How fast is warp speed?

[Pauln6]

Didn't the Constellation, near where the 3rd or 4th planet would have been have it's disaster beacon on and the Enterprise picked it up and spotted it with sensors as it entered the limits of the star system they were searching? It seemed pretty reasonable that the Enterprise was still at warp when entering the system and when making final approach to the Constellation given how quickly they crossed the distance.

The better reason why the E-D did't realize that there is a mess of destroyed ships in front of them was probably because they didn't know where to look with the short time they had to scan the area on warp approach.

The TOS Enterprise had no problem checking out planets and outposts while at minutes away high warp but spotting errant ships and/or people required knowing where to look.

ST:XI is a little different in that the carnage literally was right in the Enterprise's path which in TOS the ship usually would alert the crew and automatically raise shields well before they ran into it

Exactly, it is silly to suggest that 24th century health and safety obsessed Federation would have less efficient technology than 21st century aerolplanes.

I'm sure every second did count when they reached Vulcan, which is why they wasted no time rescuing Federation citizens from the surface... oh wait...

 

[The_Baroness]

Talking about how the Enterprise couldn't see the carnage at Vulcan until they dropped out of warp...

When we watched the film, and we saw that scene, my missus thought that they suddenly saw the wrecked ships because they had..

"only just turned the screen on"

..bless..

 

[Ronald Held]

Bigger and faster ships compared to the Prime 1701, but inferior or different subspace sensors?

 

[EmperorTiberius]

It's possible that the sensor dish can not scan with great resolution while at warp. Being that there were other planets and may be an asteroid belt or two, it only makes sense that that huge clutter would mask the tiny mass of destroyed starships. Similar to Wolf 359.

And I agree with Timo, I don't think Federation ships use transponders like airliners today. They can only track someone if they actually send out an SOS.

 

[blssdwlf]

It is likely that transponders were used in TOS but definitely in TNG as "The Wounded" hinged on the Feds tracking the Phoenix and the Cardassians by their transponder code (like airliners today.)

As to how fast the JJ-1701 it is hard to tell from just one movie. No time and distance were given. The ship does feel "hyperspace fast" though

After a little digging, TOS warp could be put into 3 categories:

• Inside star system/near large gravity well travel
  • "Tomorrow is Yesterday", "Operation:Annihilate",ST4:"The Voyage Home" showed that flying around in a star system at high warp toward a star gets you somewhat above light speed. Perhaps further out the faster you can go.
• Inside galaxy travel
  • "Obsession" and "That Which Survives" the ship could cross 1000 ly in less than a day's travel if pushed hard enough (that's over 400,000 ly per year).
• Between galaxy travel
  • "By Any Other Name" suggests travel between galaxies is much slower at around 500-800 ly per year. The Kelvins could increase that to over 8000 ly per year.

But that's just TOS. I don't think the writers in TNG kept it that fast so it's like a different universe, IMHO

 

[Pauln6]

I think that there was a DS9 episode where the Feds obtain intel to let them track the transponders of the enemy as well. This tells us that you can't track enemy vessels' transponders unless you can crack their encryption codes which in turn implies that it isn't possible to track an enemy ship at warp, although you can follow a warp trail. The same doesn't apply to your own ships though. That is quite different from being unable to scan the area of space ahead of you for hazards. You are travelling so fast at warp that you would need to be able to scan a good distance in order to have time to do anything about it.

Presumably the transponder has a communications range of 22 light years so if you are out of range of a subspace relay, you are on your own. Most vessels would be required to drop temporary relays as they go to avoid losing contact if going out this far.

Varying warp speeds dependent on local spacial and subspacial conditions is necessary to explain away the many inconsistencies in the various shows.

 

[Urge]

How fast is warp-speed? Im working on a trek book now (If the franchise doesnt like the result it will turn into fan-fiction) and in that book I have made alien race count their warp-speed like this:

Impulse-engines: Can go up to almost the speed of light in very short time.

Warp engine: Contracts space in front of the craft. Zero warp means no contraction, one means that twise as much space is jammed together in the few kilometers of space that the engine contracts.

At half impulse, two warp you will have the speed of light, at three quarter impulse three or four warp it will be above, and so on.

I really liked this system, but then it turned out that things are going a bit slower than what they usually do out in cannon trek-land. It`s okay though, more time to enjoy everyday life in space, and get nessecary dialogues and such done.

 

[Ronald Held]

The mantra of the JJverse seems to be: larger faster flasher. Shouldn't we have some idea of the elapsed time betwen the Earth launch of the JJ 1701 and its arrival at Vulcan, It was not days?

 

[F. King Daniel]

On the surface, it looks like a 3 minute journey at "maximum warp" (which by the looks of that speedometer at the top of the viewer which was half-full at warp 4, is warp 8) but there are two cuts indicating missing time - first, when Kirk is brought to sickbay he's no longer in all-red cadet gear, but an Enterprise uniform sans division shirt, and second after Kirk is sedated and we cut to Sulu saying "maximum warp, sir" (which could indicate a long acceleration, or a simple confirmation of speed). When Kirk wakes, McCoy is out of his cadet gear and in uniform. More time is elapsed than we see while Kirk and McCoy are running around the ship from the sickbay, to the comminications' centre and to the bridge (I doubt they're all on the same deck!), but nothing too huge. It really comes down to how long Kirk was sedated. I guess a few hours.

I should point out that Scotty's "we'll have you back at Vulcan in four days" from TMP is probably the slowest that warp speed is depicted other than in Voyager.

 

[kkozoriz1]

However, it does give us a time and Enterprise gave us a distance. Works out to about 4 ly/day in the prime universe. If we're generous and say a "mild" sedative knocked Kirk out for an hour the Earth to Vulcan takes about 1/96th as long in the nuUniverse, assuming the same warp factor.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

,,

 

[F. King Daniel]

However, it does give us a time and Enterprise gave us a distance. Works out to about 4 ly/day in the prime universe. If we're generous and say a "mild" sedative knocked Kirk out for an hour the Earth to Vulcan takes about 1/96th as long in the nuUniverse, assuming the same warp factor.

You're taking Scotty's line in TMP as gospel, when the vast majority of Star Trek indicates that warp speed is much, much faster. If anything, TMP is the odd one out in being unusually slow. Perhaps the Enterprise's engines were damaged by V'ger?

 

[kkozoriz1]

Damaged at what point? Scotty doesn't seem particulary concerned and Kirk orders the ship to go to warp "thataway" when they're already at Earth.

But, to avoid an arguement I'll agree with you that Scotty was lying for no reason.

 

[blssdwlf]

I should point out that Scotty's "we'll have you back at Vulcan in four days" from TMP is probably the slowest that warp speed is depicted other than in Voyager.

True that Scotty gives a time but he does not give any indication of how fast they were going to go. Was it going to be a leisurely trip back or maximum warp?

Remember that Spock made the trip from Vulcan to near Earth (somewhere close to intercept the Enterprise) in less than a day in a warp shuttle. That doesn't give us any indication of how far Vulcan is but it does show that if a warp shuttle can do it in less than a day then the Enterprise should have been capable of doing it in an even shorter time if Scotty was in a hurry to get Spock back.

 

[kkozoriz1]

He said "We can have you back on Vulcan in four days, Mr. Spock." Seeing as they had run at warp 7 while moving out to encounter V'Ger we may conclude that it's the maximum cruising speed of the refit Enterprise. Seeing as the engines were new and had just been balanced I can imagine that they wouldn't want to over tax them, especially since they had to be able to keep up with V'Ger on the trip back.

What reason would they have for going warp 1 or 2 to Vulcan?

"We could have you back to Vulcan in a couple of hours Mr. Spock but we're going to make it 48 times longer." That would be like saying "I can drive from Washington DC to New York in 5 hours" and then driving 10 miles an hour and taking the longest route.

 

[blssdwlf]

The only reason I can think of is that they weren't in a hurry to get Spock back. In "That Which Survives" at Warp 8.4 they would've crossed 990.7 ly in 11.337 hours. That's like 87 ly/hour. But they were in a hurry to get back to the planet and rescue Kirk. But in TMP's case, the whole gang is going through sort of a re-union and I just don't see them in a rush to kick Spock back to Vulcan Of course, Scotty could have also been saying, "after 3-4 days of a proper shakedown cruise we'll get you back home" as well

Now we don't know what warp speed Spock's shuttle was going in TMP, but he went from Vulcan to (near) the Sol system in less than a day (more like 12-15 hours) and he was probably maxing out the engines to intercept the Enterprise. And that was on a warp shuttle.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But, to avoid an arguement I'll agree with you that Scotty was lying for no reason.

It's not Scotty lying, it's inconsistant writing - a staple of Trek since the the very beginning.

 

[Ronald Held]

the NX=01 tooks several days from Erath to Vulcan at no more than warp 5, using the same scales as TOS.

 

[blssdwlf]

But, to avoid an arguement I'll agree with you that Scotty was lying for no reason.

It's not Scotty lying, it's inconsistant writing - a staple of Trek since the the very beginning.

It's only inconsistent if Scotty said, "At maximum warp we'll have you back in four days." In which Spock would reply, "Mr. Scott, I made the journey to Earth from Vulcan in 14.56 hours. Surely you can do better than that?"

 

[kkozoriz1]

We can have you back in four days. We can have you back in a month and a half. We can have you back in 160 years. All possible but which one would be the most likely that Scotty was referring to?

Perhaps it would really only take an hour or so such as in XI but for some reason we are never given or given any reason to suspect it really would take much longer?