It has been said time and time again… by you.
how do you account for all of the numerous canon violations in this show?
- Thread starter crashchaos
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and the producers, and writers.It has been said time and time again… by you.
It's a futile argument until we know where the series goes. There may be a reasonable tying up of loose ends, or there may not be. The fact that I really do NOT know where this story is going is one of the reasons I love it. There has never before been a Trek series where I couldn't predict at least generally where it was going to land. I think it's been interesting throughout and the last 4 episodes have been astoundingly good. Perfect, no, nothing is perfect, but holy crap what a ride.
Nope...
The fact is that we had figured exactly where this story was going
(Ash/Voq, mirror universe, Mirror Lorca, etc.)
And I’m not talking about spoilers either. It was the writing that had telegraphed it all. There has never been before such an astounding predictability.
Pretty sure the Klingon one was telegraphed on purpose.
I don’t think the other thing was obvious
It’s on screen, it’s canon. There can’t actually be “canon violations”.
Continuity errors...another story (not that I care about that either). But if we’re going to be insufferably pedantic (as any “canon violation” argument inevitably does), let’s at least be insufferably pedantic about the correct term.
Continuity errors...another story (not that I care about that either). But if we’re going to be insufferably pedantic (as any “canon violation” argument inevitably does), let’s at least be insufferably pedantic about the correct term.
I kinda care, what's the point in establishing a world, and some rules around it if you're just going to throw them out the window all the time. The world and the environment in which a story is written establishes much of the context.
For franchises that are so long, like Star Trek or X-Files and what not, I just tend to give a pass. I mean they contradict themselves a lot but not much, considering such a long timeline.
So when things get this long I just stop trying to account
For franchises that are so long, like Star Trek or X-Files and what not, I just tend to give a pass. I mean they contradict themselves a lot but not much, considering such a long timeline.
So when things get this long I just stop trying to account
Basically in my mind, TOS never actually looked like TOS, it looked far closer to TMP and it's obvious this is the route Discovery tried to go with as well, linking Enterprise with the TMP era. When you watch TMP again, you really get a sense of how much Discovery is aping on TMP's visuals. The interior shots are near identical.
Holograms, don't care about and the Spore Drive is an issue that will likely be solved by the end of the Season.
A bigger issue with the Klingon War, The Klingon Redesign, the Klingon ships and knowledge of the Mirror Universe.
Nothing about the Klingons really works. In this era they are supposed to be basically Humans due to the Augment virus but these Klingons are giant bald monsters. I actually don't mind the Redesign (though they look 100x better with hair) but it still doesn't explain why these Klingons look this way when at this point in time, they're near indistinguishable from humans.
Even worse are the Klingon ship designs. What in hell were they thinking? Literally nothing about these Ships are Star Trek or Klingon at all. One ship is literally a tube covered in greebles. What?
Knowledge of the Mirror Universe.. I suspect we may see some timereset spore drive nonsense but if they don't explain this I guess shrug because honestly a lot of TOS is of dubious canon quality anyway.
Holograms, don't care about and the Spore Drive is an issue that will likely be solved by the end of the Season.
A bigger issue with the Klingon War, The Klingon Redesign, the Klingon ships and knowledge of the Mirror Universe.
Nothing about the Klingons really works. In this era they are supposed to be basically Humans due to the Augment virus but these Klingons are giant bald monsters. I actually don't mind the Redesign (though they look 100x better with hair) but it still doesn't explain why these Klingons look this way when at this point in time, they're near indistinguishable from humans.
Even worse are the Klingon ship designs. What in hell were they thinking? Literally nothing about these Ships are Star Trek or Klingon at all. One ship is literally a tube covered in greebles. What?
Knowledge of the Mirror Universe.. I suspect we may see some timereset spore drive nonsense but if they don't explain this I guess shrug because honestly a lot of TOS is of dubious canon quality anyway.
...Of course, Klingons aren't "supposed" to be humans in this era, either. After all, Julian Bashir is astounded that such a thing could be true - so it must be but a footnote in the history of the species, a really, really brief aberration with few repercussions. The ENT story about the Almost-Augments caters nicely for that, too.
Quite a few reset buttons lit up this week as regards both the MU and the spore drive. It remains to be seen whether those get pushed. Or, really, which of the get pushed to the desired effect.
Timo Saloniemi
Quite a few reset buttons lit up this week as regards both the MU and the spore drive. It remains to be seen whether those get pushed. Or, really, which of the get pushed to the desired effect.
Timo Saloniemi
I'm with you Donker in that visually to me I don't have an issue with discovery (not even the hairless Klingons) - its the Klingon ships. They need to at least have some style characterics of what we have seen before. I'm not one of those types that you can't modernize a basic design. I'm fine with the look of discovery and if the Enterprise showed up I wouldn't care if looked more like the new movie versions.
But the Klingon bathe cruisers should have some visual similiarity to what we have seen in the past. Klingons themselves - yea they didn't like hair in this decade. Then the whole Novembeard things started on Kronos and everyone was growing out there hair all of a sudden.
But the Klingon bathe cruisers should have some visual similiarity to what we have seen in the past. Klingons themselves - yea they didn't like hair in this decade. Then the whole Novembeard things started on Kronos and everyone was growing out there hair all of a sudden.
The "many Houses" setup sort of allows for variety in the ships. It's just too bad that we don't see any of the Houses represent the recognizable Klingon aesthetique. Then again, if one did, we'd know this one would win...
Kol is dead, but is the House of Kor down for good? Will their ships triumph and allow another guy named Kor to partake in a war ten years later, albeit on a distant side theater where he only faces another young upstart?
Timo Saloniemi
Kol is dead, but is the House of Kor down for good? Will their ships triumph and allow another guy named Kor to partake in a war ten years later, albeit on a distant side theater where he only faces another young upstart?
Timo Saloniemi
They don't. The D5 in "Marauders" was fitted out with huge fuel tanks and had one of its disruptor cannons removed.
It's also puzzling why some ships have a "D" class and others don't. The D4 patrol ships from STID certainly aren't related to the D5 cruisers we saw in the 22nd century, which leads me to wonder if the small ship that the Augments stole in the borderlands was a 22nd century D4. And then there's the Raptor class cruiser which looks more like the later Klingon ships than anything else we ever saw (D6?) and the big four-gun bird of prey that is somehow large enough to have its own shuttlebay (D2, mighty duck class?)
Indeed.
Actually, they may have meant this literally. All the "canon violations" people keep pointing out aren't violations at all, because to the writers, there's no such thing as VISUAL canon, only story canon.The producers have said, "Trust us, when it seems like we're breaking canon we aren't...it will all make sense".
So...let's see. Will they keep their word, or is it just to keep you watching 'til you forget they said it?
I would prefer to trust the production teamThe producers have said, "Trust us, when it seems like we're breaking canon we aren't...it will all make sense".
So...let's see. Will they keep their word, or is it just to keep you watching 'til you forget they said it?
When you hear the production team talk on After Trek they really do seem to take Canon seriously and want to avoid so called violations. I haven't seen anything crazy (except I still don't like so much cloaking) - but I have faith in the writers from the way they say "give us a chance to see it through".
I'm thinking "Post War" there could be some shakeups in star fleet. Some new policies, new uniforms, a new direction in avoiding the mistakes of past. That would make complete sense.
I'm thinking "Post War" there could be some shakeups in star fleet. Some new policies, new uniforms, a new direction in avoiding the mistakes of past. That would make complete sense.
For me it is less "why doesn't Discovery fit into continuity?" and more "has any series ever fit and if not why should we start expecting it now?"
Trek has never had strong continuity and anyone arguing the case that this somehow invalidates Discovery either doesn't know the franchise all that well or must concede that the same argument invalidates everything since "The Cage"
I honestly suspect that any episode of any iteration of trek made in the past fifty years probably contains some details or thematic elements which don't match up if we look closely enough. TOS was so self contradictory it's laughable to take as the basis for a well defined universe and nothing since has particularly done much to change that except in specific plot driven instances or as broad nods. We've had fifty years of people arguing about this stuff, it didn't start the day "Vulcan Hello" aired, on the contrary it's pretty much what has kept this site going over a decade without any new trek series.
There's also no such thing as a "canon violation".....
Trek has never had strong continuity and anyone arguing the case that this somehow invalidates Discovery either doesn't know the franchise all that well or must concede that the same argument invalidates everything since "The Cage"
I honestly suspect that any episode of any iteration of trek made in the past fifty years probably contains some details or thematic elements which don't match up if we look closely enough. TOS was so self contradictory it's laughable to take as the basis for a well defined universe and nothing since has particularly done much to change that except in specific plot driven instances or as broad nods. We've had fifty years of people arguing about this stuff, it didn't start the day "Vulcan Hello" aired, on the contrary it's pretty much what has kept this site going over a decade without any new trek series.
There's also no such thing as a "canon violation".....
You can't superglue show creators onto 50 years of already inconsistent backstory and force them to make it work for a few superfans. They do a good job and still keep it interesting. For some people Trek has become a religious matter. Monks in the 7th century arguing over when to observe Easter probably sounded a lot like this.
I don't even think it's about superfans, on the contrary I suspect most "superfans" will typically have long since realised the whole thing is a house of cards that collapsed the very moment it was built, they love it anyway either in spite of the issues or precisely because of them.
People complaining about "canon violations" are more often than not people who simply haven't realised that what they see as continuity is pretty superficial smoke and mirrors that lasts about two seconds under even the most cursory scrutiny.
it gives you oxygen?
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