How did Cirroc Lofton get away with it?

[Saito S]

I really enjoyed the sort of inversion of roles with him and Nog - Nog was the one that joined Starfleet, and Jake ended up in a civilian job. I think lesser writers would've taken the more expected road, and had Jake follow in his dad's footsteps.

This. While I might join Starfleet if 24th-century Trek were real life, it was nice to be reminded that not everyone is going to want to pursue that kind of life. Jake had his own path he had to follow, and having Nog - the Ferengi kid whom Ben Sisko once looked at as a bad influence for his son - become a dedicated Starfleet officer was a brilliant creative choice.

One thing in general I liked the most about DS9 was that it was about different families and relationships. O'Brien's family (well O'Brien was cool, but his wife was a *itch and his daughter was a brat.), Ben Sisko, Grandpa Sisko, and Jake. The Ferengi family of Quark, Nog, Rom, Moogie and Zek. (I loved the Ferengi episodes)

50% Not being written as a Mary Sue

50% Double Standard.

Double standard? How do you figure? That might be a valid argument if the two characters had a LOT in common as far as how they were written, and then people were going around saying Jake was so much better, but they didn't. They had vastly different development, characterization, and - most of all - roles, especially early on in their respective shows (Jake's role being that of a kid trying to adjust to a difficult change in his life, and Wesley's being that of a wunderkid who somehow saves - or, worse yet, in "The Naked Now", thwarts - the crew of the flagship of the Federation). The characters have almost nothing in common beyond being a kid in a Trek series. Where's the double standard?

Jake was great BECAUSE he wasn't super-smart (or even super neat). We could smile with him as his quarters were a mess and he spent his days dating dabo girls and playing dom-jock (sp?). In the end, Jake was like us, observing the world of Star Trek and dreaming about it. He was a normal guy.

Yeah, this was one of the things that made him more likable (and is an example of why DS9's writing was so strong). I've KNOWN people who are a lot like Jake in real life. I've never met anyone who's even remotely similar to Wesley.

 

[PSGarak]

Yeah, this was one of the things that made him more likable (and is an example of why DS9's writing was so strong). I've KNOWN people who are a lot like Jake in real life. I've never met anyone who's even remotely similar to Wesley.

And if you did, you'd probably want to kick your foot up his posterior on principle alone. I've known people like Jake, too, and I liked them.

 

[TheGodBen]

I've never met anyone who's even remotely similar to Wesley.

I was like that as a teenager; intellectually superior to all the adults, extremely attractive to women, and somewhat god-like.

And if you did, you'd probably want to kick your foot up his posterior on principle alone.

So that's why people kept doing that to me?!

 

[PSGarak]

I've never met anyone who's even remotely similar to Wesley.

I was like that as a teenager; intellectually superior to all the adults, extremely attractive to women, and somewhat god-like.

And if you did, you'd probably want to kick your foot up his posterior on principle alone.

So that's why people kept doing that to me?!

Nice!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I liked Jake because he was 1) cool, 2) Not annoying, and 3) played by Kenny Lofton's nephew. (Really.)

 

[Kegg]

As the previous posters have said,

This is pretty much exactly why I like Jake.

I totally agree.

So do I.

But, er, sort of a one-sided discussion. There are aspects of Jake that make him if not a Mary Sue at least an author avatar (that he's an avid writer should tip one off about the DS9's staff ability to sympathise with him, and the story of the young girl who's an avid fan on the basis of a single book can be viewed as a clear fantasy of the writers).

Basically while he has that aspect in common with Wesley it's understated and not in a way that gets annoying. If he is a genius writer, well, we don't have extragalactic aliens shoving it down our throat.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Kegg--if he's an author avatar, that's not necessarily a bad thing. The Clerk in the Canterbury Tales was definitely an "author avatar" for Chaucer, though one I think he used to do some gentle poking fun at himself. To me it's kinda the same thing here--not a problem.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Jake wasn't as one dimensional- he got to show a lot of range, normal teenage range. On the Enterprise-it was just too stuffy, rigid.

The music we heard the most was classical or maybe jazz. The entertainment-classical plays, lectures..

On the station, you had weird, shady, interesting characters, the holosuites, all sorts of sights and sounds that brought out more character.


Jake even had a steady friend, which Wesely didn't have..just adults...

They actually tried to have Jake become a starfleet officer, but he changed directions and became a writer instead, and we got to follow along and see his interest in it.

 

[Freman]

I think Wesley gets a bum rap. I really didn't find him annoying past Season 1. In fact, I grew to like the character (who, like everyone else, I DID find annoying in the first season.)

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, it's like Neelix. Everyone says he's annoying but if they just watched the damn show they'd see that he wasn't.

 

[DevilEyes]

Yeah, it's like Neelix. Everyone says he's annoying but if they just watched the damn show they'd see that he wasn't.

I watch the damn show and I know he is.

 

[TheGodBen]

Yeah, it's like Neelix. Everyone says he's annoying but if they just watched the damn show they'd see that he wasn't.

I watched the damn show and he was annoying a lot of the time. Except when an episode focused on him and his character was treated seriously, in which case he was a surprisingly strong character. But that only happened once a season or so.

 

[Kelso]

Does anyone remember TVGuide naming Jake the worst dressed kid on TV?

IIRC, shortly after that they ditched the space pajamas and gave him some better clothes to wear.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Those clothes WERE awful...but it seemed like it was almost EVERY Federation civilian--at least, the humans. (Garak also did not get off to a good start either, but that changed when someone wised up and realized a tailor just CANNOT be that badly dressed.)

 

[iguana_tonante]

50% Not being written as a Mary Sue

50% Double Standard.

100% Bologna.

Does anyone remember TVGuide naming Jake the worst dressed kid on TV?

IIRC, shortly after that they ditched the space pajamas and gave him some better clothes to wear.

And I have Cirroc Lofton on tape saying that, as a healthy 15 years old boy surrounded by super-gorgeous ladies like Nana Visitor, Terry Farrell, Chase Masterson, etc in tight clothes, he had quite some problems keeping the Jake's Snake from making his presence shown. And sometimes, failed.

 

[Freman]

Yeah, it's like Neelix. Everyone says he's annoying but if they just watched the damn show they'd see that he wasn't.

Thing is, Neelix was supposed to be slightly annoying. It's obvious from the get go that he was designed to be that way.

His character never bothered me. I love Neelix!!!

 

[PSGarak]

I "watched the damn show", too, and he was annoying as Hell to me.

 

[Shazam!]

Yeah, it's like Neelix. Everyone says he's annoying but if they just watched the damn show they'd see that he wasn't.

Oh, he totally was. His face was annoying, so whenever he appeared in an episode he was annoying by default.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I think a lot of it was just screen time.

Jake seemed barely in it, and half of the time he was in it, he was used quite well. The other half, well... come on, his "I need to put my life in danger because I'm a WRITER!" got old pretty fast.

But because he wasn't the focus on the series, it's easier to overlook this. I remember John DeLancie saying something similar about Q in a DVD interview.

"The Marx Brothers only did two films that are actually terrific, but because they made so few, people love them all. Their fans are just a little too generous-I think I enjoy a bit of the same phenomenon"

Jake may experience a similar phenomenon that omnipresent Wesley, obviously, could not.

 

[Mr. Scott]

I really don't understand the real hatred against Wesley Crusher. I never minded him. And why shouldn't some

If I wrote TNG, Picard would of fell in love with Crusher, and Wesley would of been Picard's stepson. The episode where Picard needed a transplant and he and Wesley had a heart to heart with Wesley asking him why he never had children and then telling him he would of made a great father.

In the episode where Wesley was in hot water with the Academy for letting his team member get killed, I liked the scene where Beverly and Riker entered his dorm room to talk and comfort him.

Don't think Picard maybe pulled stings. No, Picard was too honest for that, but the Admirals sent the word down to not suspend the Crusher kid. Is this the last time we see him?

I think the actor who played Wesley is excellent. I loved "Stand by Me." He's abetter actor and as far as I know, a good guy.

Concerning DS9, the Jake character was good in that he was not that interested in a Starfleet career and he wanted to be a writer. Nog wanted to get out of the limited circumstances that he was in. Jake was a normal kid, not some wunderkind, as mentioned before.