Likely she was an isolationist, an "Amercia firster" who almost caused the destruction of the world. You know like Donald Trump.
HOW did Edith delay WWII?
- Thread starter trekkist
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Has America sold parts of America to other countries?
The Lousiana Purchase and Alaska says that the opposite used to be common.
Foreign lands have become American lands, because of an exchange of currency, why the hell not a reverse?
What would be a fair price for Hawaii in 1936?
Those were purchases, not sales.
Even if the U.S. had been willing to give up Hawaii, I can't see a handover happening on such short notice with so much vested interest there. Any formal handing over likely would have involved the U.S. retaining the naval facilities.
Giving up Hawaii would have been out of the question, but I could maybe see the U.S. not moving the Pacific Fleet to Pearl Harbor from San Diego in 1941, under the influence of a pacifist movement. Anything that causes there to be no Attack on Pearl Harbor (in the absence of any other aggression against the U.S.) keeps the U.S. out of the War, at least until after 1941.
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I said "Why not the reverse" a couple lines down.
And the bit not clear enough for you, I made it clearer almost ten minutes ago with an edit.
The whole premise still makes little sense. Who are we selling it to? How is it in our interests?
You can figure out the buyer, after you've calculated a sale price.
But certainly the Japanese at that point were a possibility Mant!.
How can the Japanese, the Italians or even the Germans wage war if they have to use 1/2 their military to secure an unruly purchase properly?
Actually if Hitler was offered Hawaii at half market value, that would totally block Hirohito's advance into the pacific.
But certainly the Japanese at that point were a possibility Mant!.
How can the Japanese, the Italians or even the Germans wage war if they have to use 1/2 their military to secure an unruly purchase properly?
Actually if Hitler was offered Hawaii at half market value, that would totally block Hirohito's advance into the pacific.
Sorry to be redundant, I posted this twice in the earlier thread, but San Pedro/Long Beach.
Nah, Japan cared little about islands that far east. What they wanted was a supply line to resources in the East Indies.
Oops. Was it San Pedro and not San Diego? Wikipedia says San Diego; perhaps it should be fixed.
Ah, well. Both had fleet bases, but the part that everyone thinks of with Pearl Harbor, and the part the Japanese cared about, the battle line and the carriers, were at Pedro/Long Beach. The light cruisers and destroyers of the Battle Force were at San Diego. The heavy cruisers of the Scouting Force were also at Pedro. San Pedro and Long Beach were basically one continuous anchorage, I think the battleships were on the Long Beach end by the end of the '30s.
America had to respond to any comparable attack by declaring war.
The December 7 attack, if it happened, was either much greater, toward a different target, or much smaller.
Peace means less to no offensive forces.
Distributionally if US defensive aspects were doubled as their offensive capabilities were halved, that would mean that the Japanese to still succeed as well as they did would then have to have attacked with double the numbers they did in our timeline.
I maybe be talking vaguely about allocating the 1930s US Defence Budget, but I'm really thinking about the board game Risk. Reinforce your borders because every one else is scary, or send 5 cannons into central Europe because you're feeling lucky, leaving the homeland open to a right ####ing.
The December 7 attack, if it happened, was either much greater, toward a different target, or much smaller.
Peace means less to no offensive forces.
Distributionally if US defensive aspects were doubled as their offensive capabilities were halved, that would mean that the Japanese to still succeed as well as they did would then have to have attacked with double the numbers they did in our timeline.
I maybe be talking vaguely about allocating the 1930s US Defence Budget, but I'm really thinking about the board game Risk. Reinforce your borders because every one else is scary, or send 5 cannons into central Europe because you're feeling lucky, leaving the homeland open to a right ####ing.
That's true, the only way they can be killed is traffic accidents!
Edith had a previous relationship that went bad, before she ever met Kirk. She dumped the guy because he was too fat. The last thing she said to him was, "You can't have your cake and Edith too".
That's horribly punny. 
Historically, one Senator (Montana) voted against Roosevelt's war resolution. But after Keeler worked her verbal magic a majority voted no, and instead the Japanese Prime Minister received a rather harshly worded diplomatic note.
A few months later, Roosevelt invites Adolf Hitler to the White House for a "beer summit."
A few months later, Roosevelt invites Adolf Hitler to the White House for a "beer summit."
Edith had a hard-on for Space.
Lindbergh (locally) or Von Braun (internationally) would have lead her straight to the rest of the Nazi Party mid thirties, before Poland, and close international co-operation between Germany and American to make a moon shot before 1950.
Close ties like that, and Japan's need to be a dick at America half a decade later, would have been vetoed by Dolphy.
Lindbergh (locally) or Von Braun (internationally) would have lead her straight to the rest of the Nazi Party mid thirties, before Poland, and close international co-operation between Germany and American to make a moon shot before 1950.
Close ties like that, and Japan's need to be a dick at America half a decade later, would have been vetoed by Dolphy.
Pearl Harbor was what got the declaration of war, but the pacifist movement would also have to overcome involvement the European/Atlantic war. The US was basically already fighting an undeclared war in the Atlantic in 1941, because FDR and his military leaders had concluded (a) they couldn't rule out eventually having to go to war with Germany and (b) if they did, it would be all but impossible to win if Britain had been knocked out (the Plan Dog memo, later seen in the wartime Germany First strategy). So in addition to supplying the UK with massive amounts of armaments and war materiel, US forces were actively assisting them in the Atlantic, officially and unofficially. US warships were attacked and sunk by U-boats in October '41. It's tough to avoid a war that way, even tougher than in 1916 when it couldn't be avoided.
But if you start in '36 it's possible to imagine a pacifist movement emerging that is both pro-New Deal and anti-intervention, as opposed to the isolationist Robert Taft Republican wing who were also strongly anti-New Deal and anti-FDR. A sort of "let's take care of our own first" position. I don't think FDR would ever have turned against intervention, but isolationist gains in Congress in '36 and '38 could have substantially set back US military spending, and if FDR had to face an isolationist opponent in '40 rather than Willkie, he may have had to give ground on aiding Britain and pressuring Japan.
Which sort of makes Keeler -- or at least her position -- look less rosy, as TOSalltheway said above. Let's take care of the needy here, but those poor SOB's in Spain, or Poland, or Belgium etc, well, tough luck for them.
A follow-up, so it's not just my word for it: From the U.S. Navy Directory, Nov. 1940:
But if you start in '36 it's possible to imagine a pacifist movement emerging that is both pro-New Deal and anti-intervention, as opposed to the isolationist Robert Taft Republican wing who were also strongly anti-New Deal and anti-FDR. A sort of "let's take care of our own first" position. I don't think FDR would ever have turned against intervention, but isolationist gains in Congress in '36 and '38 could have substantially set back US military spending, and if FDR had to face an isolationist opponent in '40 rather than Willkie, he may have had to give ground on aiding Britain and pressuring Japan.
Which sort of makes Keeler -- or at least her position -- look less rosy, as TOSalltheway said above. Let's take care of the needy here, but those poor SOB's in Spain, or Poland, or Belgium etc, well, tough luck for them.
A follow-up, so it's not just my word for it: From the U.S. Navy Directory, Nov. 1940:
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Great post. And that's the sort of citation that's desirable to correct Wikipedia (for those who might be so inclined).Pearl Harbor was what got the declaration of war, but the pacifist movement would also have to overcome involvement the European/Atlantic war. The US was basically already fighting an undeclared war in the Atlantic in 1941, because FDR and his military leaders had concluded (a) they couldn't rule out eventually having to go to war with Germany and (b) if they did, it would be all but impossible to win if Britain had been knocked out (the Plan Dog memo, later seen in the wartime Germany First strategy). So in addition to supplying the UK with massive amounts of armaments and war materiel, US forces were actively assisting them in the Atlantic, officially and unofficially. US warships were attacked and sunk by U-boats in October '41. It's tough to avoid a war that way, even tougher than in 1916 when it couldn't be avoided.
But if you start in '36 it's possible to imagine a pacifist movement emerging that is both pro-New Deal and anti-intervention, as opposed to the isolationist Robert Taft Republican wing who were also strongly anti-New Deal and anti-FDR. A sort of "let's take care of our own first" position. I don't think FDR would ever have turned against intervention, but isolationist gains in Congress in '36 and '38 could have substantially set back US military spending, and if FDR had to face an isolationist opponent in '40 rather than Willkie, he may have had to give ground on aiding Britain and pressuring Japan.
Which sort of makes Keeler -- or at least her position -- look less rosy, as TOSalltheway said above. Let's take care of the needy here, but those poor SOB's in Spain, or Poland, or Belgium etc, well, tough luck for them.
A follow-up, so it's not just my word for it: From the U.S. Navy Directory, Nov. 1940:
