How about doing "The Cage" with Kahn involved?

[Mereope]

Sorry, I just don't want to see a rehash of any TOS episode, no matter how good. Not its hero, not its villain. I'm not completely committed to this position- a good script could change my mind. But revisiting old episodes would feel the same as trying to shoehorn the original actors into "mother of", "uncle of" roles: more like an alumni meeting of Star Trek, rather than going on new voyages.

It's a big galaxy, I want to be dazzled, not taken down memory lane.

 

[Jayson]

Sorry, I just don't want to see a rehash of any TOS episode, no matter how good. Not its hero, not its villain. I'm not completely committed to this position- a good script could change my mind. But revisiting old episodes would feel the same as trying to shoehorn the original actors into "mother of", "uncle of" roles: more like an alumni meeting of Star Trek, rather than going on new voyages.

It's a big galaxy, I want to be dazzled, not taken down memory lane.

I sort of see it as the oposite. I want to see familiar aliens and characters. To me the fun of this new Abramsuniverse is that you can take this things and twist them around and do new things with them. I would be dispointed if a movie focused on aliens of the week, partly because to me that type of story can be done in the Roddenberryverse. I want to see things that can only be explored in the Abramsverse. Let's see Khan discover Talo's or let's have a Klingon/Romulan war. Heck let's kill Chekov or Scotty if it makes the story better. You can't do these things in the old universe, partly do to canon but also because Berman was afraid to do these type of things.

Jason

 

[Captain Pike]

Another vote for no Khan ever.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

IF they bring back Khan (and I'm not saying they should -- but IF they do...) he should be an antogonist mid-way through the film, but become one of the heroes by the end.

Khan was not an "Evil" person in Space Seed -- he was simply driven and ambitious. He may had done some evil things in TWoK, but that was only after years of living on Ceti Alpha 6 (5?).

If they were ever to bring back Khan in a film they should make him someone who joins forces with Kirk at the end of the film to help Kirk and crew stop the "real" threat of the film.

Khan could start the film being the kind of guy he was at the beginning of Space Seed (an interesting man with an interesting story -- treated by the crew like a VIP), then half-way through the film he could become an antagonist/adversary to Kirk and crew (like towards the end of Space Seed), but by the end of the film he could join Kirk and the others to save the day -- perhaps even becoming Kirk's friend in the process.

Khan as Kirk's friend -- that would be interesting.

 

[JustKate]

^ "Driven and ambitious" is how you'd describe him? Really? He thought he was humanity's natural leader - a superior man who deserved to rule. I'd say that goes a bit beyond "ambitious." "Megalomanical" is the word that comes to my mind. You say tomato...

I still say no Khan. No. Somebody who hasn't been a villain twice, for the love of God.

 

[Praetor]

*Channeling comic book guy* Worst Idea EVER!

Got it in one.

No Khan. Ever. He's been the villain twice already. Twice. I thought this new Trek was supposed to be all fresh and stuff. Khan as a villain yet again - again! - wouldn't be fresh. It would be decomposed.

I agree. Isn't the whole point of what this movie did establishing a new timeline where they can do whatever they want? Granted, they should feel free to use "what worked" before again now, but I think there are lots of other themes and characters that can be made new without having to use Khan. Khan was after all the benchmark that caused many of the other Trek movies to mimic it and be so lackluster.

I'd hope for more creative, original ideas from these guys.

(Oh, I just noticed Greg Cox upthread. Now this man knows his Khan. )

 

[Greg Cox]

(Oh, I just noticed Greg Cox upthread. Now this man knows his Khan. )

You should see the Khan shrine in my office: the action figures, the Hallmark ornament, the TV Guide issue, a pewter replica of the Botany Bay . . . .

To be honest, I haven't made up my mind yet if I want to see Khan in the new movies.

 

[Praetor]

Say, Mr. Cox, I would like to see that.

(And your books = awesome, btw. Really. They were among the first Trek novels I read and enjoyed.)

I just don't see Khan carrying another movie on his own. It seems redundantly redundant. The only way I can see it working is if they can come up with a suitably unique angle - and then at some point it stops being the original character, doesn't it? I'd still prefer them breaking the movie mold.

 

[Nebula1400]

How about something completely original for a change? No Khan. No Borg. No Cage. No Spock's Brain.

Star Trek reenacted by muppets.

 

[Greg Cox]

Say, Mr. Cox, I would like to see that.

(And your books = awesome, btw. Really. They were among the first Trek novels I read and enjoyed.).

Thanks! I'm proud of those.

 

[Jayson]

*Channeling comic book guy* Worst Idea EVER!

Got it in one.

No Khan. Ever. He's been the villain twice already. Twice. I thought this new Trek was supposed to be all fresh and stuff. Khan as a villain yet again - again! - wouldn't be fresh. It would be decomposed.

I agree. Isn't the whole point of what this movie did establishing a new timeline where they can do whatever they want? Granted, they should feel free to use "what worked" before again now, but I think there are lots of other themes and characters that can be made new without having to use Khan. Khan was after all the benchmark that caused many of the other Trek movies to mimic it and be so lackluster.

I'd hope for more creative, original ideas from these guys.

(Oh, I just noticed Greg Cox upthread. Now this man knows his Khan. )

If they aren't going to use familiar elements then I don't see the point of creating a new universe. Why do stories that could be done in the old universe. I want to see new stories but new stories with old elements twisted around in different ways. That's the whole appeal of this universe to me. I want to see how this universe is going to be diIfferent. I don't see how using Khan is all that different than using any of the other established characters we saw in the first movie.

Jason

 

[Praetor]

I understand that, and do agree that they should use what they see fit and discard what they don't.

But my point is that Khan is already the major focus of a much-beloved episode and arguably the best movie of the Prime-verse; trying to outdo Khan, unless there's a REALLY original approach, is just an automatically failing proposition. It's hard to "out-Khan" Khan. People will naturally compare the new one to the original, and unless the new one is REALLY good, it will probably be unfavorable. Now, if they come up with something REALLY good, I'm fine with it.

Plus, what did Khan really offer dramatically that, say, Kor, couldn't?

 

[EnsignRicky]

How about doing City On The Edge Of Forever with the Mugatu involved?

 

[Jayson]

I understand that, and do agree that they should use what they see fit and discard what they don't.

But my point is that Khan is already the major focus of a much-beloved episode and arguably the best movie of the Prime-verse; trying to outdo Khan, unless there's a REALLY original approach, is just an automatically failing proposition. It's hard to "out-Khan" Khan. People will naturally compare the new one to the original, and unless the new one is REALLY good, it will probably be unfavorable. Now, if they come up with something REALLY good, I'm fine with it.

Plus, what did Khan really offer dramatically that, say, Kor, couldn't?

I like his backstory. Genetically engineered and all the stuff with the Eugenics war. Plus it wouldn't hurt in terms of getting casual fans intrested, since they are familiar with the guy. I think Kor might work as well, though I am not sure what you can do to make the Klingons more intresting.

Jason

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Why not open the next film with oldSpock handing nuSpock a padd.

"Some... items to which you might wish to attend," he says. "Take particular note of number three. That situation eventually proved to be bothersome."

nuSpock raises an eyebrow in response.

What follows is a montage of the nuE flying around the galaxy dispatching the Doomsday Machine, Space Amoeba, quietly killing Khan and his crew in their sleep then dumping the Botany Bay in a museum, intercepting the flying parasites before they reach Deneva, etc. That way we see old the old stuff again but also clear the decks for something entirely new.

If all that follows this reboot is a regurgitation of previous plots then ST09 is a project which should have never been undertaken.

 

[USS Triumphant]

quietly killing Khan and his crew in their sleep then dumping the Botany Bay in a museum

Can't do that. If you're going to have our new crew killing people out of hand, it may as well not be Star Trek.

Kirk's original idea for what to do with Khan wasn't bad, the selection of the planet used was just unfortunate. I'd do it again, but expand it: Take Khan and crew to an isolated world that we (Spock Prime) know is safe, set 'em up well, and tell them, "Look, there are these things called the Borg, and this group called the Dominion. We'd appreciate whatever you can come up with for us to get ready to deal with them." Basically, set them up to be similar to the thinktank group that Bashir was part of on DS9.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Why not open the next film with oldSpock handing nuSpock a padd.

"Some... items to which you might wish to attend," he says. "Take particular note of number three. That situation eventually proved to be bothersome."

nuSpock raises an eyebrow in response.

What follows is a montage of the nuE flying around the galaxy dispatching the Doomsday Machine, Space Amoeba, quietly killing Khan and his crew in their sleep then dumping the Botany Bay in a museum, intercepting the flying parasites before they reach Deneva, etc. That way we see old the old stuff again but also clear the decks for something entirely new.

If all that follows this reboot is a regurgitation of previous plots then ST09 is a project which should have never been undertaken.

They had better cover all the theater seats in plastic if they're going to attempt that level of fanwank. Still, it is a very intriguing idea even if your second paragraph seems to contradict the first.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

quietly killing Khan and his crew in their sleep then dumping the Botany Bay in a museum

Can't do that. If you're going to have our new crew killing people out of hand, it may as well not be Star Trek.

New timeline, new rules. Besides, this would simply be carrying out sentences no doubt handed down by war crimes tribunals after the Eugenics Wars anyway.

They had better cover all the theater seats in plastic if they're going to attempt that level of fanwank. Still, it is a very intriguing idea even if your second paragraph seems to contradict the first.

Obviously only my last sentence is any respect serious. While the question of exactly how much oldSpock should interfere with this new reality is interesting, seeing it played out, especially in this fashion, would not be. Were the screenwriters to offer up this up as part of STXII, despite some form of it being what quite a few fans of ST09 desire, they should be escorted off the lot.

They've got a blank slate. Use it.

 

[ST-One]

I've just seen this over at SciFi-Meshes...

Pretty cool and funny if you ask me

 

[Borgminister]

The Wrath of Lens Flares!