Hey, I never noticed that before....

[Phaser Two]

My brother and I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s. There were a lot of WWII movies on TV in those days, and he studied up on the Nazis, so I’m sure he would be familiar with them. Random fact: Hugo Boss designed the SS uniforms.

Yeah, but I'm sure your brother isn't from about 320 years after the SS last wore their uniforms, and as a bonus, I doubt he's from another planet. And even if he were from an Earth-centered military organization from that future time period, I wouldn't expect him - much less both him and the closest-ranking officer in his unit, one of them an alien - to have studied Earth history to such an extent that they could identify rank insignia from Earth's comparatively ancient military forces with precision. (Particularly forces whose aesthetic, insignia, and even ranks themselves had only very tenuous connections to other historical military units, and familiarity with which would not really have any conceivable application to the officers' work duties - insert use-of-Paramount-costumes-as-basis-for-episode-joke here!) Now, if Kirk and Spock had been U.S. military officers in the late 1960s, maybe they would know SS (and Gestapo) ranks by sight. Maybe.

There wasn't really any convenient way around this in the script, but I did find it interesting.

As for Hugo Boss, he wasn't a designer. His company apparently (and sadly) may well have produced some of the SS uniforms, though.

 

[VSAFaculty]

As for Hugo Boss, he wasn't a designer. His company apparently (and sadly) may well have produced some of the SS uniforms, though.

You’re right. My bad.

 

[Henoch]

There wasn't really any convenient way around this in the script, but I did find it interesting.

They can have brain implants that contain a future version of Wikipedia (but with corrupted files of the later WWIII period or maybe "rewritten" history (i.e. propaganda) implanted by one the dystopian governments that ruled after the war. Maybe?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Watching "Errand of Mercy". Kor's name is pronounce "Koor" rather than "Core". I think in DS9 is became "Core".

 

[Mytran]

Watching "Errand of Mercy". Kor's name is pronounce "Koor" rather than "Core". I think in DS9 is became "Core".

Nah, Kor was just going through his bohemian phase in the 2260s

 

[flandry84]

Canonically both Kirk and Spock studied under John Gill.
Gill had a demonstrable “penchant” for the Nazi era.Perhaps their knowledge about uniforms etc was down to that time.

 

[Phaser Two]

Canonically both Kirk and Spock studied under John Gill.
Gill had a demonstrable “penchant” for the Nazi era.Perhaps their knowledge about uniforms etc was down to that time.

Pretty sure he wasn't teaching SS insignia and regalia at Starfleet Academy - and if he was, it probably wouldn't have been as surprising as it was that he introduced Nazi principles to Ekos. In fact, Kirk and Spock should have made the Gill-Nazi emulation connection within about the first five minutes of the episode. "Hey, spiffy uniform - so you're a lieutenant, and I remember that because I took that class from-----HEY, WAIT A SEC!!!"

 

[flandry84]

Long time since I watched that episode,one which I find rather dispiriting.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Pretty sure he wasn't teaching SS insignia and regalia at Starfleet Academy - and if he was, it probably wouldn't have been as surprising as it was that he introduced Nazi principles to Ekos. In fact, Kirk and Spock should have made the Gill-Nazi emulation connection within about the first five minutes of the episode.

It may have been something they gleaned in their studies, particularly if the Nazi/WWII unit was a major one. Gill may be an expert on the subject, but he's certainly not the only one.

 

[flandry84]

You would imagine that when Spock studies a topic,he really studies a subject.
Kirk too is a fiend for detail...(among other things).

Enough please on a distasteful subject.

 

[Phaser Two]

You would imagine that when Spock studies a topic,he really studies a subject.
Kirk too is a fiend for detail...(among other things).

Enough please on a distasteful subject.

I found it interesting. You're under no obligation to reply and AFAIK don't control the discourse here.

 

[PCz911]

You’re right. My bad.

I didn’t realize that Hugo boss and his company were involved in all that nasty business. Thru the miracle of Wikipedia I see that Hugo was, indeed, an avid nazi member … but he did not design the uniform.
Learn something new everyday

 

[Nerys Myk]

I can actually see some of the texture of the material used for various uniforms. Never noticed it in the past. Especially in the broadcast days.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

It may have been something they gleaned in their studies, particularly if the Nazi/WWII unit was a major one. Gill may be an expert on the subject, but he's certainly not the only one.

I seriously, seriously doubt that there is a class in Starfleet academy focussed on the rank insignia of 200 year old fascist regimes.

Why would there be? Of what possible, practical use would that be for the average Starfleet officer? How on Earth is it in any way, shape or form relevant in terms of learning how to live and work aboard a starship?

 

[VSAFaculty]

I seriously, seriously doubt that there is a class in Starfleet academy focussed on the rank insignia of 200 year old fascist regimes.

Why would there be? Of what possible, practical use would that be for the average Starfleet officer? How on Earth is it in any way, shape or form relevant in terms of learning how to live and work aboard a starship?

While there might not be a class on rank insignia, that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be a class on Nazi Germany. Currently, there are at least 92 history courses taught at West Point, including ancient and medieval warfare, even though no one uses a trebuchet anymore. As a one time history major, I can tell you that it’s as much about learning how to think critically as it is about names, dates, and places.

https://courses.westpoint.edu/static/index.htm#t=History.htm&rhsearch=History&rhhlterm=history

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Of what possible, practical use would that be for the average Starfleet officer? How on Earth is it in any way, shape or form relevant in terms of learning how to live and work aboard a starship?

When I was watching Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and they would face an insanely unlikely peril (almost any color episode), I used to think, the Navy should show this one in submariner school and tell the guys, "You have to be ready for this." That would be funny.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

While there might not be a class on rank insignia, that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be a class on Nazi Germany. Currently, there are at least 92 history courses taught at West Point, including ancient and medieval warfare, even though no one uses a trebuchet anymore. As a one time history major, I can tell you that it’s as much about learning how to think critically as it is about names, dates, and places.

https://courses.westpoint.edu/static/index.htm#t=History.htm&rhsearch=History&rhhlterm=history

Sure. I did a Twentieth Century history course over 8 months and how can WWII not be in there? Over a month and a half I think we covered the depresssion in Germany, how Hitler rose to power and then basically everything from the initial annexations right up to Hiroshima and Nagasaki through to Nuremberg.

At no point did we get deep into rank insignia though. At no point were we expected to memorise anything like that.

Speaking as a teacher, I think it would be quite a weird detail to get into in a history class.

Mostly like my students, quite rightly, would question why they had to learn something like that. It’s background detail that is only applicable in a tiny, tiny minority of situations in the TOS world.

Not denying they might learn about WWII, but that entails learning about prominent figures, events, causes and dates. Minutiae like rank insignia is the province of the enthusiast or the fanatic.

It is what it is. I still rather enjoy Patterns of Force.

 

[flandry84]

I found it interesting. You're under no obligation to reply and AFAIK don't control the discourse here.

Sorry if that came across as snippy.Completely not my intention.

 

[FormerLurker]

Sure. I did a Twentieth Century history course over 8 months and how can WWII not be in there? Over a month and a half I think we covered the depresssion in Germany, how Hitler rose to power and then basically everything from the initial annexations right up to Hiroshima and Nagasaki through to Nuremberg.

At no point did we get deep into rank insignia though. At no point were we expected to memorise anything like that.

Speaking as a teacher, I think it would be quite a weird detail to get into in a history class.

Mostly like my students, quite rightly, would question why they had to learn something like that. It’s background detail that is only applicable in a tiny, tiny minority of situations in the TOS world.

Not denying they might learn about WWII, but that entails learning about prominent figures, events, causes and dates. Minutiae like rank insignia is the province of the enthusiast or the fanatic.

It is what it is. I still rather enjoy Patterns of Force.

It's more likely that part of the curriculum was learning the differences between the Allied and Axis uniforms and insignia, with a side of "here's this chart, memorize it if you want to".

 

[fireproof78]

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