Hogan's Heroes....

[the G-man]

Dave Sim had a great take on the show. It's a satire of the then-current corporate mindset/environment. The shows Nazis are basically men the grey flannel suit.

Schultz is the beleaguered labor class. Klink is clueless middle management. Burkholder is the tyrannical upper management. SS Major Hofsteader is the dreaded outside consultant (sort of a precursor to Alec Baldwin in glengarry Glenn Ross).

Berlin is the home office and the Russian Front was unemployment.

Interesting take..a funny show. I am Jewish and not offended...much of the cast was jewish..

...as was Bernard Fein, the show's co-creator.

There was a really well done (IMO) fan fiction that wrapped up the series and talked about the aftermath.

For the life of me, I thought the show did have a proper ending. Wasn't there an episode where they learned the war was over and the three main characters (Hogan, Klink and Schultz) ended up having a drink in Klink's office, discussing going back to civilian life...with it turning out that Schultz was actually the owner of a giant toy company and was probably going to end up being Klink's boss?

 

[mos6507]

HH ran long enough but not too long to feel like it totally outran the timeframe of the setting the way shows like MASH, Happy Days, and Laverne and Shirley did.

Besides wanting to retire "rural" comedies like Beverly Hillbillies, I just think pop culture changed too abruptly in the early 70s to allow the late 60s classic sitcoms to extend that far into the 70s. They were just too locked into the 60s attitude and aesthetic.

Had Star Trek continued into the early 70s it too would have appeared dated had they not somehow updated the production design and overall way they did things. I'm not saying TOS was bad, but it was again, very "of the time" and by the early 70s, audiences were starting to expect that 2001-esque Liesure-suit, bell-bottoms, and pastel vibe in futuristic stuff.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

All right, that's it. I just finished Part 1. There are at least two scenes which had me openly sobbing:

Spoiler: story

- The part where Hogan learns he's dying and tries to explain it to his men (and, later, to Klink)

- An unrelated scene, where Hogan receives his General's stars

 

[Amaris]

^ I'm halfway through that fanfic right now. And, God help me, I'm starting to tear up. Especially with Klink. Obviously the show was a comedy and played Klink as the coward and the fool all the time, but it's jarring to read about Klink like this. I guess it just shows that even Klink was a human being and still had feelings.

It really is, and even though it's more serious, you can see elements of how it works in the show. The story doesn't really stretch them much farther, and it all stays within reason. I could see Klink being the willing, blind fool, because he knew what would happen to him if he caught a massive undercover operation happening in his camp. It wouldn't matter that he caught them. He would still be punished because of the sheer damage they had caused to the Nazi war machine. Sometimes, in the show, you can tell Klink knows there are definitely things going on under his nose, but he doesn't want to know about it.

Schultz straight up knew, because he had been an active participant in some of their schemes. Of course, a chocolate bar made certain he knew nothing. Nothing!

Dave Sim had a great take on the show. It's a satire of the then-current corporate mindset/environment. The shows Nazis are basically men the grey flannel suit.

Schultz is the beleaguered labor class. Klink is clueless middle management. Burkholder is the tyrannical upper management. SS Major Hofsteader is the dreaded outside consultant (sort of a precursor to Alec Baldwin in glengarry Glenn Ross).

Berlin is the home office and the Russian Front was unemployment.

Interesting take..a funny show. I am Jewish and not offended...much of the cast was jewish..

...as was Bernard Fein, the show's co-creator.

There was a really well done (IMO) fan fiction that wrapped up the series and talked about the aftermath.

For the life of me, I thought the show did have a proper ending. Wasn't there an episode where they learned the war was over and the three main characters (Hogan, Klink and Schultz) ended up having a drink in Klink's office, discussing going back to civilian life...with it turning out that Schultz was actually the owner of a giant toy company and was probably going to end up being Klink's boss?

That was the episode "War Takes A Holiday," where they faked a radio broadcast that the war was over so that they could get Klink to release a couple of highly valuable prisoners.

 

[Melakon]

John Banner shows up in a Dobie Gillis episode I watched the other day, made several years before Hogan, playing some distinguished foreign professor with one or two lines. Banner was an Austrian Jew who had joined an acting troupe in his own country. When Hitler annexed Austria in 1938, Banner's troupe was performing in Switzerland and he fled to the United States at 28.

Likewise, Werner Klemperer was born in Cologne, Germany and escaped to the United States with his family at 15 in 1935. Leon Askin, another Austrian Jew, came to the U.S. in 1940 at about 33.

It must have been great fun for these guys making the Nazis look like idiots, though still carrying memories of 20 or 30 years earlier.

And of course, Robert Clary had been in a concentration camp himself.

 

[Warped9]

There was a really well done (IMO) fan fiction that wrapped up the series and talked about the aftermath. I rather liked it. Its take was more serious than the show, but to me it resolved things satisfactorily. If you're interested, it's called "End Game," and you can get it here: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/421385/1/End-Game

As for the show itself, it's a shame that CBS just decided to cancel so many shows without even considering their popularity, because they wanted to appeal to the more "urban" crowd. I believe the idea was that anything with a tree in it was knocked off. That's how Green Acres and Beverly Hillbillies went off the air, too.

I've just read the first quarter of this fanfic story. It's more grim, serious minded and more drawn out than the actual series, but its still a damn good read. And I can easily hear the chatacters saying the written words.

 

[Amaris]

Klemperer certainly got his wish. He stated that he would only take the part of Klink if the man was shown to be an incompetent, ineffective boob, who was always defeated, which he was. I also thought it was neat that Werner, the son of Otto Klemperer, could play the violin most expertly, but in the show Klink's playing was atrocious.

Oh, and because it must be said:

Hogan: "Hello, Major, how are things in the war business?"
Hochstetter: "What is this man doing here?!"

I've just read the first quarter of this fanfic story. It's more grim, serious minded and more drawn out than the actual series, but its still a damn good read. And I can easily hear the chatacters saying the written words.

I think you'll really like how it turns out. I like to pretend it's how it all worked out.

 

[Melakon]

If you've not seen The Man from U.N.C.L.E.'s "The Project Strigas Affair", you must. Shatner's the guest star, Werner Klemperer is an evil foreign ambassador, and Nimoy is his slightly dim aide. The plot is almost like something out of the later Mission: Impossible.

 

[Amaris]

If you've not seen The Man from U.N.C.L.E.'s "The Project Strigas Affair", you must. Shatner's the guest star, Werner Klemperer is an evil foreign ambassador, and Nimoy is his slightly dim aide.

I'll add that to my "must see" list!

 

[mos6507]

Sometimes, in the show, you can tell Klink knows there are definitely things going on under his nose, but he doesn't want to know about it.

What tends to happen with all sitcoms is the principals fall into a familial sort of relationship, and that happens in HH too, as improbable as it sounds. Despite all of the surface tension between Hogan and Klink, there was a surprising amount of informality. Hogan would stroll into Klink's office the way Kramer would walk in on Seinfeld, and he would just make himself at home like it was his office instead of Klink's. And Klink tolerated it. It was hardly realistic, but in a way, a comforting fantasy as so many period sitcoms are.

What makes it possible to like Klink is that at no time does he seem to be a Nazi ideologue or even particularly patriotic about the cause of the war. Sure, he pays lipservice to it when required, but he is ultimately just looking out for himself (the middle-manager analogy). Since Klink was usually manipulated like a puppet by Hogan on one end and browbeaten by his superiors on the other, there is a way to feel sorry for the guy. He is always one step away from being sent to the Russian front by the end of the episode.

It takes a lot of clever writing to suspend your natural predisposition to demonize anyone in the Nazi uniform and actually grow to like them on some level. It's just the power of the medium, which can be either harmless or dangerous depending on the circumstances.

 

[Melakon]

I'll add that to my "must see" list!

Nimoy's haircut is different from what he usually wore on earlier shows, and makes me think it must have been filmed around the time he did "The Cage".

 

[Silvercrest]

For the life of me, I thought the show did have a proper ending. Wasn't there an episode where they learned the war was over and the three main characters (Hogan, Klink and Schultz) ended up having a drink in Klink's office, discussing going back to civilian life...with it turning out that Schultz was actually the owner of a giant toy company and was probably going to end up being Klink's boss?

That was the episode "War Takes A Holiday," where they faked a radio broadcast that the war was over so that they could get Klink to release a couple of highly valuable prisoners.

What I found jarring was that the fake broadcast didn't mention which side was supposed to have won. And no one questioned it. I know sitcoms don't have to be 100% realistic, but come on!

The characters played it as "no harm, no foul, everyone just goes home." I suppose that's the best alternative if they had to sidestep the issue. It would complicate the writing a lot if either Klink or Hogan (or Hochstetter) was known to be on the winning side.

 

[Amaris]

What tends to happen with all sitcoms is the principals fall into a familial sort of relationship, and that happens in HH too, as improbable as it sounds. Despite all of the surface tension between Hogan and Klink, there was a surprising amount of informality. Hogan would stroll into Klink's office the way Kramer would walk in on Seinfeld, and he would just make himself at home like it was his office instead of Klink's. And Klink tolerated it. It was hardly realistic, but in a way, a comforting fantasy as so many period sitcoms are.

What makes it possible to like Klink is that at no time does he seem to be a Nazi ideologue or even particularly patriotic about the cause of the war. Sure, he pays lipservice to it when required, but he is ultimately just looking out for himself (the middle-manager analogy). Since Klink was usually manipulated like a puppet by Hogan on one end and browbeaten by his superiors on the other, there is a way to feel sorry for the guy. He is always one step away from being sent to the Russian front by the end of the episode.

It takes a lot of clever writing to suspend your natural predisposition to demonize anyone in the Nazi uniform and actually grow to like them on some level. It's just the power of the medium, which can be either harmless or dangerous depending on the circumstances.

True. I couldn't outright hate Klink. I couldn't even dislike him. I could certainly sympathize with his position. Klink was never comfortable with the Nazis, and it's obvious his devotion to Hitler was solely for appearances. I mean, if he really cared enough, he would have noticed the bug in the picture of Hitler on his wall, but it's clear he never gave it more than a moment's glance, if that.

There were even times when Klink genuinely complimented Hogan for one thing or another, and sometimes it did seem that Klink would try to find common ground with him, even though that didn't last because the show was primarily a comedy, and seeing the rug pulled from under Klink was always the inevitable result.

I'll add that to my "must see" list!

Nimoy's haircut is different from what he usually wore on earlier shows, and makes me think it must have been filmed around the time he did "The Cage".

Ah, yes, the Cage, where we see a shouting, smiling, alien from Vulcanis.

What I found jarring was that the fake broadcast didn't mention which side was supposed to have won. And no one questioned it. I know sitcoms don't have to be 100% realistic, but come on!

The characters played it as "no harm, no foul, everyone just goes home." I suppose that's the best alternative if they had to sidestep the issue. It would complicate the writing a lot if either Klink or Hogan (or Hochstetter) was known to be on the winning side.

You know, I never even thought about that. I wonder if anyone else noticed?

 

[Melakon]

Ah, yes, the Cage, where we see a shouting, smiling, alien from Vulcanis.

And keep an eye open for some of Nimoy's stage business in the UNCLE episode, that we later came to identify with Spock. There's also a good supporting cast, notably Woodrow Parfrey as one of Klemperer's spies. And then there's "Mr. Smith".

 

[Warped9]

There was a really well done (IMO) fan fiction that wrapped up the series and talked about the aftermath. I rather liked it. Its take was more serious than the show, but to me it resolved things satisfactorily. If you're interested, it's called "End Game," and you can get it here: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/421385/1/End-Game

As for the show itself, it's a shame that CBS just decided to cancel so many shows without even considering their popularity, because they wanted to appeal to the more "urban" crowd. I believe the idea was that anything with a tree in it was knocked off. That's how Green Acres and Beverly Hillbillies went off the air, too.

I've just read the first quarter of this fanfic story. It's more grim, serious minded and more drawn out than the actual series, but its still a damn good read. And I can easily hear the chatacters saying the written words.

That is a very long read, but it has a lot of interesting moments to it. One thing that stands out is the acknowledgement of the incidents by U.S. forces. That never would have flown on American television of the 1960s. Of course, there's quite a bit in this story that never would have made it on the series.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I couldn't outright hate Klink. I couldn't even dislike him. I could certainly sympathize with his position. Klink was never comfortable with the Nazis, and it's obvious his devotion to Hitler was solely for appearances. I mean, if he really cared enough, he would have noticed the bug in the picture of Hitler on his wall, but it's clear he never gave it more than a moment's glance, if that.

There were even times when Klink genuinely complimented Hogan for one thing or another, and sometimes it did seem that Klink would try to find common ground with him, even though that didn't last because the show was primarily a comedy, and seeing the rug pulled from under Klink was always the inevitable result.

Klink was not an evil man. Vain and bumbling, maybe; but I actually think he did care about the welfare of the prisoners under his control (even though he was obsessed with the supposed fact that no one had ever escaped).

 

[Warped9]

Klink, as annoying as he could be, strikes me as as someone who deperately wanted to be liked and respected (attributes that can sometimes be at odds) by others of note or authority. He was also also not a political person and was completely out of his element. He wanted to be recognized yet at the same time he tried also to stay out of trouble (again things that can be at odds). He simply didn't have the confidence and force of will to deal with those around him. It was amusing in the show when we could see Klink's superiors become just as bumbling with their own superiors. The difference was they had enough self-confidence, or arrogance, to bluff and bully their way through situations.

Klink was also basically a decent guy. He also simply didn't have any bit of killer instinct in him. Whatever he displayed was all empty bravado that folded like a tissue in a hurricane. He aptly represented a decent person trying to survive in a hellish atmosphere where loyalty and trust were practically nonexistent. Funny how Klink's best ally was Hogan who obviously exploited Klink's blind spots but also recognized Klink's sense of humanity.

Hogan was also a decent guy with a strong dose of fairness. The difference was Hogan had the smarts and the needed measure of killer instinct to do what needed to be done. He beat the Nazis through cunning and intelligence and exploiting their own arrogance and vanity as opposed to using similar brutality and force. He tricked his enemy to contribute to their own downfall.


Shultz was a treasure. He was everyman--the poor shmuck caught in a swamp of insanity. He harboured no ill to anyone and genuinely wanted everyone to live and let live. And while Shultz was played for laughs within context of the setting he couldn't have been that dense. He must have had at least some idea of what Hogan was doing. And by turning his back to Hogan's "monkey business" Shultz was backing Hogan to do what Shultz recognized needed to be done. There were times Shultz even expressed he hoped the Allies would win or that Hogan would take him along if/when Hogan ever escaped.


On the face of it Hogan's Heroes was a weird and absurd little show. But there really was a lot of neat stuff in it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And while Shultz was played for laughs within context of the setting he couldn't have been that dense. He must have had at least some idea of what Hogan was doing. And by turning his back to Hogan's "monkey business" Shultz was backing Hogan to do what Shultz recognized needed to be done. There were times Shultz even expressed he hoped the Allies would win or that Hogan would take him along if/when Hogan ever escaped.

Wasn't there one episode where Schultz is put in charge of the camp, but he is actually too good? Meaning, his running of the place is SO efficient that it doesn't allow Hogan to execute any of his normal plans, so they try desperately to make Schultz look bad so Klink will return to his command?

 

[Amaris]

Klink was not an evil man. Vain and bumbling, maybe; but I actually think he did care about the welfare of the prisoners under his control (even though he was obsessed with the supposed fact that no one had ever escaped).

Exactly so. I seem to recall the theme with the Gestapo was that Klink was never doing enough to discipline his prisoners. It was only his zero escape record that kept him in command of Stalag 13.

Klink, as annoying as he could be, strikes me as as someone who deperately wanted to be liked and respected (attributes that can sometimes be at odds) by others of note or authority. He was also also not a political person and was completely out of his element. He wanted to be recognized yet at the same time he tried also to stay out of trouble (again things that can be at odds). He simply didn't have the confidence and force of will to deal with those around him. It was amusing in the show when we could see Klink's superiors become just as bumbling with their own superiors. The difference was they had enough self-confidence, or arrogance, to bluff and bully their way through situations.

Klink was also basically a decent guy. He also simply didn't have any bit of killer instinct in him. Whatever he displayed was all empty bravado that folded like a tissue in a hurricane. He aptly represented a decent person trying to survive in a hellish atmosphere where loyalty and trust were practically nonexistent. Funny how Klink's best ally was Hogan who obviously exploited Klink's blind spots but also recognized Klink's sense of humanity.

Hogan was also a decent guy with a strong dose of fairness. The difference was Hogan had the smarts and the needed measure of killer instinct to do what needed to be done. He beat the Nazis through cunning and intelligence and exploiting their own arrogance and vanity as opposed to using similar brutality and force. He tricked his enemy to contribute to their own downfall.


Shultz was a treasure. He was everyman--the poor shmuck caught in a swamp of insanity. He harboured no ill to anyone and genuinely wanted everyone to live and let live. And while Shultz was played for laughs within context of the setting he couldn't have been that dense. He must have had at least some idea of what Hogan was doing. And by turning his back to Hogan's "monkey business" Shultz was backing Hogan to do what Shultz recognized needed to be done. There were times Shultz even expressed he hoped the Allies would win or that Hogan would take him along if/when Hogan ever escaped.


On the face of it Hogan's Heroes was a weird and absurd little show. But there really was a lot of neat stuff in it.

Very well said, and I completely agree.

And while Shultz was played for laughs within context of the setting he couldn't have been that dense. He must have had at least some idea of what Hogan was doing. And by turning his back to Hogan's "monkey business" Shultz was backing Hogan to do what Shultz recognized needed to be done. There were times Shultz even expressed he hoped the Allies would win or that Hogan would take him along if/when Hogan ever escaped.

Wasn't there one episode where Schultz is put in charge of the camp, but he is actually too good? Meaning, his running of the place is SO efficient that it doesn't allow Hogan to execute any of his normal plans, so they try desperately to make Schultz look bad so Klink will return to his command?

Yes, that was "Kommandant Schultz." It was a good metaphor for what happens when power corrupts. Even the warmest, and kindest person, can become cold and calculating when there's enough power behind them to give them what they want. It can start out innocently enough, but over time, more and more rationalization leads to more terrible choices. The episode illustrated that quite aptly.

The truth is, without Hogan and his crew, Schultz would likely have long been dead. He was a sweet, gentle man who couldn't truly harm a fly, and he was more likely to overlook mistakes than punish for them. I doubt that such a person who have lasted long in Nazi controlled Germany, but Hogan always made Schultz look good to the brass, which kept him there so they could use that good nature, but it did serve a two-fold purpose.

 

[Mister Fandango]

Personally I think it was a show just written for laughs.

But hey, I'm not a college professor desperately trying to justify my degree in Bullshitology.