after just one season. If these things were corrected Discovery could have been very good. I like the actor and I don't mind the tech updates. Unfortunately, it's just more of a series oriented toward those with short attention spans. That is not Star Trek. Star Trek explores moral and philosophical issues. Yes there is some action and tech, but that does not rule the show. The issues in each episode rule the show and that's how it should be.

Interestingly, I have been rewatching Enterprise and Discovery has made me appreciate Enterprise much more. While it was not close to the best Trek series I love how it provides background to so much of what came later (before?) in Trek and generally sticks with the Trek continuity. Discovery could learn a few things from Enterprise. I never thought I would ever say that.

The notion that Star Trek is 'thinking persons' television is laughable considering how toxic, reactionary, juvenile and downright narrow-minded and afraid of change the majority of the fanbase is. Yeah Trek, explored some important issues, but 90's trek was often pretty ham-fisted in how they went about it. I mean they couldn't even talk about homosexuality or introduce a gay character for crying out loud. Once TNG went off the air trek and focused more on anomalies of the week, boring space politics, wars, and self-contained action/technobabble stories. They did in fact come to rule the show, and this is part of why 90's trek died. The notion that trek was exploring topical, socially relevant issues in each episode is total nonsense.

Also canon is whatever the showrunners want it to be. They can change things as they see fit to suit the story they want to tell. If that means that Spock gets an adopted human sister, then so be it. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it 'non-canon'.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Star Trek was never thinking person's television because it did all the thinking for you. If it wasn't [literally] wearing the metaphor on its face, Kirk/Picard/ whoever gave you the answer during summation.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh Spock, you could've shared your understanding of humans with experiences from your own family.

As Spock would say, "It is a private matter."

I certainly do not share every detail with my co-workers regarding my family. And I work in community health.

 

[eschaton]

Star Trek was never thinking person's television because it did all the thinking for you. If it wasn't [literally] wearing the metaphor on its face, Kirk/Picard/ whoever gave you the answer during summation.

I'm not saying that Trek always did a great job at being "Issue TV." But I'm at a loss to think of another non-anthology sci-fi show which has ever even really attempted to do "message" shows on a regular basis. Didactic moral lessons are basically a key part of the Trekkian format - and have been from the beginning. It's one of the reasons why the shows are so family friendly for the most part - because the theme of each episode is so explicit a precocious eight year old can pick up on it, and the show to some extent really does want to teach us something.

 

[Refuge]

As Spock would say, "It is a private matter."

I certainly do not share every detail with my co-workers regarding my family. And I work in community health.

Mere existence and being next of kin is hardly private information. I don't think my brother shared much about his family but we were still on record.

 

[fireproof78]

Mere existence and being next of kin is hardly private information. I don't think my brother shared much about his family but we were still on record.

Depends on the job. I am very cautious about that information, aggressively so. I have yet to see evidence that Vulcans are caviler or forthcoming regarding their family relationships, Spock especially.