Spock's World says flat-out that T'Pau is Sarek's mother, and that when she dies, Amanda will become the next clan matriarch. There's no reason why T'Pau can't be both matriarch of the clan and a Vulcan politician in another capacity.
How are Sarek and T'Pau related?
- Thread starter Hando
- Start date
Well, yeah; that's because T'Rama is Sarek's mother in the ENT relaunch. I haven't read Spock's World so I can't give a citation there, but it came out 20 years before T'Rama existed.
Yes, but my point was that Memory Beta makes no mention of T'Pau being Sarek's mother in Spock's World, either, anywhere that I can find. You'd think if it were in SW, it would be mentioned somewhere.
Oh haha, I probably should have guessed that's what you meant; sorry about that.
No, it's fine.
The article on T'Pau is here. No mention of it there, even though that doesn't really prove anything.
I will review my copy of Spock's World, but at the very least it states that T'Pau is the clan matriarch, which means she's basically the head of the family.
The usual way this stuff works (anthropologically speaking) is that depending on whether the society is matrilineal or patrilineal, when a matriarch dies, either her eldest daughter would become matriarch or her eldest son's wife would become matriarch. Since Vulcan appears to be a patrilineal society, it makes sense that T'Pau is Sarek's mother and Amanda is next in line for the position. After her death, it would presumably pass to Spock's wife.
The usual way this stuff works (anthropologically speaking) is that depending on whether the society is matrilineal or patrilineal, when a matriarch dies, either her eldest daughter would become matriarch or her eldest son's wife would become matriarch. Since Vulcan appears to be a patrilineal society, it makes sense that T'Pau is Sarek's mother and Amanda is next in line for the position. After her death, it would presumably pass to Spock's wife.
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I think it's a big leap to assume T'Pau is Sarek's mother because she's the matriarch of their family. Their family is ancient and probably large, with possibly a loose definition of what constitutes a relative. Sarek and T'Pau could be 15th cousins for all we know.
I read the book a few months ago too, and T'Pau being even hinted at as Sarek's mother is something I'd have remembered. I think the issue here is interpreting matriarch to mean mother.
Cool beans! I will have to check it out. (In, like, ten years when I finally catch up on my Star Trek books.)
If related Sarek and T'Pau are likely distantly so.
It's not that big a leap. A matriarchy is a society where it's the women who have the ultimate authority. And Spock's World does state that after T'Pau's death, Amanda would be the next clan matriarch. Why would Amanda even be considered, if she were not Sarek's wife? If Sarek and T'Pau were only distantly related, surely there would be dozens of Vulcan women who would have a better claim on the position.
Personally, I love the idea of T'Pau being Sarek's mother. However, in "Spock's World" in Chapter "Vulcan: Seven" (p. 273 hardcover or p.342 softcover) T'Pau is talking to Sarek alone in her office and says "I do not think your parents would protest to much." She is speaking about who to send along with the embassy to Earth. Would T'Pau speak this way to Sarek if she really was Sarek's mother?
The novel "Sarek" is apparently the most direct source I have found.
According to Amanda: "Vulcan kinships are complicated, and somewhat differently structured than human families, she is something on the order of his eldest great-aunt." She also identifies the previous matriarch: T’Kar, who was barely alive/active at Amanda's wedding to Sarek.
Now if we take the statement that T'Pau is Sarek's great-aunt literally, this would mean, that T'Pau is either the sister of Solkar, Supek or of their wives. This however is a big no-no, as there is a too great age difference between Solkar and his wife, and T'Pau. The other possibility would make T'Pau T'rama's aunt, which their interaction does not show.
If she is not a sister, too close, then perhaps a first or second cousin?
On a side note in "Tower of Babel", T'Rama says both: "Our family has produced states-persons and diplomats for generations." and "My former employer T’Pau is also a member of Solkar and Skon’s clan."
The first statement made me wonder, is it a bad translation from Vulcan, did she became so ingrained into her husband's family, or perhaps, as her father was a diplomat too, do T'Rama and Skon already belong to the same clan.
Alas the second statement rules the last option out, or what do you think?
According to Amanda: "Vulcan kinships are complicated, and somewhat differently structured than human families, she is something on the order of his eldest great-aunt." She also identifies the previous matriarch: T’Kar, who was barely alive/active at Amanda's wedding to Sarek.
Now if we take the statement that T'Pau is Sarek's great-aunt literally, this would mean, that T'Pau is either the sister of Solkar, Supek or of their wives. This however is a big no-no, as there is a too great age difference between Solkar and his wife, and T'Pau. The other possibility would make T'Pau T'rama's aunt, which their interaction does not show.
If she is not a sister, too close, then perhaps a first or second cousin?
On a side note in "Tower of Babel", T'Rama says both: "Our family has produced states-persons and diplomats for generations." and "My former employer T’Pau is also a member of Solkar and Skon’s clan."
The first statement made me wonder, is it a bad translation from Vulcan, did she became so ingrained into her husband's family, or perhaps, as her father was a diplomat too, do T'Rama and Skon already belong to the same clan.
Alas the second statement rules the last option out, or what do you think?
This.
And also, I had the impression from Spock's World that T'Pau was choosing her successor, not that Amanda was automatically next in line.
But even if Amanda were next in line, that doesn't suggest T'Pau being Sarek's mother, just that Amanda is T'Pau's closest female relative - if that's even the case. T'Pau could just as easily be an aunt or cousin who had no closer relatives than Sarek.
You need to consider the context of her statement. When she said "our family," it was right after speaking of Ambassador Solkar, her father-in-law. So in that context, "our family" meant the family that both she and Solkar were members of, Solkar by birth and herself by marriage.
And a husband about his wife's family?
The moment somebody marries another, the families merge and become one, regardless of where one lives or with whom.
On T'Pau's relationship with Sarek, are we able to infer something from the fact in the mirror universe, Solkar died in 2063 already? Means Skon had most likely been conceived by that time, unless his mother went with in-vitro. Still, a T'Pau (mirror) managed to be born.
Or it can go the other way around. My aunt and her daughters consider themselves Bennetts even though they use my uncle-in-law's surname. Or at least they talk about themselves that way when they get together with other members of the Bennett clan. When you think about it, we all belong to at least two families -- our maternal and paternal families if we're single, and our spouses' maternal and paternal families if we're married. Which one you refer to as your family might well depend on context.
Of course it goes both ways. I just phrased my post in the context of Amanda's point of view.
