Spoilers How do you like it that Picard is an android now?

[Ghel]

How did he even develop? Was he an embryo and fetus in the coffin, with the planet as his placenta? XD

LOL. Yeah, it's best to not really think too hard about this one.

 

[Dar70]

But this would actually make it worse. The film establishes whatever element of Spock was left in his physical brain was essentially wiped out by the genesis planet and his new body/mind is a blank slate.
In Voyage Home, it is also established that even upon receiving his Katra, Spock has to be "retrained" in the Vulcan way.
These would tend to establish that if the person of Spock wasn't in his Katra, then that aspect of Spock is indeed dead. So, not only is the post Star Trek III Spock a copy of the original, but he is a *partial* copy at that!

I dont buy that. There is still something of his original cells and his mind is restored...
He is in a fog at first but by the next movie he is back to normal. Picard....Zero...

 

[NCC-73515]

there's just no way of convincing you and any further attempts are pointless

 

[dupersuper]

Because humans are not a fairy tale story. Star Trek isn't treated like a fairy tale. It's treated like a prescription on humanity, to evolve and to become better. Except, all the becoming better is left off screen and everything is all neatly wrapped up. I enjoy escapism-don't tell me that the fictional characters are to be my inspiration for handling real life problems.

Stories can fulfill multiple functions.

 

[dupersuper]

I dont buy that. There is still something of his original cells and his mind is restored...
He is in a fog at first but by the next movie he is back to normal. Picard....Zero...

So...having some of the same cells mean he's the same person?

 

[Dar70]

So...having some of the same cells mean he's the same person?

Yes. As much as anyone. As I said some cells in the brain are pretty much the only original ones we have through our lifetimes. Well tooth enamel as well. Picards whole damn brain, everything was replaced. Including his memories with a copy.

 

[dupersuper]

Yes. As much as anyone. As I said some cells in the brain are pretty much the only original ones we have through our lifetimes. Well tooth enamel as well. Picards whole damn brain, everything was replaced. Including his memories with a copy.

So the Data in Picard wasn't Data?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yes. As much as anyone. As I said some cells in the brain are pretty much the only original ones we have through our lifetimes. Well tooth enamel as well. Picards whole damn brain, everything was replaced. Including his memories with a copy.

What about the other one?

They made two Picards.

And we are not positive that the original is dead.

 

[Dar70]

What about the other one?

They made two Picards.

And we are not positive that the original is dead.

You mean from early TNG?

 

[Dar70]

So the Data in Picard wasn't Data?

Nope. Just a copy of his original programming. That is all...

 

[Guy Gardener]

You mean from early TNG?

I'm trying to push the theory that the process that makes two positronic androids from one positronic neuron, is similar enough to making a Picard android body to put the recording of Picard's brainwaves into, also created Twin Picards.

Also, I doubt you can make even one tailored android body in less than 15 minutes.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

The Picard android bodies would have been made months earlier, which means that everything that happened in season one was a cunning ruse, up until the point that the Synths faked Picard's Death or the Synths murdered Picard, and wheeled out their Synth Picard.

Nothing is real.

 

[Deks]

Nope. Just a copy of his original programming. That is all...

In Data's case... his consciousness was reconstructed from a single neuron (which somehow survived an explosion of the Scimitar).
Data mentioned in ST:Picard that he doesn't remember his own death... so in Data's case, we probably saw a copy of Data's consciousness.

As for Picard himself, there was no 'copying' of his brain... it was said his consciousness was moved from his physical body to the android one.
So, its still the Picard we knew before the consciousness transfer, except now he's in an Android body... not a copy, but the original.

But yes, one could argue that in early TNG, the 'original' Picard died when he transferred himself with the energy lifeform off the ship.
What we saw from that point onward (to the end of TNG and through all the movies - and now Picard series) was seemingly a duplicate Picard (a transporter clone if you will).

In his Android body, Picard's consciousness wasn't lost... it was moved from his dying physical body to the android one (which was modified to fit Picard's organic body)... so they probably sampled original cells, and then eliminated his medical problem.
But honestly, I do think Picard was limited in a sense by not choosing an indefinite lifespan. Although who knows, its possible he managed to remove that limitation and extend his lifespan even more.

 

[Deks]

I'm trying to push the theory that the process that makes two positronic androids from one positronic neuron, is similar enough to making a Picard android body to put the recording of Picard's brainwaves into, also created Twin Picards.

Also, I doubt you can make even one tailored android body in less than 15 minutes.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

The Picard android bodies would have been made months earlier, which means that everything that happened in season one was a cunning ruse, up until the point that the Synths faked Picard's Death or the Synths murdered Picard, and wheeled out their Synth Picard.

Nothing is real.

Not really.
We've seen that clones can be grown in days. The UFP doesn't condone cloning, but certainly has the technology for accelerated body growth.

Picard's consciousness was transfered/moved (not copied) from his dying body into that Quantum space where Data's reconstructed consciousness resided.
While Picard was chatting away with Data, Soong and Jurati likely sampled Picard's body cells and adapted the synth body to him with the DNA from the dead Picard body.

Besides, the synth body was already made if you recall. Soong wanted to use it... but he gave it to Picard instead. And using the DNA to modify the body to the host consciousness was likely the last step which wouldn't take long... it probably was fairly fast... and we don't know how much time passed while Data and Picard talked.

 

[fireproof78]

there's just no way of convincing you and any further attempts are pointless

Indeed. Android Picard is one of the Trekkiest idea since TOS. It's in line with Trek's history and how it treats the mind. The only barrier now is individual reception.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In Data's case... his consciousness was reconstructed from a single neuron (which somehow survived an explosion of the Scimitar).
Data mentioned in ST:Picard that he doesn't remember his own death... so in Data's case, we probably saw a copy of Data's consciousness.

As for Picard himself, there was no 'copying' of his brain... it was said his consciousness was moved from his physical body to the android one.
So, its still the Picard we knew before the consciousness transfer, except now he's in an Android body... not a copy, but the original.

But yes, one could argue that in early TNG, the 'original' Picard died when he transferred himself with the energy lifeform off the ship.
What we saw from that point onward (to the end of TNG and through all the movies - and now Picard series) was seemingly a duplicate Picard (a transporter clone if you will).

In his Android body, Picard's consciousness wasn't lost... it was moved from his dying physical body to the android one (which was modified to fit Picard's organic body)... so they probably sampled original cells, and then eliminated his medical problem.
But honestly, I do think Picard was limited in a sense by not choosing an indefinite lifespan. Although who knows, its possible he managed to remove that limitation and extend his lifespan even more.

Copy and Paste vs. Cut and Paste.

There's no such thing as a human soul.

 

[Mondragon]

"Before your brain functions ceased, Dr. Soong and jerahti with help from Soji were able to Scan, map and transfer a complete neural image of your brain substrates"...

Sounds like a copy to me...
Every Atom of Picard is gone.

... there was no 'copying' of his brain... it was said his consciousness was moved from his physical body to the android one

I'm not arguing either way.
Can't be both. So which is it?

In the scenario describe in the quote- Was there ever two separate "consciousness" that is neural models of Picards brain substrates, existing at the same moment? (one (the original) inside the not yet ceased Picard body, and another outside)?

"Before your brain functions ceased, Dr. Soong and jerahti with help from Soji were able to Scan, map and transfer a complete neural image of your brain substrates"...

?

Copy and Paste vs. Cut and Paste..

This is an apt analogy.

 

[Dar70]

Can't be both. So which is it?

In the scenario describe in the quote- Was there ever two separate "consciousness" that is neural models of Picards brain substrates, existing at the same moment? (one inside the not yet ceased Picard body, and another outside)?

?

The writers just suck...lol

 

[JWPlatt]

Because they didn't know that that was happening until some one thought to do it?

To add: If he was the same Picard, why the big grief when he died when the characters knew they were going to bring him back moments later?

I'm intrigued by your thoughts on the timeline of how long the body and brain remain viable for "mapping" and "scanning" versus golem prep time. I suppose if McCoy can invent a cure for everything within an hour, except for his own father, anything is possible, perhaps with superman blood and tribbles? Another conspiracy theory above posits that it was all a ruse and they were totally prepared with a golem ready to go. What's your timeline?

 

[JWPlatt]

The writers just suck...lol

Way to break the fourth wall. :P

 

[Dar70]

Way to break the fourth wall. :P

Haha.