Hooligans..

[KLOEN]

Considering the nature of this board, sci-fi/trek-stuff, this probably isn't the place to find people with experience in the fields of hooliganism, however, there's a lot of British people here, and I'm more specifically looking for info on the American situation.

Anyway, the thing I'm wondering about, is how the hooliganism is shaping up over there? Not only at football (soccer) matches, but also at those other sports that are big over there, hockey, football, baseball and so on.
Do you guys have dedicated firms?

A firm is, for those wondering, similar to a gang of sorts, except they're not out for money but for fame among the other firms. Most major teams have a firm, people from neighbourhood or from among the fans, who find each other, team up, and then square off against the other clubs' firms. sort of anyway, it's not quite as simple as that.

I've been spending some time with one of the Copenhagen firms, and got a lot of insight in the hows and whys, even tasted a bit of semi-action, and since I'm a big fan of US sports in general, I'm curious as to what you guys on this page has seen, read or experienced regarding hooligans in the US?

 

[Deckerd]

You should ask Jim Steele. He must be a casual from the eye-spinningly deranged posts he makes. Him and his mates. Mark my words.

 

[Pingfah]

I think he's after Americans not crazy Scots

As I understand it, sports related violence is virtually non existent in the USA excepting a few bust ups in the stands. And if I am not mistaken the fans all sit together at football matches, they are not split up like at European soccer matches.

I might be wrong though.

Not American either, but if you want to see a really good film about Soccer violence in the UK, watch a film called "I.D.".

 

[Roger Wilco]

I don't think that even remotely exists in the USA; sports are mostly family-oriented and crowd violence is rare at best. Also, considering the great distances clubs usually have to travel to away matches it is unlikely for opposing fans to even meet each other.
And anyone connected to violence in connection with his team would probably get banned for life instantly without any consideration of the circumstances or anything, especially if it happened inside the stadium.

btw. KLOEN, are you planning on travelling to Brugge in december? When I was there with Rapid in the 2005/06 Champions League, they had the best home support I've ever seen anywhere (and I've been around quite a bit in Europe), that was really, really impressive. And there might even be activities related to this thread there if you are so inclined.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We do have some instances of large groups storming the fields (such as the 1976 ALCS after Chris Chambliss hit that homer at Yankee Stadium), but that's more of a *happy* riot.

Most of the hooliganism we get, such as it is, would occur after the games are over, in the streets.

 

[nevermore]

Nah, it's virtually unheard of here. I've known people who have been kicked out of baseball games just for getting a bit too loud. Football tickets are waaay too expensive to waste by getting tossed, and most stadiums have rules that if you get tossed out for violence you lose your season tickets and seat license, and that's a several-thousand dollar yearly expense.

Basically, in our sports, the violence takes place on the field, not in the stands. There's the occasional rampage through the streets after a championship, but there are certainly no gangs "squaring off" before games. Before games, we BBQ in the parking lot.

Also, considering the great distances clubs usually have to travel to away matches it is unlikely for opposing fans to even meet each other.

Not true at all. While this whole "neighborhood" thing he mentions certainly doesn't apply, as our teams are city-wide, with generally one per state (NY and CA MMV), fans do travel a lot for games, especially football becasue it's such a short season, but baseball as well. For instance, we often have more Red Sox or Yankee fans in the stadium then Orioles fans becasue a) it's a day trip and b) our stadium is cheaper becasue our team sucks. Also, we always have a decent number of Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Redskins, Giants, etc. fans. People may travel most for divisional games, as those are based largely on region, but we had a bunch of Oakland fans in town for the most recent home game...

There weren't even any incidents when the Colts came to town for the playoffs, and everyone in Baltimore fucking hates the Colts.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

If you asked sports announcers, they'd say that Philadelphia fans are 1000 times worse than Europeans. They're not. Generally speaking, you might get random drunken incidents and a rival fan might get cursed at, but that's about it (and it's true in every sport, every stadium). American Football would be have the most unruly fans (I think there's the incident in Denver where they threw batteries inside snowballs at the field, but that was prboably 10 years ago).

As for "firms" we don't call them that and, once again, nothing that extreme. Basically, once again, football is the closest, but much tamer. Everything else gets tamer and tamer.

 

[Canadave]

Fan violence is pretty rare in North America. The only incident I can think of offhand is the Rocket Richard Riot in Montreal, in the '50s.

 

[KLOEN]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

btw. KLOEN, are you planning on travelling to Brugge in december? When I was there with Rapid in the 2005/06 Champions League, they had the best home support I've ever seen anywhere (and I've been around quite a bit in Europe), that was really, really impressive. And there might even be activities related to this thread there if you are so inclined.

Yeah, definitely planning on going, especially now that we've just squared off with frickin' Valencia!! 1-1 baby!!

Most of the hooliganism we get, such as it is, would occur after the games are over, in the streets.

Well, to be fair, that's actually where most of the hooliganism in Scandinavia occur as well, and my guess is it's the same in England and the rest of Europe. Stadiums are heavily monitored and often sport quite the police presence, so everything I've noticed or been close to have occurred outside the stadium, in the small streets surrounding the stadium or at some pre-appointed location far from the cops.
But I guess that's a European thing as well, that the stadiums don't have these huge parking lots, since most stadiums we're originally planned a century ago, so the city kind of grew around it. I now that's true for many English, German and Scandinavian stadiums, at least those for the older teams.

Nah, it's virtually unheard of here. I've known people who have been kicked out of baseball games just for getting a bit too loud. Football tickets are waaay too expensive to waste by getting tossed, and most stadiums have rules that if you get tossed out for violence you lose your season tickets and seat license, and that's a several-thousand dollar yearly expense.

Yeah, same here, season tickets are getting waaaay too expensive. I know it's a major issue in Manchester for example, where it's virtually impossible for a low income blue collar family to get tickets for the bigger games.
This often in turn means that none of the fans who really bleed for the club, and need the ups and downs associated with following a club so intensely, can be at the stadium often.
I've heard many complaints that the fans standing up the entire match, singing every minute, are thinning scarily much out, since the stadiums have been infested with businessmen, semi-celebs and sponsor ticket holders, who to put it harshly alle wander off 5 minutes before the match ends, and who all would rather sit down than show their enthusiasm.. But that could just be my prejudice.

 

[Mick]

All the action will be at the little league games. Parents are our versions hooligans.

 

[Pegaritaville]

Also, considering the great distances clubs usually have to travel to away matches it is unlikely for opposing fans to even meet each other.

Not true at all. While this whole "neighborhood" thing he mentions certainly doesn't apply, as our teams are city-wide, with generally one per state (NY and CA MMV), fans do travel a lot for games, especially football becasue it's such a short season, but baseball as well. For instance, we often have more Red Sox or Yankee fans in the stadium then Orioles fans becasue a) it's a day trip and b) our stadium is cheaper becasue our team sucks.<snip>

But generally, Roger Wilco's point stands: The distance factor probably mutes the "hooligan" factor (and BTW, I've never heard that term applied to sporting events around here). You'll always get fans that'll travel to away games (and often in groups), but even when they do travel en masse, their purpose is usually just to see the game.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

The only games I go to are basketball. There is so much security, they don't want you getting up and going to the bathroom at the wrong time. Fans of opposing teams are few and far between and mostly only get a dirty look for rooting for "the enemy." The worst I ever saw was a lot of taunting towards the visiting team's owner, and that was mainly because he was a trash talking jerk.

As far as post win rioting, that happens in some cities, but in San Antonio when the Spurs win a championship, people pull their cars over and honk their horns for fifteen minutes. Seriously.

 

[SmoothieX]

I went to a Patriots game recently and things were generally civil with the exception of a few drunken assholes. They played the Rams and there were a couple St. Louis fans by us. One big fat intoxicated fuck decided to scream at them and make their life miserable. Then a few gentlemen in uniform decided to usher him elsewhere.

 

[Tomalak]

It's Italy you want to stay away from. A thousand times worse than English hooligans even in their seventies heyday.

And the Spanish and Eastern Europeans are generally racist.

 

[bod]

It's Italy you want to stay away from. A thousand times worse than English hooligans even in their seventies heyday.

And the Spanish and Eastern Europeans are generally racist.

Yup, the incident of A Moped being thrown from a top tier stand at a lazio game springs to mind, which begs the question. How the hell do you smuggle a moped into a football stadium?

Also bags filled with urine are a speciality.

 

[Kpnuts]

Rugby union in the uk doesn't have any fan violence

 

[NCC1968]

Such stupidy has always made me question the brain power of soccer fans......what gives?

 

[bod]

Such stupidy has always made me question the brain power of soccer fans......what gives?

That's a good question. what gives indeed.

Perfectly sane & well behaved men turn into raving lunatics on a Saturday afternoon. It's like a pack mentality. Some people are looking for violence, but others who would normally behave themselves get caught up in the frenzy & jump on the bandwagon.

What goes on at these games can also be a reflection of the current social climate, watch out for an escalation in soccer violence as historically soccer is the domain of the working class male.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

At times, I think I missed my calling as a hooligan.

In college I wrote an editorial for the school newspaper entitled "I Want To Be a Soccer Hooligan." I'd gone to a women's soccer game on campus. It was poorly attended. There was no excitement in the stands. The play on the field was boring beyond belief. Some hooliganism would have really livened things up. Oh, I didn't want street brawls, but I wanted a kinder, gentler hooliganism, with fans painting themselves with a red Spider, with trash cans being set on fire in the stands, that sort of thing.

While this whole "neighborhood" thing he mentions certainly doesn't apply, as our teams are city-wide, with generally one per state (NY and CA MMV),

That's a big part of it; American sports teams really aren't neighborhood teams, because the sports complexes are either in the heart of downtown (like Camden Yards), in developing neighborhoods (like Nationals Park), or on the outskirts. It's hard to have a "neighborhood" feeling when there's no neighborhood around the stadium.

fans do travel a lot for games, especially football becasue it's such a short season, but baseball as well. For instance, we often have more Red Sox or Yankee fans in the stadium then Orioles fans because a) it's a day trip and b) our stadium is cheaper because our team sucks.

And now that the O's are rebuilding their starting rotation virtually from scratch, next year's not looking so hot.

But yeah, you can tell which team is in town by who's riding the Baltimore Light Rail on game days. When it's the Yankees or the Sox, you see a lot of New York and Boston gear, and you can barely find room to stand. When it's the Devil Rays, no one really cares. *shrug*

There weren't even any incidents when the Colts came to town for the playoffs, and everyone in Baltimore fucking hates the Colts.

The way the local media, like the Sun, has been playing up the Ravens/Steelers rivalry the past week, I'm half expecting some sort of riot.

 

[Orintho]

I am a hockey fan and even though the game itself allows fighting, the fans rarely ever do. Many venues have zero-tolerance rules so people behave themselves or they get tossed out.

In the US, we don't see the gangs of fans like you see in Europe. The worst things that can happen (in isolated incidents) is one fan shooting another after a big college rivalry football game. But that is not hooliganism or fan thuggery. That is the likely the results of a post-game bar brawl.