Hogan's Heroes....

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The truth is, without Hogan and his crew, Schultz would likely have long been dead. He was a sweet, gentle man who couldn't truly harm a fly, and he was more likely to overlook mistakes than punish for them.

Perhaps Klink also knew this, and thus insisted on keeping Schultz around so as to insulate him from the full horrors of Nazism? (And with the expectation that, in return, Klink could work for Schultz's toy factory after the war.) Kind of like a protective parent or big brother would.

I'm also curious as to how Klink functioned in the active duty military. Isn't he a veteran of World War I?

 

[Warped9]

The fact is that in reality prisoners can often get away with some unlikely things right under the noses of their keepers. Indeed a lot of keepers can even turn a blind eye to some activity simply as a means of keeping the peace. HH simply ttook that idea to an extreme. Good comedy, in my opinion, has at least a smidgen of reality to it. It's quite similar to how good standup comics can illustrate how absurd and ironic reality can be simply by reducing it to barest essentiual elements.

What can make us laugh goes beyond just being silly and absurd, but resonates because we can recognize some measure of truth and familiarity in it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I could have learned to play the drums just by listening to HH's theme music over and over.

 

[Warped9]

One thing I liked about the fanfic story "End Game" is it got into the heads of the principal characters and gave us some plausible insight into their thoughts, feelings and perceptions.

 

[urbandefault]

I look at Hogan's Heroes as making fun of the biggest evil the planet has seen in the 20th century. Mel Brooks made fun of Nazis in all his movies, and if it's good enough for Melvin Kaminsky it's good enough for me.

 

[Amaris]

Perhaps Klink also knew this, and thus insisted on keeping Schultz around so as to insulate him from the full horrors of Nazism? (And with the expectation that, in return, Klink could work for Schultz's toy factory after the war.) Kind of like a protective parent or big brother would.

I'm also curious as to how Klink functioned in the active duty military. Isn't he a veteran of World War I?

According to the show itself, Klink was a bomber pilot in the Luftwaffe during WWI, though he probably wasn't a very good pilot.

The fact is that in reality prisoners can often get away with some unlikely things right under the noses of their keepers. Indeed a lot of keepers can even turn a blind eye to some activity simply as a means of keeping the peace. HH simply ttook that idea to an extreme. Good comedy, in my opinion, has at least a smidgen of reality to it. It's quite similar to how good standup comics can illustrate how absurd and ironic reality can be simply by reducing it to barest essentiual elements.

What can make us laugh goes beyond just being silly and absurd, but resonates because we can recognize some measure of truth and familiarity in it.

Exactly. There are some really dark moments in the series, though they usually glossed over it with some comedy. For the German officers, it was "don't rock the boat if you want to survive the war!" while for the Allied officers it was "keep rocking the boat, they'll be too terrified to notice what we're doing!"

I could have learned to play the drums just by listening to HH's theme music over and over.

A neat little factoid is that Bob Crane was an accomplished drummer, and actually played the drums in the opening theme.

One thing I liked about the fanfic story "End Game" is it got into the heads of the principal characters and gave us some plausible insight into their thoughts, feelings and perceptions.

Yeah, the writers of that particular fic did a very good job of meshing the comedic elements with the more serious undercurrent. Once things got down to the nitty gritty, the principle characters were able to shed their disguises, and be up front with one another. It's something that I wanted to see happen in the show, though we only got glimpses of such things.

I look at Hogan's Heroes as making fun of the biggest evil the planet has seen in the 20th century. Mel Brooks made fun of Nazis in all his movies, and if it's good enough for Melvin Kaminsky it's good enough for me.

Amen!

 

[mos6507]

Personally I think it was a show just written for laughs.

Good comedy usually has a lot more stuff going on under the surface. For instance, there's a whole book about the philosophy behind Big Bang Theory.

HH is so old and has been rerun so many times that it's natural to want to look at it from an unusual perspective.

 

[Melakon]

A neat little factoid is that Bob Crane was an accomplished drummer, and actually played the drums in the opening theme.

What?! I knew Crane was a drummer, but that's him on the main title with the military snare? Never knew this. I always liked how the drums fade over the action, lending a more tense feeling to the opening scene.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Has anybody around here read a HH fic called Common Enemies, Uncommon Friends? It basically told a series finale type story as well that I really enjoyed.

Unfortunately the author took it down for some reason so I can't point you to it. But if anyone wants to read it pm me with an email. I have it as a pdf, but don't have a place to host it, and in any case I'm not sure I should since it's not mine. Still it's an excellent read, if somewhat long at 124 pages.

 

[Amaris]

A neat little factoid is that Bob Crane was an accomplished drummer, and actually played the drums in the opening theme.

What?! I knew Crane was a drummer, but that's him on the main title with the military snare? Never knew this. I always liked how the drums fade over the action, lending a more tense feeling to the opening scene.

Yep. Bob was a really cool cat.

You can see him in action, as a drummer, on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour clip here:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4rQYlXQYk8[/yt]

 

[Gov Kodos]

Has anybody around here read a HH fic called Common Enemies, Uncommon Friends? It basically told a series finale type story as well that I really enjoyed.

Unfortunately the author took it down for some reason so I can't point you to it. But if anyone wants to read it pm me with an email. I have it as a pdf, but don't have a place to host it, and in any case I'm not sure I should since it's not mine. Still it's an excellent read, if somewhat long at 124 pages.

Is it this one here? It's a very good read. http://figment.com/books/85302-Common-Enemies-Uncommon-Friends

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Yes. That's it.

 

[HIjol]

Bob sure did live life large...maybe too large, towards the end...didn't he have a relationship with Sigrid Valdis, Klink's secretary?...as well as a few others...but what a fun show that, IMHO, went deeper than it seemed, and managed to walk the tightrope of a really edgy subject... <cue drums>

 

[Amaris]

@Duncan MacLeod - I'll have to check that out!

Bob sure did live life large...maybe too large, towards the end...didn't he have a relationship with Sigrid Valdis, Klink's secretary?...as well as a few others...but what a fun show that, IMHO, went deeper than it seemed, and managed to walk the tightrope of a really edgy subject... <cue drums>

Yep, he divorced his wife and married Sigrid Valdis. They had two kids (one by birth, and the other by adoption).

 

[Gov Kodos]

One story worthy of a Hogan's Heroes episode is The Captain of Köpenick. Wilhelm Voight was a down and out drifter and sometime cobbler. One day he decided to impersonate an army captain, commandeered some soldiers and robbed the town treasury. Became quite the folk hero over the escapade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt

 

[Mister Fandango]

Personally I think it was a show just written for laughs.

Good comedy usually has a lot more stuff going on under the surface. For instance, there's a whole book about the philosophy behind Big Bang Theory.

HH is so old and has been rerun so many times that it's natural to want to look at it from an unusual perspective.

Yes, I know that's a natural thing to do. It just goes way overboard when people try to claim things like "there's a lot more stuff going on under the surface" or "the writers were clearly trying to say this and that." Which, for the most part, is complete bullshit. I guarantee you that Shakespeare, for example, did not have entire volumes of "things he was really trying to say" in mind when writing his plays.

This as opposed to simply pointing out the fun or interesting coincidences between a story and real life. I do it all the time. But I certainly don't try to tell myself that's really what was going on unless there's obvious proof from the authors that it was really what was gong on. And that's something that's far and few between.

 

[Warped9]

HH was written and produced only twenty years after WW2. Key members of its cast were Jewish and had clear recollections of the earlier era and the Nazis in particular.. It's also highly likely members of the creative and production staff had wartime experiences or associations. So it's not a stretch that their work could be influenced by their experiences.

HH is not on the same level as M*A*S*H which (particularly later) was quite socially relevant. But that doesn't mean things didn't seep through in HH.


Both fanfic stories (with links posted upthread) go to lengths to explore the characters' thoughts, feelings and perceptions. They explore the characters more deeply than was done in the series itself. Are the authors simply rationalizing the characters' behaviour onscreen (within the context of the show) or are they expanding on something they picked up on from what they saw onscreen? There's no question the premise and many of the situations depicted on the show were absurd, but I certainly picked up on little things in episodes that struck a chord with my own knowledge of WW2 and understanding of events and what people experienced.

I don't know if HH will ever be rebooted for a feature film like so many other older television properties have been (and probably stink), but I know when I watched the film Monuments Men I thought it felt rather like Hogan's Heroes. It seemed to have that right touch of balance between humour and sincerity while fictionalizing something that actually happened.

 

[Warped9]

I enjoyed both fanfic stories. "Common Enemies, Uncommon Friends" felt particularly poignant in that the characterizations were spot on. All the characters felt exactly like those onscreen. It had more of a touch of humour than "End Game" and thus felt more like the series.

I find it interesting how both stories paint Hochstetter and the Gestapo as really nasty. In the series his menace was always implied or referenced but never really shown. The fanfic stories pull no such punches and show us his inherent brutality. Mind you in the series the most menacing Gestapo and SS portrayals were much more restrained and soft spoken than Hochstetter who was often stepping over-the-top in character.

 

[Forbin]

No time to read the whole thread, but I gotta say I still love this show. Got it on DVD and recently finished a rewatch after not seeing it for ages. I was surprised to notice that it's somewhat MASH-like in that it's not full-blown comedy, but is more of a tongue-in-cheek espionage show with comedic moments. But as for the comedy, man, John Banner runs away with it!

 

[Melakon]

McHale's Navy was originally planned to be a drama, so I guess it's not too strange to imagine the same thing about Hogan's.