How can Shatner be written into the film?

[Cary L. Brown]

Jack Bauer said:Just throw in a vague reference to the Shatnerverse novels about Kirk being resurrected some years previously.

It's not even necessary to say that.

The line need only be something like this:

SPOCK: "Captain James T. Kirk was, as you say, a hero. He's moved into the realm of legend, now. He overcame tremendous odds many times, and cheated death more times than I care to consider. His tendency to be declared dead, only to return in victory, is part of what has made him become legendary, especially to the younger generations.

"Yet legends such as his tend to distort the reality upon which they're based. You're young, and you feel uncertain about your future... you fear you may prove to be inadequate to the tasks you're preparing to embark upon. Would it surprise you to learn that Jim Kirk felt very much the same way once?

"Let me tell you about my friend Jim..."

 

[Vektor]

The only way I see it working is if the flashback portion of the film somehow explains Kirk's resurrection, but preferably not in a way that makes it the central theme of the entire movie. Something that seems purely incidental at the time but suddenly reveals itself at the end along with Shatner as Kirk, back from the dead. Only then do we realize the true connection between the past and present elements of the story. Old Kirk and old Spock ride off into the sunset, while their younger selves are primed and ready for the sequel.

I don't know exactly what the connection would be or how it would explain Kirk's return or how to make it a surprise, but it would be exactly the kind of deliciously convoluted, self-referential story we know these particular writers like to tell.

 

[Blob]

Yay! My first contribution to this site! I'll try not to tick anyone off... but no promises.

C.E. Evans said:
Personally, I would simply gloss over the events in "Generations" and begin with Kirk meeting Spock as they currently are at some sort of conference or whatever:

Hypothetical scene:
KIRK: Aren't you dead?

SPOCK: I believe we've both died a number of times in the past, Jim...

And that would simply be it myself. The subject would never be mentioned again. Leave it to the imagination of the audience to figure out how Kirk came back and just move forward with the movie or framing story...

If they are making this movie to fit right in with the already established continuity, then I'm all for it.

However IMHO, and I say this with great reluctance as I'm brand new here and don't know how popular/unpopular this idea is, I'm for the reboot idea. Not a reboot in the style of BSG or Tim Burton's "Planet of The Apes", but more like what "Casino Royale" was with the Bond films. A Reboot, but still feels very much like the Trek that we know and grew up with. Having The Shat and Nimoy playing their iconic parts would be just like having Judi Dench play M. Thus, you can have scenes with Kirk and Spock (Shat and Nimoy) talking about "their first mission together" and just about any setting you see fit.

Yeah, this idea probably should have it own Thread, but I'm just going to assume it's been discussed on here already.

 

[the quickening]

Abrams is simply trying to do damage control on a controversial situation. He has no intention of putting Shatner in this film and well he should not!!! If he is as intelligent as he appears, this is the best way to handle the situation. By stating that he and the writers are trying desperately to find a way to get Shatner in the film, he covers himself and the production. As he stated, unless done correctly, it would come off as damaging. Keeping Kirk out of this film is the best way to go!!!

 

[Freakness]

Zachary Smith said:

I always found it interesting that Guinan's "reflection" of herself that Picard encountered talked to him as though she knew him, even though Guinan entered and left the Nexus LOOOong before she ever MET Picrd or, in fact, before he was even born.

well, Guinan did first meet Picard centuries before he was born.

(i can't believe i'm defending that piece of shit Generations!)

 

[Zachary Smith]

Freakness said:

Zachary Smith said:

I always found it interesting that Guinan's "reflection" of herself that Picard encountered talked to him as though she knew him, even though Guinan entered and left the Nexus LOOOong before she ever MET Picrd or, in fact, before he was even born.

well, Guinan did first meet Picard centuries before he was born.

(i can't believe i'm defending that piece of shit Generations!)

Ah, indeed she did. I stand corrected. I'd forgotten about that particular episode. Nonetheless, she spoke to Picard in the Nexus with a familiarity that seemed far more intimate than the relationship in that episode would have indicated possible. The Guinan in the Nexus, frankly, spoke to Picard as though she was the contemporary of him at that point in time.

None of this would be relevant at all in any way if the stupid Picard of "Generations" would have had the half-sense necessary to leave the Nexus prior to the Romulan attack on the Amagosa Observatory, thereby preserving that station, sparing the lives of everyone killed there and at the same time taking the opportunity to have Soren arrested for trafficking in the illegal trilithium compound (or whatever the hell it was). If he'd left it even a bit earlier he could have even saved the life of his nephew from the fire. But then, whoever said Picard had a lick of sense anyhow? (GOD! How I hate "Generations"!!)

 

[DaveyNY]

My Opinion, based on gut feelings only....


The focal point of the movie IS the Resurrection of Kirk, Post-"GENERATIONS".


Something that Young Kirk & Spock encountered when they first met during the Pre-TOS years, (the discovery of this being the over-all major plot of the movie) will become the 'THING' that Old Spock needs to re-animate dead Kirk.

I also think that Old Spock and Young Spock will meet in the movie, though Young Spock won't realize it.



To me, this is the one Extremely Major Event that hasn't been dealt with properly by previous Trek producers in any Way, Shape or Form.


It's also something that a true Classic Trek Lover, like Abrams, Orci & Kurtzman have attested they are, who have been given the means and power to do so, would NOT be able to resist trying to fix.


I believe that The-New-Powers-That-Be, are blowing-smoke-up-our-arses, about Shatner NOT being in the movie to throw 'US' off the track of what They are actually planning.

 

[AC84]

Jack Bauer said:
Just throw in a vague reference to the Shatnerverse novels about Kirk being resurrected some years previously.

Considering how Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman are on record as saying they consider some novels canon, I wouldn't put it past them.

So far, I agree with the large number of fans saying the best way to bring Kirk back, post-Generations, is to ignore it for the most part by providing only a throw-away line. Let's face it, this movie is aimed at the general audience that wouldn't know or care about Generations. The fans wouldn't give a shit either as most consider the 7th Trek film a dud and would give their left nut or sell their soul to see William Shatner as Kirk again. Me included. The only reason Star Trek: Enterprise was lambasted was because the show was so horrible (for the most part) that the continuity errors were actually noticeable.

 

[Kegek]

To answer the original question:

Spock: Weren't you dead?

Kirk: Weren't you? (coy smile, wink)

Edit: Damn, I should have read the thread first, this has been done. But mine's shorter.

Anyone who really cares about the answer already has the Shatnerverse novels, and the rest of the audience doesn't need any further elaboration.

 

[AC84]

Exactly. I honestly don't know why J.J. Abrams is having such a hard time putting Shatner's Kirk into the screenplay if it's simply the death he's trying to get around. Since most of the film will revolve around the younger Kirk, what's the fuss? Although having obviously not read the script, it could be anything. Maybe the script works better with Nimoy's Spock talking about Kirk in the past tense narration-wise. Still, it would be awesome if Shatner made an appearance at the film's end as Kirk.

 

[duranduran]

Superman said:
Good way to go: find a creative way around GEN or ignore it completely (what I do with my own "personal canon")

Bad way to go: Ask the audience to believe that Kirk and Spock are fifteen years younger than they are courtesy of CGI de-aging.

What's the best story solution? As C.E. suggested, just have a line of dialogue acknowledging that Kirk was dead and Spock saved him.

Or even better, have the old Kirk and Spock part of the story take place on Earth a few days after he's been returned to life. No need to mention how it happened, just that Kirk is adjusting to being alive in a new century.

But even that's too dense story-wise.

I say just acknowledge it in passing and move on. Kirk's death in GEN was a huge mistake that should just be glossed over and forgotten anyway.

\S/

simple.

just have the nexus splinter into 2,reflect of itself and regenerate the whole planet including kirk.

who lives on the planet as a woodcutter and uses the com badge to hail a passing ship.

this could be done at the very start of the film in under 90 seconds.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Why not have Shatner play either young Kirk's dad, who comes to congratulate Kirk on his new assignment, or have him play an ambassador to Vulcan, as Kirk's grandfather, who befriends a Vulcan scientist or ambassador, who also happens to be Sarek's father, played by Nimoy? This works because as we've seen, Vulcans don't really age that much... hell, Spock still looked as good in TNG as he did in Star Trek VI. And it sure as hell wouldn't make much sense if you went from Spock in TUC to Spock flashing back to his memories as young Spock in Leonard Nimoy's present wrinkly old man form, to his role in TNG when he still looks like how he did in TUC.

 

[RookieBatman]

I thought that they had confirmed that Nimoy would be playing old Spock? Nonetheless, if Abrams really wants Shatner in there, I think granddady Kirk is the way to go. Heck, if they really wanted, they could still do a variation of your idea; just use the digital de-aging technology to make old Spock look younger (which will, in turn, make him look slightly different), and then he could double up as Spock's granddad. I wouldn't mind, but it probably would be a bit much.

 

[GornPirate]

Kelso said:
While on his deathbed, Spock hallucinates that Kirk is there with him.

Done.

Yeah if they are going to have Shatner in there this seems the most logical way to do it. We know Vulcans get very emotional when they die from old age so I could imagine Spock seeing Kirk there with him in his last moments. Spock would probably be talking about how life is more about the journey than the destination and that would lead to the story of how Spock and Kirk's journey began on the Enterprise.

 

[CoveTom]

I think they should simply reverse the dialogue in the scene from TWOK and have Spock, upon first seeing Kirk, say "aren't you dead?" and no further mention be made of it. The fans will take it as a wink and a nod to things previous, and everyone else will not care.

 

[Freakness]

i'm assuming that the Nimoy-Spock bits of the movie will be post-Nemesis, somehow dealing with his work on the Romulan-Vulcan reunification in the wake of the whole Shinzon debacle.

if that's the case, they could easily have Spock recreate Kirk in a holodeck in order to ask his advice or whatever, have a little chat as if he had never died...similar to what they did in the finale of Enterprise, though hopefully better executed than that was. that's really the only thing i can think of that doesn't cheat by bringing Kirk back to life out of the Nexus.

 

[Bad Atom]

Broccoli said:
How can he be written in? A bunch of different ways. With a pencil, pen, typed, Crayola, etc.

Sorry, when I read this I had the voice of Johnny from "Airplane" in my head.

 

[Triptacular]

An uncredited cameo... Have Shat (in Admiral's uniform) bump into Spock in a hallway at Starfleet, then say "Excuse me". Spock briefly glances at him, then says, "Jim?" Shat says, "Sorry?" like he didn't hear Spock. Spock says, "Excuse me Admiral, I've mistaken you for someone else." Shat says, "Ah, carry on" and continues down the hall.

Either that, or just let him do the voice of the ship's computer. (Sorry Majel.)

 

[Eddie Roth]

I think I really like the "don't explain it, just do it" way the best. And I think it would kind of work, too. Somehow he got resurrected and he's just back. It would be like seeing TWOK, missing out on TSFS, and in watching TVH realizing "Hey, wasn't Spock dead? Oh well, it's better with him alive, so let's move on with the whale story!"

That. Ooooooooor, now get this: After Kirk died, he missed him so much that he - using the now freely available 24th century technology - created a holodeck simulation of Kirk in which he'd live out the rest of his life, aging and all. I mean, after all, Vulcans do live so long that they come to regret seeing all their non-Vulcan friends die before them (Didn't Sarek even say that in TNG?). So the half-human, thus illogical, Spock retreats into this fantasy world where Kirk is still around whenever he feels like talking to him. While they do, they reminisce about their first mission, and ultimately, Spock realizes that Kirk lives in his memory and that therefore, he doesn't need a hologram. He then overcomes his holodeck addiction. The audience sighs and gets a little teary-eyed.

Hmm, I just realized that I'm only HALF joking with this idea.... Hey J.J. Abrams, if you read his post: If I get a screen credit and a modest $10,000, I won't sue if you use this!

 

[Cary L. Brown]

As much as I love Shatner as Kirk, and as much as I want whoever plays the young Jim Kirk in this movie to resemble Shatner as he was at that age... I really would rather not see Shatner in the film. I just don't see it as being a "value-added" thing to do for the movie.

The best way to honor Shatner's portrayal is to have the new actor play (without PARODY) the same character that Shatner played.