Kirk's advanced combat training (and teaching the academy class, according to pre-release info) made him a logical choice to lead the away team to disable the drill. Making him 1st officer is a bit of a stretch, but it doesn't bother me.
How did you get past NuKirk's rise to command?
- Thread starter HigHurtenflurst
- Start date
I guess Pike thought his brashness and willigness to think outside the box made him a natural foil for the logical Spock.
The Coast Guard might arrest Manson if he was out on the high seas.
It wasn't if Kirk was doing that must investigating. Leighton had done the hard work. Kirk just used his contacts to check it out.
Kirk was also a go-to Captain. He had to have at least rudiments of investigative qualities. Starfleet sent him to the Horta planet, to Deneva, to the Cloud City to fix problems.
What contacts? He did a comparison of Kodos and Karidian using the computer and seduced Lenore. Basically he was waiting for Karidian to slip up. Then it turns out Lenore was offing the witnesses.
Kodos was on Planet Q not open space. Kirk could have turned him and his evidence over to the authorities there. Instead he invites him on board which leads to an attempt on Riley's life and a gun wielding lunatic (who isn't Kodos) threatening a theatre full of people. Kirk's an idiot and no Sherlock Holmes.
Those missions are about scientific investigation (unknown creatures, mass insanity) and transporting a needed element to stop a plague.(the success of which is threatened by class warfare/terrorism)
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Kirks access to Starfleet databases (as useless as they were in the Kodos case) is part of his repertoire of resources.
Starfleet sent Kirk to the Horta planet to get the mines running. Not as Kirk pointed out to Spock to do scientific investigation.
He was sent there to solve a problem. If part of that involved science, then he had the ship for it. But it could have involved finding Klingon saboteurs, corrupt administrators, faulty equipment, monsters or Harry Mudd then Kirk was sent to solve the problem no matter what. That was part of his job.
Kirk didn't come to the planet and send messages to Starfleet asking what are your orders, people are disappearing here. Do you want to send in Interpol or Sherlock Holmes in. Clearly I am just a soldier this isn't in my jurisdiction ?
Do you really think that Starfleet was the only source for the files on Kodos and Karidian?
Nope. The monster angle is there from the start.
Vanderberg then describes the events that lead to the distress call.Devil In the Dark said:
His job is to find the creature. There's no crime. It's straight forward bug hunt. ( till the monster proves to be sentient)
Answering distress calls from Federation worlds and outposts are his jurisdiction. Tracking down civilian mass murderers from 20 years ago based on an old friend's suspicions, not so much.
Uh, where did I say Kirk needs to check in with Starfleet before he does anything?
Well, seeing as how Kodos was a government official, even if the case was cold, if there was new evidence, Kirk could be obligated to bring him in for questioning.
There is little reference to other investigative branches of the Federation, so I would be curious as to what authority Kirk could appeal to, especially once someone was murdered.
There is little reference to other investigative branches of the Federation, so I would be curious as to what authority Kirk could appeal to, especially once someone was murdered.
Do Kirk asks questions about the crimes like a detective would.
Kirk goes along to suggest other suspects (volcanic activity), speaks to witnesses and gets his CMO to perform an autopsy.
Sounds like an investigation to me. He doesn't send down teams to blast monsters as soon as he arrives.
Spock didn't pipe up and say this sounds like a job for Space NCIS.
While I don't think its really Kirks job to do criminal investigations once he's given a mission by Starfleet then its his job to do whatever to investigate because they're on the frontier, way out of the normal arm of the law.
Kirk took the Kodos case because Leighton basically forced him to. And he was at the right place at the right time due to Lenore and Leighton's manipulations. But I'm saying he does that sort of thing as a part of his job. And as he pointed out he was stretching Starfleet rules not breaking them when he gave the theatre company a lift.
I simply regarded his promotion as stupid and left it at that, preferring to ignore it for sequels. It looked like STID was going to actually address the absurdity of it and make something out of it, but it got brushed aside so quickly I was again annoyed.
Now that they're supposed to start their five year mission with STXIII, I'm just going to go in on that one as a standalone adventure like any TOS episode.
Now that they're supposed to start their five year mission with STXIII, I'm just going to go in on that one as a standalone adventure like any TOS episode.
Star Fleet in this version seems to follow a merit system. Enterprise's main officers were replaced quickly by Pike to the younger cadets and newer officers like Chekov and Sulu. Uhura replaced the communications officer because she could understand Romulan and Klingon to a high level. Kirk gets the job of Second officer quickly after correctly assessing the situation for what it is before arriving at Vulcan, evading (barey) trap Nero has there, allowing them minute more to live and Nero a chance to recognize the starship as the one Spock is usually on. After that its a matter of the chain of command until Kirk is commanding officer. If Star Fleet works on merit, than Kirk proved capable of being captain of a new starship and saved the day (being the CO gives you credit for completing the mission).
A year later, while being dressed down for lying about breaking the Prime Directive, we learn that Captain Kirk has not lost a single crew member in the last year of service. Something that seems rather noteworthy considering how many officers and crewmen Kirk use to lose ever season of TOS. After fighting Marcus and Khan, Kirk is proven to be the right man to command USS Enterprise, so Star Fleet gives it a refit and sends him on a five year mission...something no one has done before.
Now...in 2260, USS Enterprise is two years old, and starting its first Five Year Mission. I can almost imagine Kirk commanding two successful Five Year Missions on Enterprise in this timeline, ending with a promotion to Rear Admiral in or after 2270, when Enterprise gets major refit and a new captain. It fate behaves itself, V'Ger arrives, and Admiral Kirk saves Earth with the loss of Captain Decker. Kirk commands Enterprise as Admiral like Pike was going to do prior to his death in 2259. Enterprise does its third Five Year Mission under Kirk. Spock gets promoted to Captain and takes over Enterprise. Enterprise might do a fourth Five Year Mission, this one under Spock, or she is assigned other tasks and eventually assigned as a training cruiser to the Academy were Spock and others of the old crew teach. After this, who knows. Just that that Whale Probe is still coming toward Earth by 2286.
A year later, while being dressed down for lying about breaking the Prime Directive, we learn that Captain Kirk has not lost a single crew member in the last year of service. Something that seems rather noteworthy considering how many officers and crewmen Kirk use to lose ever season of TOS. After fighting Marcus and Khan, Kirk is proven to be the right man to command USS Enterprise, so Star Fleet gives it a refit and sends him on a five year mission...something no one has done before.
Now...in 2260, USS Enterprise is two years old, and starting its first Five Year Mission. I can almost imagine Kirk commanding two successful Five Year Missions on Enterprise in this timeline, ending with a promotion to Rear Admiral in or after 2270, when Enterprise gets major refit and a new captain. It fate behaves itself, V'Ger arrives, and Admiral Kirk saves Earth with the loss of Captain Decker. Kirk commands Enterprise as Admiral like Pike was going to do prior to his death in 2259. Enterprise does its third Five Year Mission under Kirk. Spock gets promoted to Captain and takes over Enterprise. Enterprise might do a fourth Five Year Mission, this one under Spock, or she is assigned other tasks and eventually assigned as a training cruiser to the Academy were Spock and others of the old crew teach. After this, who knows. Just that that Whale Probe is still coming toward Earth by 2286.
I believe that so many Starfleet officers (including boatloads of cadets) were killed during the destruction of Vulcan, Starfleet had to improvise.
Would losing seven ships really matter that much, though? The "fleet" went to Laurentius, supposedly to do something about a mysterious menace that had wiped out 47 Klingon ships. The implication is that Starfleet is much bigger than 47 ships. And cadets seem to be an inexhaustible resource - see how full the hall is again at the closing scene (indeed, it seems there were zero casualties from the Vulcan action!)...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
We don't know what happened in the Laurentian system and I got the feeling it was only upperclassmen that were called to active duty for the crisis at Vulcan.
Why did Vulcan send out a distress call anyway? They're the capital planet of a founding Federation member. Don't they have plenty of infrastructure of their own?
Well, I do know that andorians don't respond to distress calls on a Tuesday. And neither do Scotty and Keenser.
Of course it's an investigation, but not a criminal investigation. No where have I said investigation isn't part of Kirk or Starfleet's job. They're explorers and scientists. They investigate all type of things. As you noted the questions are in the realm of scientific reasons not criminal.
Does what? Investigate 20 year old mass murders because his old friend asked him, because he thinks he spotted the murder? ( who's allegedly dead!) Pretty sure those are extraordinary circumstances and not part of Kirk's usual duties.
What do you think Kirk's usual duties are? Plenty of times the Enterprise has been used to arrest and catch criminals, corrupt officials, hippies, mad scientists. Surely arresting someone like Kodos would be important to the Federation. Even though WW2 is over 60 years away I'm sure that people are still interested in tracking down ex-Nazi Concentration Camp Generals.
Special military forces have been used for years to track down ex-military dictators and mass-murderers in hiding. Even civilian ones.
I guess we can assume Narada would have toasted any Vulcan perimeter defense ships.
Bob Orci stated on trekmovie that the distress call was faked by Narada (can't remember if that was in the novelization or not).
Actually, it seems quite clear that Vulcan never sent any distress calls.
Remember what that "call" was about? Seismic disturbances. Yet those would supposedly be caused by Nero's drill. But Nero wasn't drilling when the "call" was received by Starfleet; his drill comes as shocking news to Amanda Grayson several scenes later as she rushes to the balcony of the Sarek condo.
Now, what does the drill do, apart from creating (plot) holes? It jams communications. It's the one weapon that Nero has (apart from the fragmenting missiles and a fanatical devotion to... Well, you know how the joke goes. But Nero also seems to believe strongly in the merits of inquisition). It sounds likely that Nero would use that weapon: first create a diversion that makes most of Starfleet go away, then create a diversion that sends the rest of Starfleet to rush into a trap unawares. Both of these without firing a shot (because he doesn't have a warship) - but by firing a series of fake messages and jamming all real ones.
As for "Vulcan perimeter defense ships", there may well have been large Starfleet starships present. We see the wreckage of a ship apparently named Mayflower, but no such ship was launched from Earth: we heard the list of names for the ships launched, and it already covers all the seven ships (not counting the Enterprise that launched from Earth. It might of course be that one of the named ships was sent elsewhere and the Mayflower sent to Vulcan in her place, but why would Starfleet do such a thing?
Timo Saloniemi
Remember what that "call" was about? Seismic disturbances. Yet those would supposedly be caused by Nero's drill. But Nero wasn't drilling when the "call" was received by Starfleet; his drill comes as shocking news to Amanda Grayson several scenes later as she rushes to the balcony of the Sarek condo.
Now, what does the drill do, apart from creating (plot) holes? It jams communications. It's the one weapon that Nero has (apart from the fragmenting missiles and a fanatical devotion to... Well, you know how the joke goes. But Nero also seems to believe strongly in the merits of inquisition). It sounds likely that Nero would use that weapon: first create a diversion that makes most of Starfleet go away, then create a diversion that sends the rest of Starfleet to rush into a trap unawares. Both of these without firing a shot (because he doesn't have a warship) - but by firing a series of fake messages and jamming all real ones.
As for "Vulcan perimeter defense ships", there may well have been large Starfleet starships present. We see the wreckage of a ship apparently named Mayflower, but no such ship was launched from Earth: we heard the list of names for the ships launched, and it already covers all the seven ships (not counting the Enterprise that launched from Earth. It might of course be that one of the named ships was sent elsewhere and the Mayflower sent to Vulcan in her place, but why would Starfleet do such a thing?
Timo Saloniemi
Creative editing.
