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How important is for Picard to save the soul of the Federation?

Jayson1

Jayson1

Fleet Admiral
Admiral
It's seems pretty clear we are going to be seeing a darker take on the Federation. My question though is how important is to everyone for Picard to basically give us a happy ending by the time the show ends by showing the Federation is going to in essence return to normal? Will everyone be angry if the Federation is shown to be hopeless and needs to be destroyed or do you want the show to go with the positive message that Picard was able to be the big hero again and in essence save the world once again.

Me I want the happy ending I think. Of course I haven't even seen a single episode so who knows but that is kind of what I want right in this moment. Just because Brexit can't be stopped in real life doesn't mean the Federation has to be given the same fate.


Jason
 
My gut tells me that, at least initially, Picard isn't really looking to have its main cast shake up the status quo of Starfleet and the Federation in circa 2400. I get the feeling that we are going to get a look at how it is to do good within that system, rather than trying to change the system outright. I certainly think the latter will be something that perhaps could happen as a result of some actions throughout the show, but it strikes me as unlikely that they're going to make it a focus of the show. Everything I've taken from the footage released tells me that this is a much more personal tale, but guess we'll find out soon!

Personally, I'd rather this didn't become about getting the Federation back on the right track. Discovery seems to be hinting at running a similar storyline to that, so there's no need to do it twice. Having a near 100-year-old man single-handedly having the Feds realise they've been doing things wrong, and to turn back to 100% clean cut, just doesn't strike me as authentic. Also allows for an interesting little time period in Trek, should we get any other shows set in this period of time again.
 
Trek has saved us from the Federation several times........this time it will be darker and take 10 hours vs 1 hour back in the 90s.
 
Part of me wonders if this is the beginning of what we see in Discovery S3
A Federation flag with just 6 stars in the 32nd century
Obviously 800 years is a loooooooooong time, long enough for civilisations to fall, rise and fall again, but sci-fi writers have no sense of scale so...

Also, if we're mirroring the darker turn the real world has taken, a happy ending where everything is magically fixed with a speech (and you know it's gonna be a 5 minute Picard monologue) seems a little disingenuous.
 
The showrunners have said that Jean-Luc is in a pretty "dark" place at the start of the series but he will be progressing back to being his more "usual" self (whatever that means). So I'm guessing there's gonna be SOME hope implied.

I don't think it's gonna be like it was on TNG where Badmirals were either kicked out/exposed/realized the errors of their ways after 45 minutes (although it would be kind of a nice nod to it, lol).
 
Jayson1 said:
Just because Brexit can't be stopped in real life doesn't mean the Federation has to be given the same fate.


Jason
Click to expand...
I feel with you on this, but...
King Daniel Beyond said:
Part of me wonders if this is the beginning of what we see in Discovery S3
A Federation flag with just 6 stars in the 32nd century
Obviously 800 years is a loooooooooong time, long enough for civilisations to fall, rise and fall again, but sci-fi writers have no sense of scale so...

Also, if we're mirroring the darker turn the real world has taken, a happy ending where everything is magically fixed with a speech (and you know it's gonna be a 5 minute Picard monologue) seems a little disingenuous.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with King Daniel. I've been wondering the same thing. They have said there won't be direct links between series, but shared themes, and this seems very much like one that could make sense.

Having the Federation go dark , whilst showing that there continue to be people opposed to it, and fighting for the REAL. common good in spite of that could be as interesting a setting as the Federation we all know and love. It certainly makes the job if the writers much easier.

Having the start of the degeneration in one show, and the beginning of a revival in another makes sense.
 
As I've said in the past, I really don't think that it's likely that the fall of the Federation scenario in Picard has anything to do with Discovery's third season. It's already been noted that the two are 800 years apart. This means that the Federation only had what? 240 or so "good years." Then you follow it up with 800 years where it's either an oppressive dictatorship, a tiny remnant state, or absent entirely? There would probably be some other, more recent shining beacon that people in the Alpha Quadrant would look to instead.

Worse still, making an explicit link would deny Picard as a show any sense of agency. If the rot in the Federation sets in inevitably regardless of what Jean-Luc does, why are we watching him try and make things right?

I don't think the Federation is going as "dark" as some people believe though. I think Earth will still seem - for the most part - recognizable to us as "paradise." Instead (keeping with the supposed Trump/Brexit themes of the series) I think it's that the Federation decided to turn its back on the wider galaxy and go isolationist, so there's order within, but chaos without.
 
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Don't worry. Time travel will be used to fix that mess. Soon as Georgiou goes back in time to star in her show it means "Discovery" will then be stuck in a alternate timeline were as Georgiou will be back in the Prime timeline because her being a Section 31 agent was a pre destination event. She was always meant to be a Section 31 agent as was Discovery going into a alternate future timeline.


Jason
 
Jayson1 said:
Don't worry. Time travel will be used to fix that mess. Soon as Georgiou goes back in time to star in her show it means "Discovery" will then be stuck in a alternate timeline were as Georgiou will be back in the Prime timeline because her being a Section 31 agent was a pre destination event. She was always meant to be a Section 31 agent as was Discovery going into a alternate future timeline.


Jason
Click to expand...

If she was always meant to become a S31 agent and goes to that during/after the events of Season 3, then that would mean Discovery is in the correct timeline, not an alternate one. Everything she would go on to do in S31 would’ve already happened in Discovery’s past.
 
Blooded said:
If she was always meant to become a S31 agent and goes to that during/after the events of Season 3, then that would mean Discovery is in the correct timeline, not an alternate one. Everything she would go on to do in S31 would’ve already happened in Discovery’s past.
Click to expand...

I think Discovery would have been the correct timeline up until it went to the future. Everything from this point for the show would be in a alternate future. Much like how real Spock simply vanished from his timeline to live the rest of his time in a different timeline only in that case it was one set in the past. If Discovery had never went to the future the Prime timeline would have been changed and we might never got TOS and everything because Spock would be different and talking about Burnham all the time on TOS. Now he can't because of law or something. Also it means Georgiou would have never gone to the future and experience the future and have that life experience that she will return to rejoin Section 31. I mean she still would be in Section 31 but without the experiences she will have from living in the future for a short while. Seeing the Federation destroyed could in fact change how she functions as a Agent.


Jason
 
I doubt they'll do anything to put future Discovery in a pocket universe. You can do a timeline reset for an episode (or two), but not an entire series.

I expect the angle will be akin to what they've stated in interviews, that the events of PIC, DS9, and everything else will be considered distant past, similar to us discussing the Avignon Papacy or something.
 
BillJ said:
I really hope they spare us from this. I like Picard, but I don't need any Michael Burnham style monologues.
Click to expand...

Were talking Patrick Stewart here. If anyone can make a monologue or speech work it will be him. I loved Picard's speeches on TNG. Granted his speeches use to have more substance than what Burnham usually has to say but even if they don't, he will still make it work. Got to remember this show has mostly different writers than Discovery.


Jason
 
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