How about doing "The Cage" with Kahn involved?

[USS Triumphant]

Next movie they can all be criminals on the run from the law in essence.

Not next movie. But the one after next.

The next movie will be a much darker take on the TOS episode "A Wolf In The Fold" that introduces a new enemy, the D'Agla. By the end of the movie, the crew thinks they've gathered the evidence they need to prove Scotty's innocence, but all that has really happened is that key people have been kept busy with nonsense like the charges against Scotty while the Federation has been infiltrated all over the place. The Enterprise goes to show the evidence, only to find that the whole command crew is now supposedly believed compromised and wanted - shoot on sight, and destroy Enterprise if necessary - for harboring a murderer. The movie ends with them in hiding, and trying to carefully make contact with other ships and people they believe might be safe...

 

[miraclefan]

Weren't alot of trekies complaining not to long ago that trek needed some new & freash ideas? Or was I imagineing that?

 

[Gepard]

I'd really prefer that they do new stuff, rather than looking over their shoulders back at old stuff to do again. Frankly, I'm not convinced that TWoK did the character of Khan any favors -- it made him more cartoonish, imnsho -- and I am particularly uninterested in seeing Khan yet again.

And considering they already leaned pretty damned heavily on TWoK for the characterization in ST, it would be far preferable to have the powers that be finally get out from under the shadow of that movie.

 

[Sky]

Frankly I think the next film should focus on the aftermath of the destruction of Vulcan, and how the Klingons react to having 50+ ships wiped out by Nero the Romulan. Surely the Empire won't take that laying down. They could launch war on the Romulans and the UFP both.

This. I really hope they don't ignore the situation they created by having Vulcan destroyed. And I also don't want to see only rehashed old stuff - and definitely no Khan!

 

[exalted one]

What's the point of rebooting if you don't do fresh things, they say. Everything is possible, so why go back to old stories? they say.

What about other way around: What is the point of rebooting if you don't want to revisit the original ideas?

This is a huge opportunity to take familiar elements and combine them in new, fresh and surprising ways. Why not Khan? Why not a story in which Khan and Kirk are forced to cooperate and end up as somewhat uneasy allies?

Or, why not a story akin to Balance of Terror? "In a different reality, I could have called you friend," said the romulan commander. Well, this IS the different reality, so show us!

So much possiblities. Why would they bring us "new and fresh stories" you can see in any other generic space opera, if they can take the original stories and give them a new, fresh, appealing twist?
If they didn't intend to revisit the ideas of the original, there wasn't any point in rebooting the original in first place...

 

[Jayson]

^ I'm sorry - really I am, I'm not just saying that to be polite - but it sounds so dull to me. How different can it be if it involves the same general idea: A man who believes himself and his followers are destined to create a new super race of human beings. It's bound to be derivative. Even if you ignore Khan...well, it's been done other times, too - other shows, other movies. It's been done.

Here is just one way to do it. What if something happens in the croyogentic tubes and he dies. The ship drifts into Talosians space and he is brought back to life and studied by the Talosians but they reject him and put him back on his ship with no memories of who he is. Just vague memories of his previous life. He is discoved by Orion pirates and becomes a pirate in essence for the next 20 years or so. When the movie starts though he starts having memeories of Talo's and his experience there. He become determined to return and gain control of the power he knows that exsits on that planet. He wants power because he begins to see himself as a God due to his enhanced nature. Talos can be his heaven.

Jason

 

[fresh]

It would be fresh to the legions of new Star Trek fans that don't care about TOS.
Which probably make up about 70% of people who will go see the new Trek movie.

I don't mean to offend you, Fresh, I really don't. But I don't care who knows about TOS or who doesn't.

The plain fact is that whoever makes the movie would know. And that means that the plot would be OLD. Ancient, in fact - that episode ran in 1966. The fact that some members of the potential audience wouldn't know it for that doesn't change the fact that that's what it would be. For goodness' sake, if we want to be all fresh and original, let's be fresh and original.

There's a whole galaxy out there. Are you telling me that these bright young writers can't come up with a more original villain than one who was created in 1966 (or maybe even 1965, depending on when the script was written)? Please.

For the record, I was alive and watching Trek in 1966, and I'm telling you, it was a looooooong time ago.

I'm not offended.
I should clarify, I am not advocating Khan per se, but I am pointing out the fact that what may be true for us, is not true for the majority of the people who will see the next Trek movie.
Pretty much anything will be new and fresh for the new viewers.

I know you don't care what the new fans think, but I don't think you and I are all that important to the studio anymore.

Tom..
1. If the next movie goes the way of Dark Knight as many hope, Trek fans will be less than 30% and even if they did do Khan, most of us would go anyway .. even if he is a retread.
2. I don't think Khan is as legendary as you might think. Most people my age (20s) and younger have no idea who he is.
3. I agree, but I'm not making the movie, but most of all I hope we get a good overall movie, Khan or no Khan.

 

[Squiggy]

What's the point of the Abramsverse where "anything can happen"...

That's not the point. Thanks for playing though.

 

[JustKate]

I should clarify, I am not advocating Khan per se, but I am pointing out the fact that what may be true for us, is not true for the majority of the people who will see the next Trek movie.
Pretty much anything will be new and fresh for the new viewers.

I know you don't care what the new fans think, but I don't think you and I are all that important to the studio anymore.

Actually, that's not what I meant. Sorry I was unclear. The reason I said "I don't care" is because I think it is meaningless what new fans know or don't know. What matters is that it's an old plot and anybody involved in making the movie would know that.

It is true that I have a selfish interest in this because I think Khan has been done to death and I have no more interest in exploring his character. But I think that the oldness - the staleness - of this idea would be bound to affect the folks creating a new movie, too.

Just do something original and creative. I don't think that's too much to ask. I think both new fans and old fans deserve that.

 

[Jayson]

I should clarify, I am not advocating Khan per se, but I am pointing out the fact that what may be true for us, is not true for the majority of the people who will see the next Trek movie.
Pretty much anything will be new and fresh for the new viewers.

I know you don't care what the new fans think, but I don't think you and I are all that important to the studio anymore.

Actually, that's not what I meant. Sorry I was unclear. The reason I said "I don't care" is because I think it is meaningless what new fans know or don't know. What matters is that it's an old plot and anybody involved in making the movie would know that.

It is true that I have a selfish interest in this because I think Khan has been done to death and I have no more interest in exploring his character. But I think that the oldness - the staleness - of this idea would be bound to affect the folks creating a new movie, too.

Just do something original and creative. I don't think that's too much to ask. I think both new fans and old fans deserve that.

But it's not a old plot. It's not like they are going to dust off the old script from "Wrath of Khan" and do the same story. There is a difference between using familiar trek characters and aliens and doing a brand new story with those familiar elements. I'm not even sure what it means by doing "something new." at least in terms of how Trek fans perceive "new."

Is the only thing that counts in terms of being new is to have aliens and a planet we have never seen before? I mean we saw alot of new aliens and planets on "Voyager" but they hardly did anything that felt new to me. "Star Trek" brings back familiar characters and Romulans and has Vulcan play a huge role in the story, yet despite all these familiar elements it felt more new from what we have seen in Trek for along time. In fact I think alot of the orginality will come from using familiar Trek elements and then turning them upside down from what we expect to see. That is why Vulcan being destroyed is such a powerful moment. We know that we would never see something that bold if Rick Berman was still churning out the movies and tv shows. "Ds9" did it to a degree but that is because Berman stoped caring about that show and even then they still had to pull back at times. Abrams doesn't have to.

Jason

 

[Borgminister]

Well if Abrams doesn't have to pull back, then why should he recycle villains like that?

I think he should use familiar surroundings and secondary characters, but the story should be brand new.

Why go for nostalgia? I think the general public and long-time fan would be more excited by something brand new and intriguing than by a rehash of sorts.

 

[Mr. B]

What's the point of the Abramsverse where "anything can happen"...

That's not the point. Thanks for playing though.

It helps when you read the whole sentence.

What's the point of the Abramsverse where "anything can happen" if were just going to shoehorn old story lines into JJ's vision?

See how I'm asking a question rather than making a definition?

 

[JustKate]

But it's not a old plot. It's not like they are going to dust off the old script from "Wrath of Khan" and do the same story. There is a difference between using familiar trek characters and aliens and doing a brand new story with those familiar elements. I'm not even sure what it means by doing "something new." at least in terms of how Trek fans perceive "new."

Jason, I understand that you're suggesting a new scenario for Khan. I do get that. But look at it this way:
Eugenically enhanced human being? Check.
Part of a group of other enhanced, genetically "perfected" humans? Check.
Launched from Earth in order to populate a new planet with a super race of humans? Check.
Possesses megalomaniacal tendences and considers himself a superior being? Check. (Unless, I guess, your "lost his memory" scenario eliminates that, but if he doesn't have this facet to his character, how would he be a villain? So I'm going to have to retain my "check" here.)
Will eventually attempt to take over the Enterprise and/or the Earth? Check.

I just don't see enough room for originality here, with or without the Talosians. Sorry.

If, as you suggest, villains with something familiar about them tend to work best (though I must point out that this doesn't really jive with your earlier point about how a villain from TOS wouldn't be familiar to new fans), well, heck, there are lots of other choices. There are Trek villains that haven't been done to death - that we barely glimpsed or who, unlike Khan, ought to be really alien-looking and could be done better these days through modern movie magic. Why not one of those?

 

[Squiggy]

What's the point of the Abramsverse where "anything can happen"...

That's not the point. Thanks for playing though.

It helps when you read the whole sentence.

What's the point of the Abramsverse where "anything can happen" if were just going to shoehorn old story lines into JJ's vision?

See how I'm asking a question rather than making a definition?

And I answered your question. "Anything can happen" isn't the point of the new timeline anymore than "Anything can happen" was the point of the old timeline.

 

[Jayson]

But it's not a old plot. It's not like they are going to dust off the old script from "Wrath of Khan" and do the same story. There is a difference between using familiar trek characters and aliens and doing a brand new story with those familiar elements. I'm not even sure what it means by doing "something new." at least in terms of how Trek fans perceive "new."

Jason, I understand that you're suggesting a new scenario for Khan. I do get that. But look at it this way:
Eugenically enhanced human being? Check.
Part of a group of other enhanced, genetically "perfected" humans? Check.
Launched from Earth in order to populate a new planet with a super race of humans? Check.
Possesses megalomaniacal tendences and considers himself a superior being? Check. (Unless, I guess, your "lost his memory" scenario eliminates that, but if he doesn't have this facet to his character, how would he be a villain? So I'm going to have to retain my "check" here.)
Will eventually attempt to take over the Enterprise and/or the Earth? Check.

I just don't see enough room for originality here, with or without the Talosians. Sorry.

If, as you suggest, villains with something familiar about them tend to work best (though I must point out that this doesn't really jive with your earlier point about how a villain from TOS wouldn't be familiar to new fans), well, heck, there are lots of other choices. There are Trek villains that haven't been done to death - that we barely glimpsed or who, unlike Khan, ought to be really alien-looking and could be done better these days through modern movie magic. Why not one of those?

While nuKhan might have similarites to old Khan I think it would be his goals and the emotional attachment we have to the character that would make or break the performance. The actor they choose to play Khan would also go along way in how they shape the characters. ALso the way I see or how I would do it is basically to show Khan as this lonely guy who finds a purpose in his life when he starts to gain his memories back. In essence it's like old Khan is buried inside his subconscious and the more he remembers the more he begins to revert to the Khan we know. Maybe he is even a alley at first with Kirk.

With that said i don't we have to have Khan. You want to know who I would love to see as a villian? I think Captain Garth would be a great villian. A Starfleet captain that goes insane. Only we see it happen before he ends up in a mental hospital. I see Alan Rickman in the role.

Jason

 

[Jayson]

Well if Abrams doesn't have to pull back, then why should he recycle villains like that?

I think he should use familiar surroundings and secondary characters, but the story should be brand new.

Why go for nostalgia? I think the general public and long-time fan would be more excited by something brand new and intriguing than by a rehash of sorts.

That brings up the question though of what do we see as "new." Does Nero count as new? We never saw the character before but we have seen Romulans before but we have never seen civilian Romulans before. Nero is both old and new. I see a reimaged Khan in the same way. Familiar but not the same.

Jason

 

[Borgminister]

Well if Abrams doesn't have to pull back, then why should he recycle villains like that?

I think he should use familiar surroundings and secondary characters, but the story should be brand new.

Why go for nostalgia? I think the general public and long-time fan would be more excited by something brand new and intriguing than by a rehash of sorts.

That brings up the question though of what do we see as "new." Does Nero count as new? We never saw the character before but we have seen Romulans before but we have never seen civilian Romulans before. Nero is both old and new. I see a reimaged Khan in the same way. Familiar but not the same.

Jason

Well, the villain in this movie served to advance the character introductions, and was hardly memorable.

But Khan will inevitably bring comparisons, and I think the next movie has to establish its own identity. Like the Borg established TNG, and not TOS.

 

[indranee]

If they do bring in Kahn for the next movie I think it would be fun if they in essence do a alternate episode for the next movie. Have Kirk andd Kahn trying to outwit each to gain control of the planet Talos and all it's advanced technology. It would be a chance to not only have a good villian but you could really explore a alien world as well. Plus the planet might be filled with all sorts of creatures and wierd aliens that the talosians had abducted and were left behind. ALso it would be nice to have a movie that doesn't turn the cliche of putting earth in danger, yet again.

Jason

first of all, it's Khan, not Kahn.

 

[Jayson]

Well if Abrams doesn't have to pull back, then why should he recycle villains like that?

I think he should use familiar surroundings and secondary characters, but the story should be brand new.

Why go for nostalgia? I think the general public and long-time fan would be more excited by something brand new and intriguing than by a rehash of sorts.

That brings up the question though of what do we see as "new." Does Nero count as new? We never saw the character before but we have seen Romulans before but we have never seen civilian Romulans before. Nero is both old and new. I see a reimaged Khan in the same way. Familiar but not the same.

Jason

Well, the villain in this movie served to advance the character introductions, and was hardly memorable.

But Khan will inevitably bring comparisons, and I think the next movie has to establish its own identity. Like the Borg established TNG, and not TOS.

All Movie villians in trek are eventually compared to Khan. Those comparsions will happen because he is the villian in which all other villians are usally held up to as a measure of judging how effective they were.

I agree that Abramsverse needs to establish it's own identy but I think that will come, not by the new aliens he introduces, but how he shakes up the familiar elements and turns them into something new. The Destruction of Vulcan was one of those defining moments as was young Kirk sending the car over the cliff. A new Khan will only enhance the differences or at least he should if he is written correctly. Heck if you want to shake things up have Khan become a good guy in the end and join the crew. Maybe Khan doesn't like what he is turning into and finds his new purpose in doing something good for a change to kind of redeem himself for his past sins.

jason

 

[Greg Cox]

If they do bring in Kahn for the next movie I think it would be fun if they in essence do a alternate episode for the next movie. Have Kirk andd Kahn trying to outwit each to gain control of the planet Talos and all it's advanced technology. It would be a chance to not only have a good villian but you could really explore a alien world as well. Plus the planet might be filled with all sorts of creatures and wierd aliens that the talosians had abducted and were left behind. ALso it would be nice to have a movie that doesn't turn the cliche of putting earth in danger, yet again.

Jason

first of all, it's Khan, not Kahn.

Thank you.