How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

[GalaxyX]

Paramount are still pieces of shit toward Star Trek. It's just that Paramount execs and Abrams&Co are on the same wavelength. So they don't have to dictate them as much as they had to dictate Berman&Co.

I'll admit I liked the two recent movies, and the casting really really helps forget the weak writing, but those two movies are only Star Trek by name.

I think Abrams Trek movies are good movies, but it's hard for me to see them as Trek movies because they're intellectually so out of sync with what I consider Trek. It should be considered just a good remake of Trek rather than canonically part of the same multiverse, and it certainly shouldn't stop the prime universe from ever being explored again. They should just be treated like a separate entity.

And this has what exactly to do with the DS9/B5 thing?

My original comment was to do with pointing out what dipshits Paramount were. To tell the guy who came in with the B5 concept, tell him to fuck off because his idea is shit, then come and underhandedly steal his entire framework of ideas, changing them just enough to not seem like an outright ripoff.

 

[Reverend]

^ I doubt that's quite how it went down.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

However, when it comes to an argument about respecting the wishes of the original author (implicit or otherwise) considering what Moore chose to do with the characters of L. Frank Baum and J. M. Barrie, I rather think he gave up the moral high ground in this instance.

Yup. J.K. Rowling's, too.

I just read about that. He must be on acid or something while listening to groups that believe Harry Potter is evil... And Mary Poppins is God..?

 

[Captain_Amasov]

To be fair to Moore, he has been burnt by both the comics and movie industries, so I can see why he'd be prickly. However, when it comes to an argument about respecting the wishes of the original author (implicit or otherwise) considering what Moore chose to do with the characters of L. Frank Baum and J. M. Barrie, I rather think he gave up the moral high ground in this instance.

Moore didn't seem too bitter (though there's still plenty to be had here) in this interview to be honest, and he even admits that's it's probably him being precious about it: http://youtu.be/EuBFd1rlWWA?t=14m11s

 

[Anwar]

However, when it comes to an argument about respecting the wishes of the original author (implicit or otherwise) considering what Moore chose to do with the characters of L. Frank Baum and J. M. Barrie, I rather think he gave up the moral high ground in this instance.

Yup. J.K. Rowling's, too.

I just read about that. He must be on acid or something while listening to groups that believe Harry Potter is evil... And Mary Poppins is God..?

He seems to dislike how Harry Potter is considered the modern symbol of British Kids' literature and so he set up a story where Harry was this deranged lunatic who ends up killed off by what Moore considered the proper, superior symbol of children's Literature.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Dislike is putting it mildly. He wrote it like how some religious types look at Harry...

 

[dub]

"Religious types." Sounds a bit derogatory.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I'm a "religious type," dub, but one that has no problem with Harry Potter.

 

[JarodRussell]

"Religious types." Sounds a bit derogatory.

It's not. Some types of religious people. People of some types of religion. Some religious types. A type of religion. Multiple types of religion. All types of religion. Some types of religion.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Hey! We don't take kahndly to your tahpes round'ere!

 

[Mister Spock]

He seems to dislike how Harry Potter is considered the modern symbol of British Kids' literature and so he set up a story where Harry was this deranged lunatic who ends up killed off by what Moore considered the proper, superior symbol of children's Literature.

But I found he comes across as quite snobbish about it. A part of me feels that he's probably not read any of Rowling's books and is just being a bit elitist.

 

[Hober Mallow]

He seems to dislike how Harry Potter is considered the modern symbol of British Kids' literature and so he set up a story where Harry was this deranged lunatic who ends up killed off by what Moore considered the proper, superior symbol of children's Literature.

But I found he comes across as quite snobbish about it. A part of me feels that he's probably not read any of Rowling's books and is just being a bit elitist.

Sorry, I actually have nothing to add to this topic, I'm just stuck on your username, dude. You joined a couple weeks ago? Seriously, no one actually took the name "Mister Spock" before now?

 

[Mister Spock]

Sorry, I actually have nothing to add to this topic, I'm just stuck on your username, dude. You joined a couple weeks ago? Seriously, no one actually took the name "Mister Spock" before now?

I'm just as surprised as you are!

 

[peteym5]

I have been a fan of Star Trek for many years and recently watched Babylon 5 all the way through for the first time recently. I can honestly say most of the similarities between DS9 and B5 were superficial and shallow. As you go deeper into each show you can see both handled things very different. DS9 made use of already established material from the prior 2 Star Trek shows. Babylon 5 had to use original material or barrow from other Science Fiction.

Some accuse The Dominion being similar to the Shadows, infiltrating governments, and making alliences. Both both shows used different methods.

Dominion Founders replaced and shape shifted as important government officials. Starfleet figured out countermeasures. Eventually Gul Dukat made a surprised alliance with the Dominion, joining forces with Cardassia. Dukat had a mental breakdown and Damar took over. Damar turned against the Dominion and they tried to eradicate the Cardassians. The Klingon, Romulan, and Federation forced the Dominion to surrender in the end.

The Shadows basically made an alliance with the Centarions. Got involved with a presidential assassination and the new president declaring mashal law and turning Earth into a dictatorship. Was revealed the Valons were using Earth and other alliances against the Shadows. Once Sheridan discovered what was going on, he told both races they want no part of their war and focused on restoring freedom on Earth.

Do not see how the events on one show has anything to do with the other. Both played out their story very different.

 

[Anwar]

And the idea of alien infiltrators who could shapeshift or manipulate...was around a lot longer than DS9 or B5.

 

[peteym5]

Good examples of Alien infiltrator in Live Action Science Fiction would be "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (1956), "The Invaders" (late 1960s) TV series. Even Star Trek The Next Generation did a short lived story arc in its first season, but concluded by the season finale.

The point is people were poking ripping claims at Deep Space Nine from Babylon 5. I say even though the series had Alien Infiltration story arcs, both played them out totally different. I apoligize I did not get into more detail for each show, but you got the ideal.

Deep Space Nine played out its infiltration in an early 4th season 2 part episode with the Changelings reaching Earth. However it was the fear of being taking over that the Changelings were using to disrupt the Federation instead directly taking over. The Klingons got infiltrated, General Martok replaced by a Changeling and convinced Gowron to invade Cardassia and splitting the Federation and Klingon alliance apart.

Babylon 5 had the Shadows getting involved with a coup and playing out the arc over several seasons. New President declares martial law and becomes a dictator. Sheridan and crew of B5 seen something is going on and rebelled. Playing into the rule "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." More people join B5 and restore Earth to its rightful elected government.

Writers of Star Trek Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5 both did a great job in telling the story in their own way. Neither really cloned the other. DS9 writers were even careful about making it more unique after B5 started to air. DS9 also continue to make use of Star Trek material like the Mirror Universe arc and create new amusing material like the Feringi Rules of Acquisition.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I see this situation as sort of like the fans who accused that movie about a guy who was cheating in the special olympics of ripping off South Park.

The South Park creators said "It's a pretty base, obvious idea. We don't think they ripped us off in any way". But then the makers of the movie, responding to the fans' accusations, investigated into whether South Park ripped them off because the idea had been in production since before the episode was aired.

The idea for a space opera on a space station with serialized arcs is a base, obvious idea that was a natural progression from existing space operas at the time. I can see how JMS might have raised an eyebrow at Paramount based on the timing, but since the shows didn't mimic each other much at all beyond the base premise, anything more than an eyebrow is 'The power of imagination'.

 

[Jan]

I see this situation as 20 years old and no longer of the slightest interest. Why does anybody still keep bringing it up?

Jan

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Because some science fiction fans feel the need to confirm the stereotypes.

Anyway it's not really any worse than going to a message board to dissect the minutia of specific episodes of a fifty year old television program and question the social realism of a universe filled with hot anatomically compatible aliens.

 

[Destructor]

To be fair to Moore, he has been burnt by both the comics and movie industries, so I can see why he'd be prickly. However, when it comes to an argument about respecting the wishes of the original author (implicit or otherwise) considering what Moore chose to do with the characters of L. Frank Baum and J. M. Barrie, I rather think he gave up the moral high ground in this instance.

Moore didn't seem too bitter (though there's still plenty to be had here) in this interview to be honest, and he even admits that's it's probably him being precious about it: http://youtu.be/EuBFd1rlWWA?t=14m11s

Everyone who personally knows Moore attests that he's incredibly affable. I think he makes a lot of sense in his interviews.