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HOW did Edith delay WWII?

So by 2063 Earth is an empty desolate place but has 70% water. The Vulcan decide to come along and colonise it, calling it New Vulcan. With their advanced technology the radiation is cleaned up and Vulcanians find a colder but new world with vast resources and rule the quadrant with V'Las as a dictator/puppet of the Romulans.
Either that or the dolphins and blue whales inherit the earth.
 
^ Earth is closer to Vulcan, it is in their domain if they came across and found no sentient 'Vulcanoid' life here (due to mass genocide. complete annihilation ) but plenty of resources. Why not stick a flag?
 
Maybe the atomic war in the 40s causes the Humpback Regime to die out and the alien probe shows up 50ish years sooner and destroys the place looking for them.
 
Nyotarules said:
^ Earth is closer to Vulcan, it is in their domain if they came across and found no sentient 'Vulcanoid' life here (due to mass genocide. complete annihilation ) but plenty of resources. Why not stick a flag?
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The Romulans claimed Alpha Centauri in DS9 Future Tense, that's only 4.3 lightyears from Earth.

Pissing distance.
 
Marsden said:
Maybe it wasn't as completely different as Kirk and the landing party assumed, but the communications frequencies were different and so they assumed everything was gone. We really had no evidence that the Federation "ceased to exist" in the episode.
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That the Federation ceased to exist was certainly the implication in the episode (and the intention of the writer) but the onscreen material has to be taken on its own merits, in relation to the rest of the series canon.

FWIW, I have no doubt that the Guardian Of Forever manipulated Kirk & pals to force them into the past, by making them think that their own history was at risk - all it took was a simple dampening field.
 
Mytran said:
That the Federation ceased to exist was certainly the implication in the episode (and the intention of the writer) but the onscreen material has to be taken on its own merits, in relation to the rest of the series canon.

FWIW, I have no doubt that the Guardian Of Forever manipulated Kirk & pals to force them into the past, by making them think that their own history was at risk - all it took was a simple dampening field.
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Agreed.

It's almost like calling someone and they don't answer the phone and concluding their house has burned down.
 
Mytran said:
That the Federation ceased to exist was certainly the implication in the episode (and the intention of the writer) but the onscreen material has to be taken on its own merits, in relation to the rest of the series canon.

FWIW, I have no doubt that the Guardian Of Forever manipulated Kirk & pals to force them into the past, by making them think that their own history was at risk - all it took was a simple dampening field.
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Marsden said:
Agreed.

It's almost like calling someone and they don't answer the phone and concluding their house has burned down.
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Yes.Earth is there. But there is no Enterprise in orbit around the Guardian planet. As far as we know there is a "Greater Galactic Reich" operating starships all over the quadrant.

COTEOF said:
KIRK: Earth's not there. At least, not the Earth we know. We're totally alone.

Captain's log, no stardate. For us, time does not exist. McCoy, back somewhere in the past, has effected a change in the course of time. All Earth history has been changed. There is no starship Enterprise. We have only one chance. We have asked the Guardian to show us Earth's history again. Spock and I will go back into time ourselves and attempt to set right what ever it was that McCoy changed.
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Nerys Myk said:
Yes.Earth is there. But there is no Enterprise in orbit around the Guardian planet. As far as we know there is a "Greater Galactic Reich" operating starships all over the quadrant.
KIRK: Earth's not there. At least, not the Earth we know. We're totally alone.
(Camera pan up to any empty night sky)
Captain's log, no stardate. For us, time does not exist. McCoy, back somewhere in the past, has effected a change in the course of time. All Earth history has been changed. There is no starship Enterprise. We have only one chance. We have asked the Guardian to show us Earth's history again. Spock and I will go back into time ourselves and attempt to set right what ever it was that McCoy changed.
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I would be interested in how Kirk magically knows all this stuff for certain - all can say with authority is that he can't contact the Enterprise. The rest is mere supposition.
 
It's funny, though, that many of the first season episodes were written in past tense, specifically Naked Time and Enemy Within, for example. It was meant to be a dramatic reenactment of the Enterprise's five years of serving the Federation under Kirk, before something changed, what was never defined. It astounds me how so many people latched on to that 5 year mission line as "it's assigned to do this for five years" rather than it simply lasted five years. Quite possibly the Enterprise was destroyed at the end and that's why is didn't have a six year mission.

This particular log is a tough one though, because it couldn't have been independently verified afterwards that the Federation ceased to exist as we know it. Would he have called command after it was over and asked them if they were gone but came back? They would not have experienced any disruption from their perspective.
 
Mytran said:
I would be interested in how Kirk magically knows all this stuff for certain - all can say with authority is that he can't contact the Enterprise. The rest is mere supposition.
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The Guardian did say, "Your vessel, your beginning, all that you knew is gone." What would you make of that statement?
 
Spock recorded all of human history with his tricorder.

If Planet Nazi ended in a Utopia similar to the Federation, maybe they were dicks to upend history again, and even if earth fell, that would only mean that the Romulans would have made a better go at their allotment of fate this time.

It's more likely that they wanted the universe to be familiar, than that they wanted he best possible universe. Half way through the Dominion war, when it looked like they were losing how many Federation Time-Commandoes backstepped to a point where the war could be averted or won early?

In all honestly, after they had destroyed the Earth, the Dominion would have probably been fairly decent masters of the universe.
 
scotpens said:
The Guardian did say, "Your vessel, your beginning, all that you knew is gone." What would you make of that statement?
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The Guardian is an unknown quantity, with its own motivations so I wouldn't take anything it says too literally.
It also needs to ensure that certain predestination paradoxes come to pass, especially those that it is personally involved with. Without McCoy on one side of the road and Kirk escorting Edith on the other (leading to her death), the GOF's timeline would not exist in the same way and it knows that. Trapping our protagonists in a dampening field (or even a temporal bubble if need be) and feeding them enough half-truths to get Kirk & Spock to leap into the 1930s is childsplay for the GOF.
 
The real question here is why it never occurred to any of them to just bring Edith back to the future with them instead of thinking her death was the only way to fix things.

Of course, I never found it believable that Kirk could fall SO deeply in love with a woman he knew for only a few days...
 
Anwar said:
The real question here is why it never occurred to any of them to just bring Edith back to the future with them
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The Guardian probably wouldn't allow it.

The reason Kirk, Spock and McCoy were allowed to return to the future via the Guardian is because that's how they got to the past to begin with. Edith was *native* to that time period, therefore the Guardian would not let her leave it.
 
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