How iconic or well-remembered is this show
- Thread starter indycar
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TNG is a go-to pop culture reference for all kinds of comedy shows. Picard, Data and Worf are characters everyone is very familiar with. It's not quite as big now as it was maybe ten years ago.
TNG hasn't had the legs of TOS in terms of legacy.
TNG at its height -during its run- was more popular than any Trek incarnation. It really could have gone on beyond Season 7 because of ratings and popularity. It would have, on a network.
TNG would be more popular today, if it weren't for "Deep Space Nine" and "Voyager". (That's not a put down by any means of those 2 shows). TNG is less special because it all became this diluted "franchise".
It's first 2 seasons are dated in ways TOS isn't, even today. Unwatchable even. That hurts it's legacy.
TNG at its height -during its run- was more popular than any Trek incarnation. It really could have gone on beyond Season 7 because of ratings and popularity. It would have, on a network.
TNG would be more popular today, if it weren't for "Deep Space Nine" and "Voyager". (That's not a put down by any means of those 2 shows). TNG is less special because it all became this diluted "franchise".
It's first 2 seasons are dated in ways TOS isn't, even today. Unwatchable even. That hurts it's legacy.
You think anyone who is passingly familiar with pop culture doesn't know who Data and Worf are?
STNG was amazingly successful, still is, but TOS had the benefit of being out of production for 10 years to gain a slow simmer then an explosive following that eventually became STTMP. It's this period that it acquired it's iconic status.
I think this is a big piece of the puzzle. TNG is dinged to a degree for its three less successful siblings. It'll always be remembered by us, but I don't think it has the pop culture afterlife that TOS did.
Disagree totally. The first 2 seasons of STNG were beautifully shot and glossier than later seasons, they do not look remotely as dated as even TOS did compared to shows like Space 1999, BSG and Buck Rogers, just 5-10 years later in the 1970s. The STNG bluray proves the cinematic, detailed look was always there and it stacks up well to modern shows.
Worf is definitely not well known to those who didn't follow TNG or DS9. Data isn't really that well known. Data may be known to those who like the robots/droids in a variety of films and tv shows. But Worf? Heck No
I think TNG is more iconic in pop culture overall than it's given credit. But all Trek less iconic to the general audiences than we probably think it is on this forum.
Yeah Patrick Stewart is known for his more recent roles in the public mind, but so is William Shatner with his commercials and other things he's done these days. Spock / Kirk are still known to the general population because they're the leads in the latest movies, refreshing them in people's minds.
Ask someone not into sci fi about Star Trek if they're older there's a good chance their answer would be something like "ohhh that show with the guy with the visor? And the bald guy?"
And ask those that are younger and not into sci fi about William Shatner might say "the guy from the commercials?"
Yeah Patrick Stewart is known for his more recent roles in the public mind, but so is William Shatner with his commercials and other things he's done these days. Spock / Kirk are still known to the general population because they're the leads in the latest movies, refreshing them in people's minds.
Ask someone not into sci fi about Star Trek if they're older there's a good chance their answer would be something like "ohhh that show with the guy with the visor? And the bald guy?"
And ask those that are younger and not into sci fi about William Shatner might say "the guy from the commercials?"
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Iconic to television, very. Iconic to the world or even American culture, hardly. TNG spawned 15 years of television that strived for its likeness, but apart from a few characters who are about as culturally significant as Mr. T, its impact on the culture is minimal, except that it belongs to & is a continuation of all Star Trek, which IS iconic, the name, the ship, some of the big characters like Spock/Kirk, etc.... Face it, if I show any adult a picture of any 1701, they know what it is. That's iconic. A picture of Worf or Data? Not so much
I'm not sure TNG will ever be as iconic or well remembered as TOS. Certainly characters like Kirk/Spock and perhaps even MCCoy and Scotty might be known to the average person on the street. Is the same true of LaForge and Crusher. As for Picard they might rember him as that Bald Captain and TNG as the show with the bald Captain or perhaps today as the show with Prof. X.
DSN the one with the black Captain set on a station
VOY thre one with the female Captain
ENT heh it's that guy from Qunatum Leap.
DSN the one with the black Captain set on a station
VOY thre one with the female Captain
ENT heh it's that guy from Qunatum Leap.
Hard to say. At the moment, TOS has the advantage because it was being rerun constantly in syndication for a generation or two (not unlike, say, GILLIGAN'S ISLAND). TNG has lived on in reruns, too, but in a much more crowded cable universe, so it seems less ubiquitous than TOS was back in the seventies and eighties.
Granted, those of us who grew upon daily STAR TREK reruns are going to die out, but I wonder whether TNG can be ever achieve that level with familiarity with the general audience now that there are more than four or five TV stations on the dial . . . and a lot more viewing options.
Granted, those of us who grew upon daily STAR TREK reruns are going to die out, but I wonder whether TNG can be ever achieve that level with familiarity with the general audience now that there are more than four or five TV stations on the dial . . . and a lot more viewing options.
As you say there is a lot more choice today then there was in the 70's and 80's. So it's easier for a show to get lost in the crowd, and harder to stand out.
Our viewing habits have also changed, back in the 70' and early 80's if you wanted to watch something you had to watch it as it was broadcast. Today if I want to watch TNG, I can just pop in the DVD/BR and watch it or stream it. I can watch my favourite episodes and skip the ones I like less.
But have we had any shows we could call iconic recently? As for well remembered are we remembering shows for how good they where or how bad they became. Take shows like Lost and Heroes sure we might remember them but why. Great first season then they went downhill.
I agree. I mean TNG's high point in pop culture penetration to me was probably in 1994, with Picard and Kirk on the cover of TIME magazine, in promotion for Generations. But after that, TNG had competition for other Trek shows, other sci-fi and genre shows. Not to mention the diminishing returns of the last two TNG films. And I don't think its as well known or its characters as iconic or well regarded among mass audiences as TOS. Right now, I don't see them rebooting TNG movies.
Though most of the original series is more recognized, I suspect that TNG's versions of the Klingons and the Prime Directive are more known and recognized and even regarded as definitive for Trek among the general audience (albeit maybe largely to mock them) and the Borg are also considered a big part of what Trek is about.
I think the show overall is regarded by the general audience as at least quite good for a science fiction series, that it's popular and has remained so for a long time among sci fi fans is known and that gives it some lasting prestige, although a lot of the general audience doesn't like sci fi or older television in general.
I think the show overall is regarded by the general audience as at least quite good for a science fiction series, that it's popular and has remained so for a long time among sci fi fans is known and that gives it some lasting prestige, although a lot of the general audience doesn't like sci fi or older television in general.
The simple fact that so many 'TNG Memes' exist (and are thrown around on social media so often that a day doesn't go by when I don't see *at least* one, usually being used by someone who otherwise wouldn't classify themselves as a "fan") is proof of TNG being iconic. TOS has got tenure, but I'd argue TNG is at least equal in terms of the zeitgeist, being part of mass public-consciousness.
DS9, VOY and ENT are all in distinctly lesser categories. Make a joke about Quark's Bar or Janeway's coffee addiction and you'll get a 'Ha ha' from a Star Trek fan, but it'll be more like a 'Huh?' from most of the general public. Make one about Riker's sexual escapades or any variant of Picard's "Make It So" and nearly everyone will probably still get it.
I guess this is a good barometer by which to judge whether a TV show is an icon or not.
DS9, VOY and ENT are all in distinctly lesser categories. Make a joke about Quark's Bar or Janeway's coffee addiction and you'll get a 'Ha ha' from a Star Trek fan, but it'll be more like a 'Huh?' from most of the general public. Make one about Riker's sexual escapades or any variant of Picard's "Make It So" and nearly everyone will probably still get it.
I guess this is a good barometer by which to judge whether a TV show is an icon or not.
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