History of Star Trek having no "money"

[Nyotarules]

Each crewmember has an account just for such occasions, like the one Doctor Crusher mentioned.

Crusher lied, she wanted a freebie and got it

 

[Tallguy]

Each crewmember has an account just for such occasions, like the one Doctor Crusher mentioned.

Does this account have limits?

 

[Lance]

They probably also keep some money on hand for the same reason; occasionally, Starfleet people will encounter those who do use money and it's the only thing they'll deal in. Maybe that's common enough practice among merchants that Uhura is aware of it, having bought, say, her green earrings from someone who also sold goods for money.

Having said that, I don't know where she got her money from, though; whether she sold something of hers, or perhaps performed a song on some non-Federation planet and was remunerated for doing so. Or perhaps Starfleet provides the crew in general with an allowance that wouldn't be considered an individual's pay, but rather a common purse crew members can dip into for just such an occurrence.

Which again comes back to the TNG era, where Dr Beverly Crusher uses just such an onboard credit/allowance to buy fabric in "Encounter At Farpoint", but then people just gloss over that as if it's just an anomaly in what is otherwise a Perfect-Utopian-Quasi-Socialist-Money-Free-Society.

EDIT: Just realized that FormerLurker got here before me with the Crusher thing.

In seriousness, in my view there's more than enough evidence to suggest that the second part of your post is the case: the crew don't clamour for nor accumulate money as such (they don't need to as part of their daily lives), but that for the purposes of transacting with the many and varied races that do, the Federation does operate some kind of economy, through which Starfleet officers can buy services or products as needed.

Another one I just remembered is TNG: "The Price" from the third season, by which time all this 'we don't use money in the future' stuff was allegedly set in stone, but where the Federation have put a monetary bid on the usage rights for the Barzan wormhole. So, they do use money. Just not on Earth. Maybe.

 

[Timewalker]

I can't believe they don't use money on Earth. What about all the people who refuse to use replicators? They have to get their food, beverages, and other stuff somehow.

It's not unreasonable to say that Earth doesn't have a cash-based economy (for legal transactions, anyway). It's ludicrous to say they have no economy.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I can't believe they don't use money on Earth. What about all the people who refuse to use replicators? They have to get their food, beverages, and other stuff somehow.

People like Picard's brother. His wife cooked their meals, they didn't replicate them. Wasn't it said in the same episode that their father didn't allow replicators either.

 

[Timewalker]

People like Picard's brother. His wife cooked their meals, they didn't replicate them. Wasn't it said in the same episode that their father didn't allow replicators either.

Exactly. I very much doubt Robert Picard just gave away the wine he made, or that Joseph Sisko just gave free meals to everyone who came to his restaurant.

 

[Tenacity]

where Dr Beverly Crusher uses just such an onboard credit/allowance to buy fabric in "Encounter At Farpoint"

I think Beverly (well most everybody) has an personal account that's independant of the Enterprise, but the Enterprise was the point of contact that Bev was using for her purchase. The Enterprise acted as Bev's "branch," and interfaced with the Bindi banking system, and transferred funds from Bev into the cloth merchant's business account.

While the ship that originally brought her was in orbit she would have accessed her account though it. With no ship in range, her account still could have been accessed through subspace communications, but there might have been a communications delay.

People like Picard's brother. His wife cooked their meals, they didn't replicate them. Wasn't it said in the same episode that their father didn't allow replicators either.

It doesn't make sense to me that the Picard familty would be getting replicated food from off their property, so either they were growing their own food, or they were purchasing it from businesses in the local area.

or that Joseph Sisko just gave free meals

I think Joe was charging for the food and drink he served.

 

[Timewalker]

I think Joe was charging for the food and drink he served.

I think so, too. He just wasn't getting paid in physical cash.

 

[WebLurker]

Thought on Starfleet officers getting a salary: In "Heart of Stone" (DS9), Sisko specially tells Nog that there's no monetary profit in joining Starfleet. So, we can safely assume that Starfleet characters are not getting a salary.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Or they don't make a lucrative profit from it, such as Ferengis would wish to make from anything they did for a killing. (I say "killing", not "living", because they want to be rich, not subsist.)

What about this exchange from "The Game"?

DATA: Geordi, a conflict has started between the planetary evolution team and the stellar physicists. Each wishes to be the first to use the thermal imaging array.
LAFORGE: Well, tell them to flip a coin. We've got to work together on this mission, otherwise we're never going to get it done.
DATA: A coin. Very good. I will replicate one immediately.

So generally they don't use coins and probably not paper cash. If you need coins for something, the value in credits is deducted from your account and converted into coin money when you make them. (so you don't create money out of nothing, but the value transfers from intangible to tangible.)

 

[Tenacity]

So, we can safely assume that Starfleet characters are not getting a salary

Well, a salary isn't a profit. It's a agreed upon regular payment as part of a contract. So I think Starfleet personnel would indeed receive a (bi-weekly/monthly) salary.

 

[soornge]

to really understand it i think younhave to (and since an election year good to) understand that there are no longer competitive markets because of one global goverment and economy : in theory once you eliminate floating economies, competitve markets, real politic, and the cost of storage and transportation of goods then. you elimante most of the cost of goods to begin with. the trith right now is that if globally we opened up a free exchange of goods and resources the earth can produce all that is needed to support the modern era : the only reason we have money is its easier than carrying around goods but if i can teansport five bags of rice to trade for a barrel of oil i dont need currency : if i say rice for you to eat is of the same value as you running all your cars for amonth so your job is to make oil and ill focus on making rice it works out nicely : horizontal integration works for lowering thenprice to market the problem is companies keeep the cost saving to make profit : really a good talknfor an election year because global economics effect every issue

 

[soornge]

Or the "not money" thing is just something that Picard keeps using owing to the fact that he is increadibly cheap.

Waiter: "Here is bill sir, I shall be your cashier."
Picard: "Oh ... haven't you heard? There no longer is money."
Waiter: "Look, just pay for your slugs and pancakes."
Picard: "It was escargot and crepes."

Waiter graps Picard by the ankles and skakes until credits cover the floor.

Waiter: "No money huh?"

i wonder if i can try that today at mcdonalds oh im from the future there is no money deuces

 

[Tenacity]

but if i can transport five bags of rice to trade for a barrel of oil i don't need currency

But there's the classic inevitable problem of what if the person with the barrel of oil doesn't want/need five bags of rice? You might be still able to exchange them at a substantial discount (five bags for a third of a barrel), or you would have to go through a large number of exchanges to eventual obtain what the oil supplier is hankering for (remember In the Cards?).

Better still, sell the rice for money, and then directly buy the oil you want.

 

[FormerLurker]

Correct. Money, or specifically currency, was invented so that people could barter intangibly, and not have to endanger their product bringing it physically to the market. Unless, of course, that the reason they were at the market was to provide their product to their customers.

 

[WebLurker]

Well, a salary isn't a profit. It's a agreed upon regular payment as part of a contract. So I think Starfleet personnel would indeed receive a (bi-weekly/monthly) salary.

The point of the DS9 conversation, though, is that a Starfleet career doesn't mesh with Ferengi ethics. If officers were paid, the problem wouldn't exist. (Also, First Contact does point out that Starfleet officers aren't paid in any form of money, digital or otherwise.)

 

[soornge]

seeiously promise star trek earth is socialist

 

[soornge]

i think the problem with understandinf is some reason the concept of work for work sake and the idea that you will enjoy waht you have an apptitude for is for some reason foriegn to modern america : truth is not everyone wants to be a rock star some people just want to play music because they like playing music didnt anyone learn amything from the beatles not everyone is the grateful dead lol

 

[Tenacity]

Also, First Contact does point out that Starfleet officers aren't paid in any form of money, digital or otherwise

HAH !!!!!

In FC, when Lily asked Picard if people got paid, Picard never said yes or no, he changed the subject. That "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives," doesn't mean Picard himself doesn't receive a salary every month.

 

[Lance]

HAH !!!!!

In FC, when Lily asked Picard if people got paid, Picard never said yes or no, he changed the subject. That "the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives," doesn't mean Picard himself doesn't receive a salary ever month.

True. Picard does say "money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century", but that statement could (as with many examples seen in Trek) simply mean a lack of physical currency. Or, perhaps, that he means Earth alone (Lily's field of reference only being Earth/humans) does not use it within it's own boundaries. The words are ambiguous enough to be interpreted either way. He goes on to say, "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives.", which again doesn't preclude the idea that, while the acquisition of wealth doesn't drive them or their lives, they may still require some form of salary in order to 'pay their way' around the galaxy.